GMO labeling on the Ballot in Oregon

[specsaregood]

Sometimes, in order to win, you have to play their game, and use their rules against them.

meh, I'd rather argue to remove the labeling mandate, I mean that's the freedom position. But whatever, I have few problems with this being done at the state level, let them reap their own pain.

 

[angelatc]

Ah, the bitter tears of the anti-science, pro government crowd .... sweeter than aspartame!

 

[Natural Citizen]

Ah, the bitter tears of the anti-science, pro government crowd .... sweeter than aspartame!

Hey, what's up, sunshine. How you doing these days?

 

[Deborah K]

Well. The thing is that the issue is ultimately going to be decided at the geo-political level anyhow. It really is a matter of foreign policy now. (If you find the time maybe check out the "Monsanto In Foreign Policy" thread in the foreign policy sub forum here.) Domestically, the people will ultimately win based upon that alone. But I do agree with you. Really, people just aren't as smart as they like to think they are and so we get more ad-hominem as a retaliatory thing as opposed to actually discussing it like big boys and girls.

You know, I was just thinking about that bill that the Koch network along with Monsanto scribbled up and paid congressman pompeo to try to pass through. What that did was void the peoples right to ever know what they were eating and it also voided the state's ability to protect it's people from government intrusion. What this essentially did was protect these companies from the free market since people simply wouldn't have a means to choose without labels. Now we didn't hear a peep aboput this mercantilist tyranny from the folks running around yapping about statism. I thought that was funny. Got me to chuckling a bit. There's a thread around here some place about that. I made sure of it.

Maybe you should find it and post it in here as a gentle reminder of the double-standard being practiced.

 

[Deborah K]

Ah, the bitter tears of the anti-science, pro government crowd .... sweeter than aspartame!

Don't paint me with that brush, Angie.

 

[Deborah K]

meh, I'd rather argue to remove the labeling mandate, I mean that's the freedom position. But whatever, I have few problems with this being done at the state level, let them reap their own pain.

When you're going up against the behemoths, you fight with whatever tools are at your disposal.

 

[angelatc]

You bet it's already being done!! This godforsaken state I live in just pulled Red Raspberry leaf supplement off the shelf because the producers are now being mandated to add in the labeling that it has trace amounts of led.

(no more than what's in the dirt we grow our food in, mind you). And so now, the ONE ingredient that was controlling night sweats and hot flashes for me is off the shelf until all the labels are changed. But the bastards won't label GMO food!!!

There are literally millions of studies that indicate that lead is toxic. Obvious difference is obvious.

But now you want the same people that are pulling your supplement of choice off the shelf to get even more people hysterical over absolutely nothing? Does not compute.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Maybe you should find it and post it in here as a gentle reminder of the double-standard being practiced.

Meh. What's to be had? Like I said, the issue is at the geo-political level now. Domestically, these companies are going to conform to the reality of this. Mon santo just took almost a 200 million dollar 4th quarter loss and shares dropped significantly. And we're starting to see them begin to sue each other so the in-fighting has begun. Will continue as the issue evolves abroad and other nations restructure. Specifically the competitive non-gmo nations and those reorganizing mechanisms for international finance clearing that align with that.

 

[donnay]

Do you really want to go with the "its already being done" argument in order to promote a govt mandate? Might want to think that through...

You use their rules so it blows right back at them. It also helps to wake up many more people to the very hypocrisy they spew. After all, isn't it about informing the people?

 

[donnay]

 

[Deborah K]

There are literally millions of studies that indicate that lead is toxic. Obvious difference is obvious.

But now you want the same people that are pulling your supplement of choice off the shelf to get even more people hysterical over absolutely nothing? Does not compute.

I can pull up a library of scientific evidence that fluoride is poisonous too, and yet it's in water and toothpaste. I'm against the double-standard playing out on these issues. On the one hand, everyone is thrilled that weed is legal, on the other, they freak out because some of us expect some consistency when it comes to labeling wtf is in our food.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I can pull up a library of scientific evidence that fluoride is poisonous too, and yet it's in water and toothpaste. I'm against the double-standard playing out on these issues. On the one hand, everyone is thrilled that weed is legal, on the other, they freak out because some of us expect some consistency when it comes to labeling wtf is in our food.

