Giving up alcohol, any advice?

[Keith and stuff]

The whole idea that people are completely powerless to keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels is absurd. Even people who don't keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels have the power to, they just choose not to use it.

You very well might be correct. Maybe it's just the choose not to part that is needed. Used to feel the way you felt. Still struggling with that, also. Maybe some people are just weaker/broken and need to be built back up/fixed?

 

[Tpoints]

Meh, they are usually spot on about 97% of the time..

Have you been to an AA meeting before? I went to one with a friend one time (he was required to go or else go to jail) and even he admitted afterward it was a cult. He didn't say before because he wanted me to actually go and see it for myself.

The whole idea that people are completely powerless to keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels is absurd. Even people who don't keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels have the power to, they just choose not to use it.

Well, it's the extreme alternative to the "everything is your fault" message that people get when they're arrested or sent to court. There should be a middle ground, and I'm sure it varies by person. I do not sympathize with alcoholics, and I don't care if it's their fault/responsibility, I also don't care much if it's a cult, if they had that as an alternative to jail, they can take it or leave it.

 

[Tpoints]

You obviously have never had a real alcoholic in your family.

Say the same thing about heroin and you'll see how ridiculous your statement is.

No, it's not ridiculous. If you were locked in a cage without access to heroine, you can avoid consumption of it, it'll be extremely painful, or even dangerous, but it's not impossible. Furthermore, no matter how addictive alcohol or any other drug is, you can't be dependent on it unless you tried it first yourself. So what now? Somebody forcefully injected your first dose?

By the way, there's a reason alcohol is not heroin. I am willing to bet the addictiveness varies widely. At what point will you say it's personal responsibility? Why not change the word to sugar or simply pleasure?

 

[jmdrake]

You very well might be correct. Maybe it's just the choose not to part that is needed. Used to feel the way you felt. Still struggling with that, also. Maybe some people are just weaker/broken and need to be built back up/fixed?

Keith, I'm not an alcoholic but I'm dealing with an addiction that's just as bad. (PM me if you want to know more). You are an addict if you have a habit that is so strong that you keep doing it even in the face of negative consequences. You can "choose" not to do something...and still do it. Certain actions happen from certain parts of your brain that at times bypass the part of your brain where "choice" happens. You can "choose" to do things that make it less likely to do "non choice" actions you don't want to do later. One of those "choices" may be to go to AA. One may be to go to therapy. One may be to read self help books. But anyone who tells you "You just have to choose to stop" doesn't know what they are talking about. I know I've said this several times already, but get and read the book "The Power of Habit" if you want to know how to break an addiction.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

The problem I have with AA has been mentioned already. You must admit you are powerless to your disease and turn yourself over to a higher power. The support aspect of it is great and I've known a few alcoholics who have done the program successfully (stopped drinking altogether) but AA obviously isn't for everyone. Particularly athiests. What helps some people doesn't help others. One person I knew was 'brain washed' by NA and AA classes (court ordered) and came home spouting off all sorts of targeted propaganda. You want to complete the program that's fine.. best of luck.. but don't start parroting the same psychological babble that was force fed to you. I really just can't stand how selfrighteous some people become after completing the 12 steps.

 

[Tpoints]

The problem I have with AA has been mentioned already. You must admit you are powerless to your disease and turn yourself over to a higher power. The support aspect of it is great and I've known a few alcoholics who have done the program successfully (stopped drinking altogether) but AA obviously isn't for everyone. Particularly athiests. What helps some people doesn't help others. One person I knew was 'brain washed' by NA and AA classes (court ordered) and came home spouting off all sorts of targeted propaganda. You want to complete the program that's fine.. best of luck.. but don't start parroting the same psychological babble that was force fed to you. I really just can't stand how selfrighteous some people become after completing the 12 steps.

Alcoholics are pretty much all losers, so it doesn't surprise me they are self righteous when they overcome their own prison.

 

[jmdrake]

Meh, they are usually spot on about 97% of the time..

Have you been to an AA meeting before? I went to one with a friend one time (he was required to go or else go to jail) and even he admitted afterward it was a cult. He didn't say before because he wanted me to actually go and see it for myself.

The whole idea that people are completely powerless to keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels is absurd. Even people who don't keep their alcohol consumption at reasonable levels have the power to, they just choose not to use it.

You obviously have never had a real alcoholic in your family.

Say the same thing about heroin and you'll see how ridiculous your statement is.

No, it's not ridiculous. If you were locked in a cage without access to heroine, you can avoid consumption of it, it'll be extremely painful, or even dangerous, but it's not impossible. Furthermore, no matter how addictive alcohol or any other drug is, you can't be dependent on it unless you tried it first yourself. So what now? Somebody forcefully injected your first dose?

By the way, there's a reason alcohol is not heroin. I am willing to bet the addictiveness varies widely. At what point will you say it's personal responsibility? Why not change the word to sugar or simply pleasure?

Ummm....tpoints, do you realize that you aren't at all addressing what Confederate said?

A heroine addict locked in a cage isn't "avoiding anything". He's been removed by forces beyond his control from the source of his addiction. And even if a heroine addict locks himself in a cage, that's not the same as dealing with his problem. Also people who have never tried alcohol aren't alcohol addicts. That might be where the language has gotten screwed up over the years. Habits are formed. They are not "pre-made".

As for "personal responsibility".....getting help if you need it is exercising personal responsibility.

