God damn every one who pooh-poohed and denounced the 6 Jan Capital action

[Brian4Liberty]

A Trump supporter beat a police officer to death with a fire extinguisher. While I don't think that's worse than some of the stuff Antifa did, it's certainly no better.

That seemed the exception, but absolutely murder. The reports said he was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher, and walked away from that and died later. Not exactly “beat to death” but certainly died. Did they catch the guy? No doubt if they catch him, he will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

 

[phill4paul]

That seemed the exception, but absolutely murder. The reports said he was hit in the head with a fire extinguisher, and walked away from that and died later. Not exactly “beat to death” but certainly died. Did they catch the guy? No doubt if they catch him, he will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Last I had heard was that the cause of death wasn't determinable and the family asked that political conjecture not be injected into a family matter.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

A Trump supporter beat a police officer to death with a fire extinguisher. While I don't think that's worse than some of the stuff Antifa did, it's certainly no better.

Last I had heard was that the cause of death wasn't determinable and the family asked that political conjecture not be injected into a family matter.

Ok, now I had to look it up. Found video at the link. “Beat to death” is not what happened. Some dumb ass threw a fire extinguisher, which seemed to bounce off a cops helmet, and may have clipped an unhelmetted cop in the head after that. But which of those is the cop that died later? Neither of them showed any signs of injury at the time.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/11/video-shows-capitol-rioter-hit-officer-with-fire-extinguisher/

Anyway, we are going off topic.

Edit:

Can’t even find any evidence that the dead officer was hit by a fire extinguisher or hit at all.

In a statement released by the family, they say that “many details regarding Wednesday’s events and the direct causes of Brian’s injuries remain unknown and our family asks the public and the press to respect our wishes in not making Brian’s passing a political issue.”

Capitol Police say that Sicknick did respond to Wednesday’s riots outside the Capitol but had returned to his office before collapsing.

He was taken to a hospital, where he died at 9:30 p.m. Thursday, police said.

Sources familiar with the incident believe that Sicknick’s death was driven by a medical condition.
...
https://www.lawofficer.com/family-o...ys-cause-is-unknown-stop-making-it-political/

No doubt whatever happened was stressful. He could have been hit at some point. Some people have unknown conditions and all they need is a trigger, even a rise in blood pressure can pop something or break away a clot.

 

[phill4paul]

Ok, now I had to look it up. Found video at the link. “Beat to death” is not what happened. Some dumb ass threw a fire extinguisher, which seemed to bounce off a cops helmet, and may have clipped an unhelmetted cop in the head after that. But which of those is the cop that died later? Neither of them showed any signs of injury at the time.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/11/video-shows-capitol-rioter-hit-officer-with-fire-extinguisher/

Anyway, we are going off topic.

A law-enforcement officer shot and killed an unarmed individual presumably for trespassing. Has the officer been named? Charged?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

A law-enforcement officer shot and killed an unarmed individual presumably for trespassing. Has the officer been named? Charged?

Some officer related shootings are more equal than others...

 

[phill4paul]

Some officer related shootings are more equal than others...

https://history.house.gov/Collection/Detail/15032406762

 

[asurfaholic]

A Trump supporter beat a police officer to death with a fire extinguisher. While I don't think that's worse than some of the stuff Antifa did, it's certainly no better.

Was it a trump supporter? Seems suspicious, but finding reliable sources for what happened that day has been near impossible.

 

[69360]

Let's list some of the actions of these two different groups...

Antifa/BLM:

- Burn down buildings.
- Loot.
- Throw rocks, bricks and Molotov cocktails.
- Use explosives.
- Attacks random people in vehicles and in the streets.
- Block freeways and roadways.
- Turn over and burn vehicles, especially Police vehicles.
- Shoot at people, sometimes kill people.
- Vandalize and graffiti nearly everything.
- Destroy statues and monuments.
- Trespass.
- Attack their peers and local businesses and services.
- Do the bidding of the leftist establishment.


Trump-Q supporters:

- Trespass.
- Very mild vandalism (breaking some windows).
- Attacked a seat of power, scaring the powerful.
- Oppose the leftist establishment.


The highlighted items are the most important and relevant.

Both sides of this are criminals and useful idiots for the respective left and right overlords. They both need to go to prison. But yeah the trumpkins were less violent.

 

[TheTexan]

I take a nuanced view of this. There are 5 different Republican / Conservative / Libertarian reactions to the Biden "win."

1) Yippee! (The Lincoln Project. We'll dismiss them as traitors. While I'm not a Trump fan I am not happy about a Biden win).

2) Well...that's too bad. But it was a free and far election. Best election ever. (William Barr apparently. Wasn't Trump great at cabinet picks? /sarcasm)

3) There may have been fraud, but Trump's lawyers never brought forward solid evidence. (Tucker Carlson. And considering what I have recently learned about the Giuliani defamation lawsuit, Tucker might be right on this. There were solid arguments Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell could have made, but instead they went full retard).

4) There was definitely fraud, we have evidence of it, I won't make any definite statement one way or another on whether or not the fraud was stolen, we should go ahead with certifying the election, but we need look into the fraud later. (That's Rand Paul. And I happen to agree with him.)

