Global Warming huh...On pace to be coldest July EVER

When it comes to the solar cycles people they said the Earth was warming for like 30 years because of the solar cycle and that the cycles are slowing down and therefore the earth is cooling again.

Back in 2004 I heard an interview with a Russian climatologist and he said using solar models he predicted we would see a cooling trend starting around 2010. I wish I could remember his name.

The funny thing about this is that I remember a time when people understood that we don't really know anything about weather or climate. Even people that devote their lives to it dont understand how weather on this planet works. But the day a bunch of bureaucrats decide we've got a disaster on our hands, all of a sudden everyone's an expert and no one dares question them.
 
Don't forget, even though you can't really put a dollar amount on it, it would be nice to maintain some of the incredible natural wonders the earth has produced over the past billion years. I would hate to lose the Amazon rain forest, we haven't even discovered a quarter of the species there.

And to you point about the earth getting warmer some places and cooler in others, that is true, for a while. However, if we keep producing CO2 at the current rate, then almost every part of the earth will be significantly warmer within a century or so.

That is a projection but cannot be proven. If the US decided to produce zero CO2 would that be enough to offest the levels produced in coutries like China and India? Is that assumption that we produce at the current level or if we continue to increase our production of CO2 at current rates of growth? Don't get me wrong, I consider myself to be "green" and have been since at least the 1970's. I have come to be more accepting of the "solar sunspot cycle" theory of late (yes, it too is just a theory at this point).

The global climate is very complex and so many things are interdependent on each other. Modeling of climate has improved but still their is no real proof that we can change what is going on in the climate- in a positive or negative way- short of destroying it. I favor alternative energy sources and conservation and anti pollution laws. We can observe changes and try to best respond to the new conditions but I have my own questions as to whether we can really do much about the weather.

I have seen the ice core date from Antartica and accompaning info found in seabed sediments which match up and they seem to show that as CO2 levels went up, so too have temperatures tended to go and right now the levels measured are higher than any in the historic record. But what does it mean? Is it really measuring natural changes? Are human effects counteracting natural ones or are they amplifying them? If natural temperatures were going to go up anyways by say five degrees, is human activity causing them to go up by six degrees insead? Or ten? Or four?
 
Its because Asia has lost 40 percent of exports,lol

the factories are not firing on all cylinders. Or it could be the sun flares, or it could be the ozone whole is gone.
 
the factories are not firing on all cylinders. Or it could be the sun flares, or it could be the ozone whole is gone.

The hole in the ozone will never be gone since its naturally occuring.

Another example of finding something unexpected and jumping to the conclusion the cause is mankind.
 
That is a projection but cannot be proven. If the US decided to produce zero CO2 would that be enough to offest the levels produced in coutries like China and India? Is that assumption that we produce at the current level or if we continue to increase our production of CO2 at current rates of growth? Don't get me wrong, I consider myself to be "green" and have been since at least the 1970's. I have come to be more accepting of the "solar sunspot cycle" theory of late (yes, it too is just a theory at this point).

The global climate is very complex and so many things are interdependent on each other. Modeling of climate has improved but still their is no real proof that we can change what is going on in the climate- in a positive or negative way- short of destroying it. I favor alternative energy sources and conservation and anti pollution laws. We can observe changes and try to best respond to the new conditions but I have my own questions as to whether we can really do much about the weather.

I have seen the ice core date from Antartica and accompaning info found in seabed sediments which match up and they seem to show that as CO2 levels went up, so too have temperatures tended to go and right now the levels measured are higher than any in the historic record. But what does it mean? Is it really measuring natural changes? Are human effects counteracting natural ones or are they amplifying them? If natural temperatures were going to go up anyways by say five degrees, is human activity causing them to go up by six degrees insead? Or ten? Or four?

In regards to your first questions, I can't remember exactly what scenario that would happen under, I just got the take home message that we need to reduce emissions. And that we as in humanity, not the US. Of course if China and India keep on truckin', then it will negate anything we do. The lecture from the IPCC guy definitely wasn't a policy discussion, it was just a discussion of the scientific facts.

As for your last questions, I have no clue. Like I said, under all those scenarios, the message is the same: get out of fossil fuels. There are so many reasons to do it, that the degree of global warming is really irrelevant. All we can do is fix our own behavior, and hope China and India see the light before things get too bad. After all, their excuse is, "You did it during your rise to a developed nation, why can't we?"
 
