God Proven to Exist According to Mainstream Physics

[TER]

Ok, but was that experience something other than reality?

Great question! I think this goes into symbolism and such, that is, the true meaning of symbols as understood by first century Jews and Christians since then, which is that a symbol is not a mere illustration, but the very presence of what it is symbolically demonstrating. It was most definitely in a mysterious way reality when Moses experienced the vision.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm not sure what Moses meant by a 'day'. I don't really care either. Not a major concern for me. I am happy to find out on the Last Day, which is the day I am much more concerned about.

I actually disagree, and I think it is important because it affects the inerrancy of the word of God, which I assume you are trying to spread. Saying that you need an expert to tell you what "day" means and then claiming that death came before sin really affects how many people you are going to convince. What you're doing is compromising the word of the Bible with what you were told is "science" when this is not only unnecessary but blasphemous. If the meaning of the word "day" can be questioned, then what can't?

You're not going to win many souls if you keep telling people that God is a bumbling idiot who can't do it right the first time and has to do it through this long process of trial and error even when there's no scientific evidence for evolution in the first place. You're compromising a perfectly good account by claiming it's not God's word, it's Moses's, and that God did something other than what Moses said he did.

Remember, you're supposed to have an answer for the skeptics even when they ask questions that you don't deem as important as others.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Great question! I think this goes into symbolism and such, that is, the true meaning of symbols as understood by first century Jews and Christians since then, which is that a symbol is not a mere illustration, but the very presence of what it is symbolically demonstrating. It was most definitely in a mysterious way reality when Moses experienced the vision.

I cannot decipher what you're saying here. How can something "mysteriously" be reality? Was it reality or wasn't it? Is the account in the Bible wrong about what God actually did?

 

[TER]

I actually disagree, and I think it is important because it affects the inerrancy of the word of God, which I assume you are trying to spread. Saying that you need an expert to tell you what "day" means and then claiming that death came before sin really affects how many people you are going to convince. What you're doing is compromising the word of the Bible with what you were told is "science" when this is not only unnecessary but blasphemous. If the meaning of the word "day" can be questioned, then what can't?

You're not going to win many souls if you keep telling people that God is a bumbling idiot who can't do it right the first time and has to do it through this long process of trial and error even when there's no scientific evidence for evolution in the first place. You're compromising a perfectly good account by claiming it's not God's word, it's Moses's, and that God did something other than what Moses said he did.

Remember, you're supposed to have an answer for the skeptics even when they ask questions that you don't deem as important as others.

It is okay if you disagree with me. The blasphemous accusation I think was a little overboard, but that's okay.

Tell me then, how do you understand the Genesis story was recorded and written down?

 

[TER]

Is the account in the Bible wrong about what God actually did?

No, the account according to the vision experienced by Moses was exactly right, as he experienced it.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

It is okay if you disagree with me. The blasphemous accusation I think was a little overboard, but that's okay.

Tell me then, how do you understand the Genesis story was recorded and written down?

It was probably written down as you said, but I don't think Moses got it wrong. I believe he was inspired with the actual truth, not just the truth as he saw it with his limited perspective.

When you say that something in the Bible is different from what God actually meant to say, you challenge the inerrancy of scripture, and I think that's a serious thing and you have to realize that. I see you're filled with a lot of inner peace, but maybe you should be a little more unsettled about what you're saying because it has real consequences.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

No, the account according to the vision experienced by Moses was exactly right, as he experienced it.

That's not what I asked.

I am asking you if it was exactly right as God experienced it. Is what God did something other than what Moses perceived from his experience?

 

[TER]

It was probably written down as you said, but I don't think Moses got it wrong. I believe he was inspired with the actual truth, not just the truth as he saw it with his limited perspective.

Yes, we both agree he was inspired. I am asking you how it was recorded and written down. Did God whisper in his ear? Did God take over his writing hand and wrote it down? That is what I am asking from you.

When you say that something in the Bible is different from what God actually meant to say, you challenge the inerrancy of scripture, and I think that's a serious thing and you have to realize that. I see you're filled with a lot of inner peace, but maybe you should be a little more unsettled about what you're saying because it has real consequences.

