Getting Rid of the Income Tax

[raheelp]

Getting rid of the income tax and replacing it with nothing is simply not feasible.

Getting rid of the income tax it getting rid of $1.1 trillion from the Treasury.

How could we cut spending to account for such a loss of revenue? I want to see numbers please, even if they are rough.

My thinking was that you can't get rid of all the department of defense. I am not seeing where we get this $1.1 trillion cut in spending from.

 

[humanic]

This is from PolitiFact.com:

Ron Paul said in December 2007 that if the government stopped collecting income tax, we would have about the same level of funding that we did 10 years ago. “And the size of government wasn't all that bad 10 years ago,” concluded Paul who advocates limited government.

...

The most recent detailed data available on income tax collected in the United States is for 2005. Besides income tax, the IRS collects corporate taxes, employment taxes, estate and gift taxes, and excise taxes.

After issuing refunds, the IRS collected $880-billion in individual income tax in 2005. Subtract that from total tax collections for 2005 – which equaled close to $2-trillion – and you get $1.12-trillion.

By comparison, total tax collections in 1995 were about $1.27-trillion.

Those are two big numbers that sound close. But take out the calculator: The difference between the two numbers comes to about 12 percent, and when you’re talking about the federal government, that’s a chunk of change – about $150-billion. To put that in perspective, it would pay for almost a year and half of the war in Iraq. Adjust for inflation, and the gap widens to a roughly 30 percent shortfall.

We’ll concede that it’s possible Paul could reduce the budget by that much, based on some of the positions he advocates. Paul has said he’d like to slash the defense budget by pulling back all U.S. troops on foreign soil, zeroing out foreign aid and reducing the size of the active military. He also advocates abolishing other federal functions, like the Department of Education.

Whether he makes up that 12 percent difference or not will have to wait for a Paul presidency. Meanwhile, we find his statement that ending the income tax would roll back revenues 10 years to be Mostly True.

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/256/

 

[silence is betrayal]

The Income Tax is not legal. There is no law for it. Its a FRAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[raheelp]

This is from PolitiFact.com:

Ron Paul said in December 2007 that if the government stopped collecting income tax, we would have about the same level of funding that we did 10 years ago. “And the size of government wasn't all that bad 10 years ago,” concluded Paul who advocates limited government.

...

The most recent detailed data available on income tax collected in the United States is for 2005. Besides income tax, the IRS collects corporate taxes, employment taxes, estate and gift taxes, and excise taxes.

After issuing refunds, the IRS collected $880-billion in individual income tax in 2005. Subtract that from total tax collections for 2005 – which equaled close to $2-trillion – and you get $1.12-trillion.

By comparison, total tax collections in 1995 were about $1.27-trillion.

Those are two big numbers that sound close. But take out the calculator: The difference between the two numbers comes to about 12 percent, and when you’re talking about the federal government, that’s a chunk of change – about $150-billion. To put that in perspective, it would pay for almost a year and half of the war in Iraq. Adjust for inflation, and the gap widens to a roughly 30 percent shortfall.

We’ll concede that it’s possible Paul could reduce the budget by that much, based on some of the positions he advocates. Paul has said he’d like to slash the defense budget by pulling back all U.S. troops on foreign soil, zeroing out foreign aid and reducing the size of the active military. He also advocates abolishing other federal functions, like the Department of Education.

Whether he makes up that 12 percent difference or not will have to wait for a Paul presidency. Meanwhile, we find his statement that ending the income tax would roll back revenues 10 years to be Mostly True.

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/256/

This article only addresses the validity of the statement "If you got rid of the income tax today you'd have about as much revenue as we had 10 years ago."

Where does it say where we would cut $1.1 Trillion from?

 

[raheelp]

The Income Tax is not legal. There is no law for it. Its a FRAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not arguing the legitimacy of the Income Tax, I am asking the feasibility of getting rid of it.

 

[bbachtung]

Ron Paul has said that bringing all of our troops home -- not just ending the war in Iraq -- from the 130 countries in which we have troops deployed (most are in Germany, Japan, and Korea) and ending foreign aid would save roughly $1 trillion per year. Given that the PERSONAL income tax raises roughly $800 billion per year, we would do better than break even (RP does not plan to eliminate the CORPORATE income tax).

 

[AisA1787]

I am not arguing the legitimacy of the Income Tax, I am asking the feasibility of getting rid of it.