I would appreciate a link or two about those IPCC folks who felt misrepresented. I met one of the guys in the IPCC, a professor from Rutgers, and that definitely wasn't the case with him. He was pleased with the overall statement that came from the group.

IPCC report criticized by one of its lead authors
Politics, not science, drives the United Nations' work on climate change, warns Dr. Richard Lindzen, one of the world's leading atmospheric physicists
Environment & Climate News > June 2001
W
ritten By: Paul Georgia
Published In: Environment & Climate News > June 2001
Publication date: 06/01/2001
Publisher: The Heartland Institute
The Third Assessment Report (TAR) of the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), expected to be released sometime in 2001, is already coming under heavy criticism from various directions. But none has been more devastating than the one delivered on March 1 by one of the report's lead authors.

Dr. Richard S. Lindzen, the Alfred P. Sloan professor of meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and one of the world's leading atmospheric scientists, told a standing-room only audience at a briefing sponsored by the Cooler Heads Coalition in the U.S. Senate Environment Committee Room, that the IPCC process is driven by politics rather than science.

What are some of the problems with the IPCC process, according to Lindzen? It uses summaries to misrepresent what scientists say. It uses language that means different things to scientists and laymen. It exploits public ignorance over quantitative matters. It exploits what scientists can agree on, while ignoring disagreements, to support the global warming agenda. And it exaggerates scientific accuracy and certainty and the authority of undistinguished scientists.


No consensus here

The "most egregious" problem with the IPCC's forthcoming report, said Lindzen, "is that it is presented as a consensus that involves hundreds, perhaps thousands, of scientists . . . and none of them was asked if they agreed with anything in the report except for the one or two pages they worked on."

Indeed, most press accounts covering the January release of the TAR's "Summary for Policymakers" characterized the report as the work of 2,000 (3,000 in some instances) of the world's leading climate scientists. IPCC's emphasis, however, isn't on getting qualified scientists, but on getting representatives from over 100 countries, said Lindzen. The truth is only a handful of countries do quality climate research. Most of the so-called experts served merely to pad the numbers.

"It is no small matter," said Lindzen, "that routine weather service functionaries from New Zealand to Tanzania are referred to as 'the world's leading climate scientists.' It should come as no surprise that they will be determinedly supportive of the process."

The IPCC clearly uses the Summary for Policymakers to misrepresent what is in the report, said Lindzen. He gave an example from the chapter he worked on, chapter 7, addressing physical processes.

The 35-page chapter, said Lindzen, pointed out many problems with the way climate computer models treat specific physical processes, such as water vapor, clouds, ocean currents, and so on. Clouds and water vapor in clouds, for example, are badly misrepresented in the models. The physics are all wrong, he said. Those things the models do well are irrelevant to the all-important feedback effects.

"The treatment of water vapor in clouds is crucial to models producing a lot of warming," explained Lindzen. "Without them [positive feedbacks], no model would produce much warming."

The IPCC summarizes the 35-page chapter in one sentence: "Understanding of climate processes and their incorporation in climate models have improved, including water vapor, sea dynamics and ocean heat transport."

That, said Lindzen, does not summarize the chapter at all. "That is why a lot of us have said that the document itself is informative; the summary is not."

Lindzen briefly discussed a paper he published in the March 2001 issue of the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, clarifying the water vapor feedback issue. Using detailed daily measurements, Lindzen and his coauthors from NASA showed that cloud cover in the tropics diminishes as temperatures rise, cooling the planet by allowing more heat to escape.

"The effect observed," said Lindzen, "is sufficient such that if current models are absolutely correct, except for missing this, models that predict between 1.5 and 4.5 degrees warming go down to about .4 to 1.2 degrees warming."


Not the way science is done

The IPCC claims its report is peer-reviewed, which simply isn't true, Lindzen said. Under true peer-review, he explained, a panel of reviewers must accept a study before it can be published in a scientific journal. If the reviewers have objections, the author must answer them or change the article to take reviewers' objections into account.

Under the IPCC review process, by contrast, the authors are at liberty to ignore criticisms. After having his review comments ignored by the IPCC in 1990 and 1995, Lindzen asked to have his name removed from the list of reviewers. The group refused.