Munchies are probably just munchies when yer stoned. Anything edible. You know? Heh...

Seriously, though. It is a quirky bit of a double standard.

 

[COpatriot]

Failed in Colorado.

 

[Lucille]

Genetically Modified Organisms Risk Global Ruin, Says Black Swan Author Nassim Taleb
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...obal-Ruin-Says-Black-Swan-Author-Nassim-Taleb

We present a non-naive version of the Precautionary (PP) that allows us to avoid paranoia and paralysis by confining precaution to specific domains and problems. PP is intended to deal with uncertainty and risk in cases where the absence of evidence and the incompleteness of scientific knowledge carries profound implications and in the presence of risks of "black swans", unforeseen and unforeseable events of extreme consequence. We formalize PP, placing it within the statistical and probabilistic structure of ruin problems, in which a system is at risk of total failure, and in place of risk we use a formal fragility based approach. We make a central distinction between 1) thin and fat tails, 2) Local and systemic risks and place PP in the joint Fat Tails and systemic cases. We discuss the implications for GMOs (compared to Nuclear energy) and show that GMOs represent a public risk of global harm (while harm from nuclear energy is comparatively limited and better characterized). PP should be used to prescribe severe limits on GMOs.
[...]
Labeling the GMO approach “scientific" betrays a very poor—indeed warped—understanding of probabilistic payoffs and risk management. A lack of observations of explicit harm does not show absence of hidden risks. ... Given the limited oversight that is taking place on GMO introductions in the US, and the global impact of those introductions, we are precisely in the regime of the ruin problem.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Failed in Colorado.

Yeah, I don't know how much the chemical companies poured into that initiative from out of state. I assume it was also into the millions. At the moment (at least domestically) we're seeing a very successful information campaign and the issue will absolutely make it's way to Washington. Sooner than later, I think. But it's important to understand that our representatives will soon be forced into a position to demonstrate accountability when providing their platforms with regard to foreign policy and this is a huge factor in that. Economically, we seem content to continue to isolate the U.S. from the rest of the world. Well...at least that's what we're seeing from our elected ones. We like to try to fool ourselves into some fairy tale notion that foreign policy equates to the wars in the middle east and that's it but this is naive to continue to do. And will certainly leave some folks red faced down the road. Just because you won't hear about it from legacy/corporate media in the western nations who are pushing for the TPP doesn't mean that it isn't a huge deal globally. And like I said, that's where the real battle is going to take place with regard to an "agricultural standard". In fact, it's taking place at the moment and has been for some time. Domestically, we're content with an information campaign. That's succeeding for all practical purposes.

 

[Deborah K]

meh, I'd rather argue to remove the labeling mandate, I mean that's the freedom position. But whatever, I have few problems with this being done at the state level, let them reap their own pain.

Allowing multinational corporations to win by taking the high road may be a "freedom position", but it doesn't result in freedom. Making them play by their own rules, gives us the freedom to choose what products we will and will not buy.

One way or another, they're going down. More and more companies are labeling their products GMO Free (so much for the cost factor excuse), and more and more people are choosing to buy those products.

 

[donnay]

This symbol, to me, is more important than "Certified Organic".

 

[specsaregood]

Allowing multinational corporations to win by taking the high road may be a "freedom position", but it doesn't result in freedom. Making them play by their own rules, gives us the freedom to choose what products we will and will not buy.

One way or another, they're going down. More and more companies are labeling their products GMO Free (so much for the cost factor excuse), and more and more people are choosing to buy those products.

one way or another some people want to promote govt mandates on speech, and some don't. we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think we make things better by demanding more.

 

[specsaregood]

This symbol, to me, is more important than "Certified Organic".

Me too! And no govt mandate required.

 

[surf]

Open primary system

Would create a top-two open primary system.
50.3% Reporting






No
66.9% 497,613

Yes
33.1% 246,279

good for Oregon - it looks like they went 3 for 3. a potential trip to Portscum seems less horrible now. particularly happy that they didn't fall for that top-2 bs.