5) The election was DEFINITELY STOLEN and we must do whatever is in our power to defend the Republic! (Alex Jones and others).

Now, I have no problem with positions 3 and 4. I've got some issue with position 5 but good people can disagree on that. But I do have a problem with people who took position 5 and then didn't stand with the people they gassed up. If you weren't out there saying "It's the end of the Republic if we don't reverse the outcome of this election" and you weren't pushing some "secret plan" that culminated on January 6th, then you bear no responsibility for those who decided to take action on January 6th. And if you want to be able to denounce the Antifa riots, and Rand recently did, you can't do that without calling out violence coming from the right.

I'm of the opinion that the evidence is overwhelming that if election laws were followed, and the illegal ballots were thrown out, that Trump would win overwhelmingly. By "illegal ballots" I mean ballots that were counted in a manner inconsistent with the law; e.g. observer laws. It's extremely well documented that entire buildings in certain counties (e.g. Detroit's TCF Center) were not counting ballots in a manner consistent with law. As such those ballots should be thrown out, because they are by state law illegal. And these are 100's of thousands of ballots in some counties - easily enough to tip the election.

Despite the massive amounts of proof that we have that election laws were broken; do I think that massive fraud occurred in cities like Detroit? I really have no idea. I would suspect yes but I have no proof of massive fraud. It's impossible to know if there was massive fraud, without an audit, and its made further more difficult by the election workers not recording challenges and such.

If the election workers in Detroit's TCF Center had just followed the law, would Biden have still won in those states? Again - I do not know.

But what I do know is that their behavior should not be tolerated.

Even if there was zero fraud at all in these Democrat cities, I would still say the election was stolen, because the law simply was not followed, and further, the kind of behavior that they showed should not be rewarded with election victory.

The simple fact that none of these claims ever had a fair trial, means that the election was stolen. If a man was executed without trial, that would be a wrongful execution, regardless of whether or not he was guilty. So, yes, the election was stolen.

63 court cases yet there were 0 audits. Do the math.

 

[phill4paul]

63 court cases yet there were 0 audits. Do the math.

THIS. A recount of illegal ballots =/= an audit.

 

[jmdrake]

How can Bush/Gore go to SCOTUS but Trump cannot get heard? This has to get settled. How can a State or County refuse to allow the ballots from being inspected? Election laws changed illegally? Too much to mandate dismissal. Cannot utter Election Fraud?

You know what? That's a good question. Answering that would require reading through the pleadings in all of the lawsuits. But in all the cases the Plaintiffs ultimately lost. If Trump was arguing the same issue that Gore lost on one could argue that there was less of a reason to hear the Trump lawsuits because the issue was already decided. But from my understanding the issues being argued were quite different. I agree with Rand that the fraud question needs to be further scrutinized.

4.5) I don't know if there was enough fraud, but there sure as hell was a bending of the rules to benefit one candidate over the other! And I don't have a problem with civil unrest as I think it's the voice of the unheard - whether that be BLM or Stop the Steal, but dammit, get your $#@! together and understand what you're trying to accomplish!!!

Fully agree with the "understand what you're trying to accomplish" part of it. There are all sorts of real issues to address from the fact that in 2019 prominent Democrats were raising concerns about Dominion voting machines to the question of why Pennsylvania did away with the signature verification rule for absentee voting.

I think I fall about 3 or so.

Yeah...I'm kind of 3/4. There was decent evidence and I don't know if Trump's lawyers put any of that in or not but they certainly shoved some pure crap into the "kracken."

 

[phill4paul]

You know what? That's a good question. Answering that would require reading through the pleadings in all of the lawsuits. But in all the cases the Plaintiffs ultimately lost. If Trump was arguing ..

Texas argued.

 

[jmdrake]

Texas argued.

Right. That was one of the lawsuits. I lost track of how many others there were. Was Trump listed as a plaintiff in any of the lawsuits?

 

[jmdrake]

I'm of the opinion that the evidence is overwhelming that if election laws were followed, and the illegal ballots were thrown out, that Trump would win overwhelmingly. By "illegal ballots" I mean ballots that were counted in a manner inconsistent with the law; e.g. observer laws. It's extremely well documented that entire buildings in certain counties (e.g. Detroit's TCF Center) were not counting ballots in a manner consistent with law. As such those ballots should be thrown out, because they are by state law illegal. And these are 100's of thousands of ballots in some counties - easily enough to tip the election.

Despite the massive amounts of proof that we have that election laws were broken; do I think that massive fraud occurred in cities like Detroit? I really have no idea. I would suspect yes but I have no proof of massive fraud. It's impossible to know if there was massive fraud, without an audit, and its made further more difficult by the election workers not recording challenges and such.

If the election workers in Detroit's TCF Center had just followed the law, would Biden have still won in those states? Again - I do not know.

But what I do know is that their behavior should not be tolerated.

Even if there was zero fraud at all in these Democrat cities, I would still say the election was stolen, because the law simply was not followed, and further, the kind of behavior that they showed should not be rewarded with election victory.