The IPCC has resorted to using scenario-building in its policymakers' summary to paint a frightening picture not supported by the science, Lindzen charged. Ignoring the science allows the IPCC to build a scenario, for example, that assumes man will burn 300 years' worth of coal in 100 years. They plug that into the most sensitive climate model available and arrive at a truly frightening global warming scenario.

"People wouldn't normally take that very seriously," said Lindzen, "but I think the IPCC understands the media will report the top number. I don't think, any longer, that this is unintentional."

The IPCC also exploits what scientists do agree on to support its agenda, according to Lindzen. For example, Lindzen said, scientists can more-or-less live with the idea conveyed in the IPCC report that everything is connected to everything else, and everything is uncertain.

Lindzen himself doesn't think these ideas are particularly reasonable. But politicians and environmentalists take this minimal area of agreement, and then claim that anything can cause anything and we must act to stop it.

Scientists agree, for example, that atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases have increased over the last 100 years. They also generally agree the climate has warmed slightly. Uncertainties remain, however, regarding even those basic propositions. Contrary to the impression given by the IPCC, there is no widespread agreement on what these two "facts" mean for mankind. Yet they are deemed by the IPCC sufficient to justify precipitous action.


Fun with numbers

Perhaps Lindzen's most devastating critique is aimed at the IPCC's use of statistics.

The IPCC's infamous hockey stick graph, for example, shows global temperatures have been stable or falling over the last 1,000 years, and that only in the industrial age has there been an unnatural warming of the planet. But if you look at the margin of error in that graph, "You can no longer maintain that statement," said Lindzen.

Lindzen also noted the margin of error used in the IPCC report is much smaller, a 60 percent confidence level, than traditionally used by scientists, who generally report results at the 95 or even 99 percent confidence level. The IPCC is thus publicizing results much less likely to be correct than scientific research is generally expected to be.

To illustrate his point, Lindzen showed estimates of some of the most precise numbers in physics with their error bars. He showed different measurements of the speed of light, for instance, from 1929 to the 1980s. The error bars for the estimated speed of light in 1932 and 1940 do not even include the value we think is the correct speed of light today. "Error bars should not be taken lightly," warned Lindzen. "There is genuine uncertainty in them."


Incentives matter

"Scientists are human beings," Lindzen concluded, "subject to normal instincts and weaknesses." They respond to incentives just like everyone else. "Current government funding creates incentives to behave poorly by maintaining the relevance of the subject," he said, noting that on some issues financial support for science depends on "alarming the world."

Indeed, Lindzen noted, Mario Molina and Sherwood Rowland were awarded the 1995 Nobel Prize in chemistry for their work on ozone depletion--not for alerting the world, but for "alarming" it. "You don't want scientists to get hooked on this as the key to fame and glory," he warned.

There's little doubt, Lindzen said, that the IPCC process has become politicized to the point of uselessness. He advised U.S. policymakers simply to ignore it.
 
Statement on Global Warming Petition Signed by 31,478 Scientists

Posted By tmartin On June 4, 2009 @ 10:52 pm In Ron Paul in Congress, Ron Paul's Speeches

Before the US House of Representatives, June 4, 2009

Ron Paul: Madam Speaker, before voting on the “cap-and-trade” legislation, my colleagues should consider the views expressed in the following petition that has been signed by 31,478 American scientists:

“We urge the United States government to reject the global warming [1] agreement that was written in Kyoto, Japan in December, 1997, and any other similar proposals. The proposed limits on greenhouse gases would harm the environment, hinder the advance of science and technology, and damage the health and welfare of mankind.

There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth.”

Circulated through the mail by a distinguished group of American physical scientists and supported by a definitive review of the peer-reviewed scientific literature, this may be the strongest and most widely supported statement on this subject that has been made by the scientific community. A state-by-state listing of the signers, which include 9,029 men and women with PhD degrees, a listing of their academic specialties, and a peer-reviewed summary of the science on this subject are available at www.petitionproject.org [2].

The peer-reviewed summary, “Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide” by A. B. Robinson, N. E. Robinson, and W. Soon includes 132 references to the scientific literature and was circulated with the petition.

Signers of this petition include 3,803 with specific training in atmospheric, earth, and environmental sciences. All 31,478 of the signers have the necessary training in physics, chemistry, and mathematics to understand and evaluate the scientific data relevant to the human-caused global warming [1] hypothesis and to the effects of human activities upon environmental quality.