I don't think I am putting any tension between what the Bible says and what God said. I think I may be putting tension in your intepretation, but I wholeheartedly believe the Genesis story was written down as God willed it in His ineffable wisdom.

 

[TER]

That's not what I asked.

I am asking you if it was exactly right as God experienced it. Is what God did something other than what Moses perceived from his experience?

As God experienced it? Do you know what God experiences?

God created the universe. In time, He gave a vision to Moses who wrote down what he experienced. Seems pretty simple.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

As God experienced it? Do you know what God experiences?

God created the universe. In time, He gave a vision to Moses who wrote down what he experienced. Seems pretty simple.

I would assume God wants that experience to be accurate, correct? If you believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, then you must believe that what is recorded in the Bible is what actually happened as God experienced it.

 

[DamianTV]

This is not Mainstream Physics. This is twisting reality to suit ones perceptions, not altering ones perceptions to understand reality. Or biased conclusions that looks for anything that scan support the conclusion itself, much the same way as Police do with first entering into a confrontation, then making the arrested guilty of being arrested, thereby making the innocent guilty.

Real Science makes Real Discoveries, and this is not Real Science. Sorry, but that is my two cents, and it isnt intended to discredit or disparage anyone for their beliefs, just discrediting this specific idea.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Yes, we both agree he was inspired. I am asking you how it was recorded and written down. Did God whisper in his ear? Did God take over his writing hand and wrote it down? That is what I am asking from you.

I don't know exactly what he did, but I would assume that he verified that it was correct somehow, no?

I don't think I am putting any tension between what the Bible says and what God said. I think I may be putting tension in your intepretation, but I wholeheartedly believe the Genesis story was written down as God willed it in His ineffable wisdom.

Ok, but I'm just wondering why you keep saying that the stars were created after the earth because that's what Moses experienced instead of saying that that's what actually happened. You do believe the stars were created after the earth, don't you?

 

[TER]

I would assume God wants that experience to be accurate, correct? If you believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, then you must believe that what is recorded in the Bible is what actually happened as God experienced it.

That experience Moses received was exactly as God wanted him to receive it.

I am still waiting to find out how you think Moses received it and then wrote it down.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

This is not Mainstream Physics. This is twisting reality to suit ones perceptions, not altering ones perceptions to understand reality. Or biased conclusions that looks for anything that scan support the conclusion itself, much the same way as Police do with first entering into a confrontation, then making the arrested guilty of being arrested, thereby making the innocent guilty.

Real Science makes Real Discoveries, and this is not Real Science. Sorry, but that is my two cents, and it isnt intended to discredit or disparage anyone for their beliefs, just discrediting this specific idea.

This is math, not science. Two completely different subjects.

How do you know it's twisting reality? Did you read it?

 

[PaulConventionWV]

That experience Moses received was exactly as God wanted him to receive it.

I am still waiting to find out how you think Moses received it and then wrote it down.

Post #232 above.

 

[TER]

Post #232 above.

Just saw it.

So you don't know how Moses received it. Well, that is a good and honest answer.

How does the Bible end? The final book of the Bible, which explains the end of creation, is similar to the first book. Can you guess what I mean?

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Just saw it.

So you don't know how Moses received it. Well, that is a good and honest answer.

How does the Bible end? The final book of the Bible, which explains the end of creation, is similar to the first book. Can you guess what I mean?

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

 

[TER]

This is not Mainstream Physics. This is twisting reality to suit ones perceptions, not altering ones perceptions to understand reality. Or biased conclusions that looks for anything that scan support the conclusion itself, much the same way as Police do with first entering into a confrontation, then making the arrested guilty of being arrested, thereby making the innocent guilty.

Real Science makes Real Discoveries, and this is not Real Science. Sorry, but that is my two cents, and it isnt intended to discredit or disparage anyone for their beliefs, just discrediting this specific idea.

God reveals Himself in science. He also gave some revelations many thousands of years ago too.

 

[TER]

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

What is the final book of the Bible?

 

[PaulConventionWV]

What is the final book of the Bible?

Revelations.