1) Get rid of the income tax.
2) Replace the lost revenue by borrowing more money from Japan, Saudi Arabia, and China.

Hey, why not?


But seriously, you can cut the income tax if you cut spending. For example, there are over 700 military bases and 500,000 soldiers overseas. Simply closing the bases and bringing those soldiers home to stateside bases would not only save the government money ($1 trillion?), it would mean that those soldiers would be spending their salaries at American businesses, pumping even more money into our economy, creating more jobs here at home, and thus increasing federal revenue through corporate taxes.

 

[raheelp]

Ron Paul has said that bringing all of our troops home -- not just ending the war in Iraq -- from the 130 countries in which we have troops deployed (most are in Germany, Japan, and Korea) and ending foreign aid would save roughly $1 trillion per year. Given that the PERSONAL income tax raises roughly $800 billion per year, we would do better than break even (RP does not plan to eliminate the CORPORATE income tax).

This makes sense if you can back it up but...

Having troops abroad doesn't come anywhere near 1.1 TRILLION dollars (or 800 billion) a year. That $1.2T is 44% of the fed. budget. Defense spending is only 18%. And that includes ALL defense spending (not counting supplemental bills, which would tack on a FEW percent.) The actual costs of keeping troops abroad in germany/japan/korea is only a small fraction of that 18%.

 

[raheelp]

1) Get rid of the income tax.
2) Replace the lost revenue by borrowing more money from Japan, Saudi Arabia, and China.

Hey, why not?


But seriously, you can cut the income tax if you cut spending. For example, there are over 700 military bases and 500,000 soldiers overseas. Simply closing the bases and bringing those soldiers home to stateside bases would not only save the government money ($1 trillion?), it would mean that those soldiers would be spending their salaries at American businesses, pumping even more money into our economy, creating more jobs here at home, and thus increasing federal revenue through corporate taxes.

See me post #8.

What would these 500,000 do at home? Are there enough jobs for them? I am not trying to be aggressive I just want to understand. They would still receive a government salary but stay at home?

 

[AisA1787]

Unfortunately, I think we have bigger problems than cutting the income tax:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXr_Ga_n0pY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXr_Ga_n0pY

 

[AisA1787]

See me post #8.

What would these 500,000 do at home? Are there enough jobs for them?

Umm... they're active duty soldiers, that's their job.

Re: how much money would it save, I don't know. I saw a chart online a while back but I forgot to bookmark it.

 

[raheelp]

Unfortunately, I think we have bigger problems than cutting the income tax:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXr_Ga_n0pY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXr_Ga_n0pY

Uhhh, stay on topic please

 

[AisA1787]

Uhhh, stay on topic please

it's on topic; it's a counter argument to cutting the income tax. we're so broke we can't afford to cut it.... ssshhh, don't tell anyone i said that.

 

[VoteForRonPaul]

The Income Tax is not legal. There is no law for it. Its a FRAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well said!
This is the heart of the issue, thanks!

 

[raheelp]

Umm... they're active duty soldiers, that's their job.

Re: how much money would it save, I don't know. I saw a chart online a while back but I forgot to bookmark it.

K, point taken.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

you also need to stop buying currency from the federal reserve... that winds up costing us ALOT of money.

 

[raheelp]

you also need to stop buying currency from the federal reserve... that winds up costing us ALOT of money.

Is involving the Fed neccesery in this topic? Is cutting federal spending simply not enough?

I found out that in 2005 we had 737 foreign bases but I can't find any operational costs. I doubt it adds up to 1 trillion.

 

[angrydragon]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=54307

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=90254

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=91432

 

[raheelp]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=54307

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=90254

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=91432

Thanks, I did a search and the threads I found didn't provide me with the answer I wanted.

Will look through and give impressions.

 

[tomveil]

Thanks, I did a search and the threads I found didn't provide me with the answer I wanted.

Will look through and give impressions.

I think realistically looking at it, getting rid of the income tax would have to be phased in. We have to build up some cash reserves before we cut it completely. There's a great thread around here that I can't seem to find but was called "Actual Budget numbers" or something similar.

Also, remember that cutting that income tax doesn't mean that the money is gone. It's in OUR pockets. Thus, we can spend it or save it, whatever we want to do. At least some of that extra money would end up in the hands of the government anyway due to other taxes