In a letter circulated with this petition, Frederick Seitz — past President of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, President Emeritus of Rockefeller University, and recipient of honorary doctorate degrees from 32 universities throughout the world — wrote:

“The United States is very close to adopting an international agreement that would ration the use of energy and of technologies that depend upon coal, oil, and natural gas and some other organic compounds.

“This treaty is, in our opinion, based upon flawed ideas. Research data on climate change [1] do not show that human use of hydrocarbons is harmful. To the contrary, there is good evidence that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide is environmentally helpful.

“The proposed agreement we have very negative effects upon the technology of nations throughout the world; especially those that are currently attempting to lift from poverty and provide opportunities to the over 4 billion people in technologically underdeveloped countries.

“It is especially important for America to hear from its citizens who have the training necessary to evaluate the relevant data and offer sound advice.

“We urge you to sign and return the enclosed petition card. If you would like more cards for use by your colleagues, these will be sent.”

Madam Speaker, at a time when our nation is faced with a severe shortage of domestically produced energy and a serious economic contraction; we should be reducing the taxation and regulation that plagues our energy-producing industries.

Yet, we will soon be considering so-called “cap and trade” legislation that would increase the taxation and regulation of our energy industries. “Cap-and-trade” will do at least as much, if not more, damage to the economy as the treaty referred by Professor Seitz! This legislation is being supported by the claims of “global warming [1]” and “climate change [1]” advocates — claims that, as demonstrated by the 31,478 signatures to Professor Seitz’ petition, many American scientists believe is disproved by extensive experimental and observational work.

It is time that we look beyond those few who seek increased taxation and increased regulation and control of the American people. Our energy policies must be based upon scientific truth — not fictional movies or self-interested international agendas. They should be based upon the accomplishments of technological free enterprise that have provided our modern civilization, including our energy industries. That free enterprise must not be hindered by bogus claims about imaginary disasters.

Above all, we must never forget our contract with the American people — the Constitution that provides the sole source of legitimacy of our government. That Constitution requires that we preserve the basic human rights of our people — including the right to freely manufacture, use, and sell energy produced by any means they devise — including nuclear, hydrocarbon, solar, wind, or even bicycle generators.

While it is evident that the human right to produce and use energy does not extend to activities that actually endanger the climate of the Earth upon which we all depend, bogus claims about climate dangers should not be used as a justification to further limit the American people’s freedom.

In conclusion, I once again urge my colleagues to carefully consider the arguments made by the 31,478 American scientists who have signed this petition before voting on any legislation imposing new regulations or taxes on the American people in the name of halting climate change [1].
 
Climate case built on thin foundation


John McLean | September 09, 2008
Article from: The Australian

ROSS Garnaut made it clear in his interim report that his climate change review takes as a starting point - not as a belief but on the balance of probabilities - that the claims made in the fourth assessment report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change are correct.

Had he made even a cursory examination of the integrity of those IPCC claims he would have found a very troubling picture.

The IPCC encourages us to believe that about 2500 climate scientists supported the claim of a significant human influence on climate. It fails to clarify that the claim was made in chapter nine of the working group one contribution and that the contributions of working groups two and three were based on the assumption that the claim was correct. The first eight chapters of the WG1 contribution were mainly concerned with climatic observations and the authors expressed no opinion about the claim made in chapter nine, and chapters 10 and 11 assumed the claim to be correct. The entire IPCC thesis therefore stands or falls on the claims of just one chapter.

We are also led to believe that chapter nine was widely supported by hundreds of reviewers, but just 62 IPCC reviewers commented on its penultimate draft. Only five of those reviewers endorsed it but four of the five appear to have vested interests and the other made just one comment for the entire 11-chapter WG1 contribution.

As is the normal IPCC practice, chapter nine has co-ordinating lead authors, who are responsible for the chapter as a whole; lead authors, who are responsible for sections of the chapter; and contributing authors, who provide their thoughts to the lead authors but take no active part in thewriting.

The IPCC procedures state that the authors at each level should reflect a wide range of views, but this is not true of chapter nine.

The expansion of the full list of authors of each paper cited by this chapter reveals that 37 of 53 chapter authors form a network of people who have previously co-authored scientific papers with each other: or make that 38 if we include a review editor.

The two co-ordinating lead authors are members of this network. So are five of the seven lead authors. Thirty of 44 contributing authors are in the network and two other pairs of contributing authors have likewise co-authored scientific papers.