 

[Tpoints]

Ummm....tpoints, do you realize that you aren't at all addressing what Confederate said?

A heroine addict locked in a cage isn't "avoiding anything". He's been removed by forces beyond his control from the source of his addiction. And even if a heroine addict locks himself in a cage, that's not the same as dealing with his problem. Also people who have never tried alcohol aren't alcohol addicts. That might be where the language has gotten screwed up over the years. Habits are formed. They are not "pre-made".

As for "personal responsibility".....getting help if you need it is exercising personal responsibility.

I didn't say I wanted deal with his problem, I did say it's possible to remove and avoid the consumption, if that's not the goal I have no answer.

"Also people who have never tried alcohol aren't alcohol addicts." I agree, but that's not what I hear when I am told "some people are more genetically prone than others" as if that'll matter if they never tried it.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Alcoholics are pretty much all losers, so it doesn't surprise me they are self righteous when they overcome their own prison.

That is ignorance on your part. The reasons for alcoholism vary and many alcoholics are genuinely good people. More-so than you would ever know.. or care to know, from the sound of things. Genetics plays a role too.

 

[jmdrake]

I didn't say I wanted deal with his problem, I did say it's possible to remove and avoid the consumption, if that's not the goal I have no answer.

"Also people who have never tried alcohol aren't alcohol addicts." I agree, but that's not what I hear when I am told "some people are more genetically prone than others" as if that'll matter if they never tried it.

Okay. Tell me this. Do you believe it's possible that some people are more genetically prone than others? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Sure, someone could avoid becoming an alcoholic by never drinking (unless it was forced on them somehow or their non-alcoholic drink was spiked). But....what's your point? I know the addiction I deal with isn't genetic. I know what triggered it initially. I know it was something beyond my ability to control. And I know I need to deal with it now and that just "choosing" not to do it didn't work for me in the past for more than a few months.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Wasn't trying to start fights or anything Lots of good stuff in this thread, though. Thanks.

 

[Tpoints]

Okay. Tell me this. Do you believe it's possible that some people are more genetically prone than others? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

Yes, I believe it's possible, I even believe it's true. But none of that matters if a person has to choose his first dose, the same is true of all other addictive substances. That's the main reason why most are illegal or controlled.

Sure, someone could avoid becoming an alcoholic by never drinking (unless it was forced on them somehow or their non-alcoholic drink was spiked). But....what's your point?

Yeah, sorry, why did I make the point that a person could choose to avoid making a stupid mistake that ruins their lives? That was silly of me.

I know the addiction I deal with isn't genetic. I know what triggered it initially. I know it was something beyond my ability to control.

If you admit you triggered it, the rest is irrelevant. Oh wait, sorry, you were talking about how to deal with it once you're hooked and trapped? Well, good luck to you, whatever works works, but I'll keep warning the newbies that they don't need to end up like the addicts or those who admit they cant' control themselves.

And I know I need to deal with it now and that just "choosing" not to do it didn't work for me in the past for more than a few months.

Why didn't it work for you? Did alcohol hold a gun to your head and say "drink me or I'll kill you"? Did your wife keep asking you to drink or threaten to divorce you? Did your friends call you a pussy for not drinking or not being able to control yourself?

But back up a little bit, what is the "problem" you were trying to solve? Were you wasting too much money or was your behavior too despicable?

 

[brandon]

Alcoholics are pretty much all losers, so it doesn't surprise me they are self righteous when they overcome their own prison.

Huh? I'm not sure how you define loser, but alcoholism has afflicted many of the most successful people in history.

 

[Tpoints]

Huh? I'm not sure how you define loser, but alcoholism has afflicted many of the most successful people in history.

a loser : somebody who can't control himself but then gives himself credit for doing something other people can do easily.

 

[dannno]

So I take it you bought into their attack on truthers too?

No, that makes up a good portion of the 3% of when they are wrong. The other episode on Mormonism has some pieces on JS that make up another good portion, though the parts about how Mormon families act is pretty spot on.

But anyone who thinks having a support group that you can be totally honest with isn't helpful for breaking addiction has never really dealt with addiction.

I'm all for support groups for people trying to quit alcohol or for all kinds of things, I just don't like the approach and propaganda used by AA.

 

[brandon]

That's a pretty strange definition of loser. Do you often make up new meanings for words? I bet this causes you a lot of headaches when trying to communicate with people.

 

[Tpoints]

That's a pretty strange definition of loser. Do you often make up new meanings for words? I bet this causes you a lot of headaches when trying to communicate with people.

Give me a better one

 

[awake]

Just a word of advice, you need to substitute a bad pleasure with a good one. You might have to do something you don't do yet.
Trying to quit with out proper and positive substitution makes it really difficult.

 

[dannno]

How much did you drink/night on average and how many nights/week on average?

What % do you drink socially at bars? with friends? at home alone?

Do you ever smoke cannabis?

Have you ever considered taking up the sport of surfing?

http://www.surfingstoke.com/blogs/new-england-perfection/

Surfing forces you to get up early, so you won't want to drink as much or as often. You will want to wake up early and surf. More compatible with partying on occasion (when the waves suck) and smoking weed.

 

[Confederate]

How much did you drink/night on average and how many nights/week on average?

What % do you drink socially at bars? with friends? at home alone?

Do you ever smoke cannabis?

Have you ever considered taking up the sport of surfing?

http://www.surfingstoke.com/blogs/new-england-perfection/

cannabis and surfing are for losers.