The simple fact that none of these claims ever had a fair trial, means that the election was stolen. If a man was executed without trial, that would be a wrongful execution, regardless of whether or not he was guilty. So, yes, the election was stolen.

63 court cases yet there were 0 audits. Do the math.

Okay. You would agree that stealing an election is a crime right? Well someone accused of a crime is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. So going by your death penalty analogy, if there was evidence that someone committed murder but he was never tried and hence never punished you wouldn't say he was guilty right? If charges were brought against him but dropped because of procedural technicalities, again you wouldn't say he was guilty right? There have been charges brought in civil court that the "crime" of stealing an election happened. So far, to my knowledge, they have all been tossed on procedural grounds. I was looking forward to the defamation trial against Giuliani and Powell because in such a case the evidence of a stolen election, which might be exculpatory, can't be thrown out. But Giuliani, and possibly Powell, did such a horrible job presenting their case in the court of public opinion that they might actually LOSE the defamation lawsuit which would be a shame because people will use that as "proof" that the election was really "free and fair."

 

[TheTexan]

Okay. You would agree that stealing an election is a crime right? Well someone accused of a crime is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. So going by your death penalty analogy, if there was evidence that someone committed murder but he was never tried and hence never punished you wouldn't say he was guilty right? If charges were brought against him but dropped because of procedural technicalities, again you wouldn't say he was guilty right? There have been charges brought in civil court that the "crime" of stealing an election happened. So far, to my knowledge, they have all been tossed on procedural grounds. I was looking forward to the defamation trial against Giuliani and Powell because in such a case the evidence of a stolen election, which might be exculpatory, can't be thrown out. But Giuliani, and possibly Powell, did such a horrible job presenting their case in the court of public opinion that they might actually LOSE the defamation lawsuit which would be a shame because people will use that as "proof" that the election was really "free and fair."

I don't really disagree with you which is why I respect Rand's position.

But if I were a juror in your hypothetical election stealing trial, I would vote to convict.

 

[Contumacious]

I agree with SCOTUS that Texas had no standing to bring that suit.

I disagree with SCOTUS - Texas had standing to bring that suit.

 

[Contumacious]

Pretty $#@!ing sad that a queeer hairdresser from NYC has more balls than most of the chest thumping blowhards around this country.

This is the story of Brandon Straka, currently under arrest and most likely on his way to life in prison as a political prisoner.

These are since deleted screenshots of $#@!ter comments Straka made on 6 Jan while occupying the Pig Sty in DC are part of his arrest record.





https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/breaking-fbi-agents-arrest-walkaway-founder-brandon-straka/

And there you have it.

God damn the weak, vacillating, Quislings and collaborators, but what's new there, amirite? Nothing new expected from that $#@!ing crowd... but triple god damn the chest thumping gorillas that for years have made a comfortable living shouting their bull$#@! about "1776" and revolution and when an event that can only be described as a grassroots uprising happens right in front of us all, within hours piss their pants and denounce it and run away, and start throwing up bull$#@! conspiracies because it upsets the status quo and that comfortable living I just mentioned.

Alex Jones, I'm looking right at your dumb, fat ass.

I've defended you for decades, listened to your show, contributed to various causes of yours...no more.

$#@! you, you're dead to me, and all the rest just like you.

I suspect that a public "defender" was assigned to him and was encouraged to accept the blame and make that asinine statement.

Sad

 

[CaptUSA]

I don't really disagree with you which is why I respect Rand's position.

But if I were a juror in your hypothetical election stealing trial, I would vote to convict.

Love it when The Texan has to break character!

 

[dannno]

I've stayed mostly neutral, not that there is anything morally wrong regarding storming a government Capitol full of criminals, but I also think it was a false flag designed to end the debate on vote fraud, sneak in Joe Biden and brand Trump supporters as terrorists. So, might not have been the best strategy and the optics were pretty bad.

There have already been two antifa/BLM rioters positively identified at the front lines trying to instigate, and the boogaloo boys (who recently joined up with BLM and are anti-Trump) had admitted involvement in the incident as well. No doubt there were countless others, who were not Trump supporters, doing damage and causing the breach. I saw many Trump supporters try to stop them.

Once the breaches occurred, many Trump supporters went into the building, thinking it was more of a first amendment activity than a raid.

 

[jmdrake]

Ok, now I had to look it up. Found video at the link. “Beat to death” is not what happened. Some dumb ass threw a fire extinguisher, which seemed to bounce off a cops helmet, and may have clipped an unhelmetted cop in the head after that. But which of those is the cop that died later? Neither of them showed any signs of injury at the time.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/11/video-shows-capitol-rioter-hit-officer-with-fire-extinguisher/

Anyway, we are going off topic.

Edit:

Can’t even find any evidence that the dead officer was hit by a fire extinguisher or hit at all.



No doubt whatever happened was stressful. He could have been hit at some point. Some people have unknown conditions and all they need is a trigger, even a rise in blood pressure can pop something or break away a clot.

Well this video shows a different officer being dragged into the crowd and beaten. Thankfully he didn't die.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le07VPqBZ58&bpctr=1611868263