In other words, the supposedly 53 independent voices are in fact one dominant voice with 37 people behind it, two voices each with two people behind them, and perhaps 12 single voices. A closer check reveals that many of those 12 were academic or work colleagues of members of that larger network. One lead author was from the University of Michigan, as were three contributing authors, two of whom were not members of the network. Another lead author was associated with Britain's Hadley Centre, along with eight contributing authors, one of whom was not included in that network of co-authors.

All up, the 53 authors of this chapter came from just 31 establishments and there are worrying indications that certain lead authors were the superiors of contributing authors from the same organisation. The very few viewpoints in this chapter might be alleviated if it drew on a wide range of references, but among the co-authors of 40 per cent of the cited material are at least one chapter author.

Scientists associated with the development and use of climate models dominate the clique of chapter nine authors and by extension the views expressed in that chapter.

Perhaps the increase in the processing power of their computers has increased their confidence in the software they have been nurturing for years. Imagine, though, the consequences were they to imply that the accuracy of the models had not improved despite the extra funding.

These models are said to require a human component to reasonably match historical temperatures and the modellers claim that this proves a human influence on climate, but the human factor is an input so a corresponding output is no surprise. A more plausible reason for the mismatch without this influence is that the models are incomplete and contain errors, but of course chapter nine could never admit this.

Garnaut didn't need to evaluate the science behind the IPCC's claim to find that its integrity is questionable and that the report's key findings are the product of scientific cronyism.

The IPCC has misled us into believing the primary claims were widely endorsed by authors and reviewers but in fact they received little support and came from a narrow self-interested coterie of climate modellers.

We should now ask what else the IPCC has misled us about and why Garnaut, a skilled academic, so blithely accepted its claims.

John McLean is a climate data analyst and a member of the Australian Climate Science Coalition.
 
The IPCC paper is fraudulent misrepresentation

We are meant to believe that thousands of scientists collaborated on the famous Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) paper that warned of global warming and then came to the conclusion that man-made CO2 is causing Global warming.

But University of Guelph Professor ROSS McKITRICK recently blogged in the Detroit free press, and I quote:

“I know that the IPCC supposedly has thousands of experts who all say that global warming is a crisis. I was one of the people who worked on that report [emphasis mine, Ed]. The reality is they never asked us if we agreed with the conclusions, and only a handful of authors had a say in the final summary. In any case, I don’t care how many professors agree or disagree on something, what matters is whether I agree with the data.”

To me that’s asking for inputs, then ignoring them in the final report, but quoting the names of the people who were ignored!! I call that fraudulent misrepresentation.

Expanding on the current situation, Ross points out that IPCC projected that the main effect of CO2 over the past century should have been a strong warming in the mid-troposphere over the tropics of one-quarter to one-half degree Celsius per decade and that should now be observable.

Ross explains [summarized - Ed]: “But data from the University of Alabama and Remote Sensing Systems in California show a 30-year trend over the tropics of (a statistically insignificant) six-hundredths of a degree Celsius per decade. In other words, the data do not show the warming trend that the models say should be under way, if greenhouse gases have such a big effect on the climate.

“There are other clues that the effect of greenhouse gases may have been overstated. The stratosphere is supposed to be cooling, but the satellite instruments show that since 1995 there has been no such trend.

“Our best current data sets do not support the idea that CO2 is causing a global warming problem.”

Ross has collected his writings on this subject here: ross.mckitrick.googlepages.com/
 
Former IPCC Member Slams UN Scientists' Lack of Geologic Knowledge
By Noel Sheppard
Created 2007-07-09 13:53

With each passing day, more and more current and former members of the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change are stepping out of the shadows to suggest that this group’s alarmist conclusions concerning global warming are more based in myth than science.

Another member of this growing list of skeptics is Tom V. Segalstad who was an Expert Reviewer for the IPCC’s third assessment report.

As published [1] in Canada’s National Post Saturday, conveniently coincident with Al Gore’s Live Earth concerts (emphasis added throughout):

We are doomed, say climate change scientists associated with the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the United Nations body that is organizing most of the climate change research occurring in the world today. Carbon dioxide from man-made sources rises to the atmosphere and then stays there for 50, 100, or even 200 years. This unprecedented buildup of CO2 then traps heat that would otherwise escape our atmosphere, threatening us all.

“This is nonsense," says Tom V. Segalstad, head of the Geological Museum at the University of Oslo and formerly an expert reviewer with the same IPCC. He laments the paucity of geologic knowledge among IPCC scientists -- a knowledge that is central to understanding climate change, in his view, since geologic processes ultimately determine the level of atmospheric CO2.

"The IPCC needs a lesson in geology to avoid making fundamental mistakes," he says. "Most leading geologists, throughout the world, know that the IPCC's view of Earth processes are implausible if not impossible."

Most leading geologists know this? But, how can that be true? After all, Al Gore, Sheryl Crow, Laurie David, and Leonardo DiCaprio – despite having absolutely no expertise concerning this matter – say otherwise. As such, why should we care what someone that actually specializes in this field thinks?

Regardless, the article demonstrated how the IPCC has basically created computer models to predict an end result it wanted while totally ignoring current and past scientific observations regarding CO2’s expected life in the atmosphere:

[W]ith the advent of IPCC-influenced science, the length of time that carbon stays in the atmosphere became controversial. Climate change scientists began creating carbon cycle models to explain what they thought must be an excess of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. These computer models calculated a long life for carbon dioxide.

Amazingly, the hypothetical results from climate models have trumped the real world measurements of carbon dioxide's longevity in the atmosphere. Those who claim that CO2 lasts decades or centuries have no such measurements or other physical evidence to support their claims.

Neither can they demonstrate that the various forms of measurement are erroneous.

"They don't even try," says Prof. Segalstad. "They simply dismiss evidence that is, for all intents and purposes, irrefutable. Instead, they substitute their faith, constructing a kind of science fiction or fantasy world in the process."

For those that are interested, this is why anthropogenic global warming is regularly referred to as junk science. As Segalstad stated, rather than base future expectations on known past and present observations, the IPCC has created models to predict future events lacking any historical basis.

The article then explained what has been observed, and why what the IPCC is predicting is so ridiculous:

In the real world, as measurable by science, CO2 in the atmosphere and in the ocean reach a stable balance when the oceans contain 50 times as much CO2 as the atmosphere. "The IPCC postulates an atmospheric doubling of CO2, meaning that the oceans would need to receive 50 times more CO2 to obtain chemical equilibrium," explains Prof. Segalstad. "This total of 51 times the present amount of carbon in atmospheric CO2 exceeds the known reserves of fossil carbon-- it represents more carbon than exists in all the coal, gas, and oil that we can exploit anywhere in the world."

So, how does the IPCC resolve this conundrum? Better remove all fluids from proximity:

Also in the real world, Prof. Segalstad's isotope mass balance calculations -- a standard technique in science -- show that if CO2 in the atmosphere had a lifetime of 50 to 200 years, as claimed by IPCC scientists, the atmosphere would necessarily have half of its current CO2 mass. Because this is a nonsensical outcome, the IPCC model postulates that half of the CO2 must be hiding somewhere, in "a missing sink." Many studies have sought this missing sink -- a Holy Grail of climate science research-- without success.

Marvelous, wouldn’t you agree? But, not as good as the Professor’s conclusion:

"It is a search for a mythical CO2 sink to explain an immeasurable CO2 lifetime to fit a hypothetical CO2 computer model that purports to show that an impossible amount of fossil fuel burning is heating the atmosphere," Prof. Segalstad concludes.

"It is all a fiction."

Sadly, this fiction is making a lot of people a lot of money, and threatens to have a huge negative impact on the economies of the developed world especially that of the United States.
 
Ok Danke, I'll go article by article with you

1) The first one is published by the Heartland Institute, who definitely has an agenda. Look at their funding. They've recieved quite a bit from exxon, as well as The Sarah Scaife Foundation. Let's take a deeper look at that foundation (bold for my emphasis)...

The Sarah Scaife Foundation is one of the American Scaife Foundations. It is controlled by Richard Mellon Scaife. The foundation does not award grants to individuals. It concentrates its efforts towards causes focused on public policy at a national and international level. From 1985 to 2003 the organization awarded over $235 million USD to other organizations.

The organizations it has supported include the George C. Marshall Institute and Project for the New American Century.


2) A statement from a house republican. He mostly talks about jobs, not the science, need something more concrete.

3) Doesn't mention any IPCC scientists having a problem. So not every single one could sign off on every single chapter, is that suprising?

4) That's an article from an economist. Go to his website. Most of the articles are not science articles, but public-policy and economics articles.

5) Ok, this one has some merit. But you have to keep in mind, this is one guy. All the other articles you have given me are suspect at best, if not total propaganda.

I'll try to find the powerpoint the Rutgers climatologist showed my air pollution class. He was on the most recent IPCC, and he put forth a very thoughtful and convincing argument.
 
Its hot as hell down here in Florida. However, i just moved down here from Maine so my opinion will be different than those that have been acclimated to the heat. We have had only 6 days in the 90s this month though.

I talked with some of my buddies up in Maine and they said it hasnt been close to hitting 80 up there this month. Lucky bastards. I remember sitting in the top floor of my apartment with no a/c having 4 fans running and sweating my ass off.
 
Jesus, this thread is full of shit.

You guys never know what the fuck you believe.

One day its: The earth is warming, it's just not man's fault!

The next day its: The earth is cooling, suck it environmentalists!!!

*sigh* The alternative theory to the "greenhouse" theory is that the sun drives global warming due to variations in sunspot activity and fluctuations in orbits. Right now sunspot activity is down. Guess what? Temperatures have leveled off just like the theory predicted. And that's not just coming from "this thread". It's coming from scientists and being reported in the mainstream media.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1363818.ece
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ea...obal-warming-may-stop-scientists-predict.html

When Earth's atmosphere was heating up so were the atmospheres on Jupiter and Mars.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080522121036.htm
http://seoblackhat.com/2007/03/04/global-warming-on-mars-pluto-triton-and-jupiter/
http://www.livescience.com/environment/070312_solarsys_warming.html

Oh, and were you aware that back in the 1970s these same alarmists were blaming fossil fuels for global cooling?

http://www.denisdutton.com/cooling_world.htm
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,944914,00.html

You have a lot to learn. But don't feel bad. I was once taken in by the global warming scam too. In fact the founder of the weather channel has called the whole "greenhouse effect" theory the greatest scam in human history.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...-founder-global-warming-greatest-scam-history
 
This topic is so gay.

You know what. Go buy yourself some sun screen. Plant a tree in your back yard. Start riding a bike to work. Turn off the TV and read a book.


POOF!!!!

Earth Saved.
 
Ok Danke, I'll go article by article with you

1) The first one is published by the Heartland Institute, who definitely has an agenda. Look at their funding. They've recieved quite a bit from exxon, as well as The Sarah Scaife Foundation. Let's take a deeper look at that foundation (bold for my emphasis)...

The Sarah Scaife Foundation is one of the American Scaife Foundations. It is controlled by Richard Mellon Scaife. The foundation does not award grants to individuals. It concentrates its efforts towards causes focused on public policy at a national and international level. From 1985 to 2003 the organization awarded over $235 million USD to other organizations.

The organizations it has supported include the George C. Marshall Institute and Project for the New American Century.


2) A statement from a house republican. He mostly talks about jobs, not the science, need something more concrete.

3) Doesn't mention any IPCC scientists having a problem. So not every single one could sign off on every single chapter, is that suprising?

4) That's an article from an economist. Go to his website. Most of the articles are not science articles, but public-policy and economics articles.

5) Ok, this one has some merit. But you have to keep in mind, this is one guy. All the other articles you have given me are suspect at best, if not total propaganda.

I'll try to find the powerpoint the Rutgers climatologist showed my air pollution class. He was on the most recent IPCC, and he put forth a very thoughtful and convincing argument.

And did you bother finding out who funded the Rutgers climatologist? :rolleyes: And did he explain to you why the ice caps on Mars were melting? That solar powered Mars rover must have caused it I suppose. :rolleyes:
 
It's been unseasonably cool in southern Indiana. Last saturday I was out having dinner with my parents, and it was so cold they had to go get their jackets out of the car. Interesting how the sunspot activity stops and it magically gets cooler, just like we predicted it would. No, it's this evil carbon dioxide.
 
Florida here, I hope it's global cooling instead of global warming. I don't think I could take more heat.
 
All us Minnesotans have been trying to deplete the ozone layer for years, and it hasn't done a damn bit of good... still too damn cold. ;)
 
Reminds me of the commercial in the movie Robocop. Anybody remember that commercial?

Shouldn't we all have skin cancer by now and need special sunscreen just to survive, with that huge hole in the ozone layer? Sadly Ill be alive to see what the fight against global cooling will look like. *sigh*
 
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