Gay Pride Event Turns Violent, Religious Protestor Attacked

[Brian4Liberty]

Can you please AT LEAST read the quote I was responding to which was a person who was at the event and said that the pastor was in fact shit talking these gay people entire time and it had nothing to do with the sign?

Actually, the eyewitness said that the "Pastor" (very disputable title) was quoting Old Testament verses and some variation of the classic "repent sinners or ye shall go to hell." I have asked him twice in this thread if there was any more to it than that, and there has been no response.

Does that qualify as "shit talking"?

You said he was shouting Bible verses and other Biblical references. His sign was obviously the exact same one that he takes to all concerts. No mention of gays at all.

He stood there shouting quotes from the Old Testament and telling everyone they were going to Hell and blah blah blahbidy blah.

Was he throwing personal insults at individuals, and insulting people's families and children?

 

[jmdrake]

I didn't defend anybody punching anybody in the mouth, those are words you put into my mouth. In fact, I specifically said that just because the guy was looking for a fight doesn't mean that it is 'right' to go give him one. My point was, this guy was literally asking for somebody to come up and punch him in the mouth and that is exactly what happened. I guarantee if it was YOU there with signs protesting gay people, you would not have been beat up because I'm convinced you wouldn't have done it with the same bad attitude.

Dannno, this is where I take offense at you.

Now, if you are of the opinion that being gay is just about the absolute worst thing a human can do and it is completely bringing down society, then I can sort of understand why you might be defending this guy's position.

So you really think that the only way someone can defend the position of someone who is carrying a sign in a public park is to think that being gay is the absolute worst thing a human can do? Really? To quote Trayvon Martin's girlfriend "that's retarded sir."

Edit: And has "Brian4Liberty" has pointed out again, even the person you are referring to has given no indication that the person with the sign did anything beyond quoting the Bible. Yes some people find some parts of the Bible offensive. And? I wouldn't do a gay protest period because that isn't my thing. But I could see myself at a protest saying something more offensive than what has so far been described in this thread.

 

[dannno]

People weren't attacking tubbo for being gay. They were attacking him for violating NAP. And your making this into a "Christians are being antigay" issue is just showing your own hypocrisy.

No, you're wrong, go to the first 1-3 pages, there were several people who were attacking him and saying that gay people are lesser individuals with fewer morals and that is why the pastor got attacked, because gay people are bad people.

 

[dannno]

What if a flamboyant gay dude went to a Christian even with over a hundred thousand Christians and sat at the entrance and started talking about how great homosexuality is, how great butt sex feels and how Christians are ignorant creationists who don't believe in science?

Eventually, somebody is probably going to go up to that guy and sock him. Should I use that person's action to reflect on Christianity as a whole? Because I feel like the whole first portion of this thread was an attempt to use this one individual's actions to reflect on gay people as a whole.

 

[jmdrake]

No, you're wrong, go to the first 1-3 pages, there were several people who were attacking him and saying that gay people are lesser individuals with fewer morals and that is why the pastor got attacked, because gay people are bad people.

Again your collectivism:

Now, if you are of the opinion that being gay is just about the absolute worst thing a human can do and it is completely bringing down society, then I can sort of understand why you might be defending this guy's position.

Several people != everyone. And those people in those first 1 - 3 pages didn't specifically say the person doing the attack was gay.

 

[jmdrake]

What if a flamboyant gay dude went to a Christian even with over a hundred thousand Christians and sat at the entrance and started talking about how great homosexuality is, how great butt sex feels and how Christians are ignorant creationists who don't believe in science?

Eventually, somebody is probably going to go up to that guy and sock him. Should I use that person's action to reflect on Christianity as a whole? Because I feel like the whole first portion of this thread was an attempt to use this one individual's actions to reflect on gay people as a whole.

I'm sure Christians would quickly disavow the actions of said Christian and I would question the Christian walk of anyone who said otherwise. If this person was at the entrance he was likely on private property or property that had been reserved for a private event. Hopefully someone would ask him to leave and have him escorted out if he refused. And if he went to a public park and held up a sign there isn't a Christian I know that would defend someone going over to the part and trying to take his sign and then physically assaulting him. That's the other part of this that you are ignoring. None of the worst stuff that has been alleged was actually happening by the time of the video.

 

[Wooden Indian]

As a Christian, I find it hypocritical to shout condemnation at others. I will proudly offer my beliefs to those who seek them, but this type of hateful publicity stunt is not the spreading of the gospel as mentioned in Mark and Mathew. In fact, it's warned against by Christ himself.

So, I do not defend the guy's actions... BUT I do take issue with the pot-bellied "tough guy" attacking him over his words. People are so offended over words. Guess the "Sticks and Stones" saying isn't tought by parents any longer.

As per usual with this type of event, there was no inoccent... just 2 or more morons colliding into each other.

Just another day in Merica.

 

[tod evans]

Some Ron Paul supporters have been known to scream at times. Or have you never heard the shouts of "End the Fed! End the Fed!" But your intollerance is showing. It's not that they were protesting that bothers you so much as that you don't approve their message. First amendment rights only for those who agree with you.

Is an "End the Fed!" chant analogous to a wild eyed psycho screaming at a woman and child that they're going to hell?

The simple fact of the matter is I do not abide by your NAP.

I don't condemn you or anyone else who does, nor do I ridicule you for your desire to practice behavior you find acceptable.

Whether or not curses were screamed at the person you refer to as "Tubo" neither of us know.

I assume that this person "Tubo" didn't just have a psychotic break and decide to wail on the "Preacher", sane people don't behave in that manner, then again sane people wouldn't curse strangers either.

I've said repeatedly that I'm not going to watch the video, I've also said if somebody curses my wife or child in public I will shut them up.

You and others choose to characterize this behavior as unwarranted/insane or unethical, I simply disagree.

There's no philosophical argument, interjecting rambunctious Ron Paul supporters, Christians/homos/racists or whomever that is going to convince me that if I determine I need to punch a stranger in the mouth for his language that I should instead hang my head and walk away, or worse engage in an argument with a person who needs to be taught that harsh words have consequences.

I have morals and ethics, they may not dovetail with yours but they're mine and they've stood the test of time in many situations.

Finally please do not suppose to tell me that it is the message instead of the behavior that I take offense to, again, you are wrong.

 

[jmdrake]

A) You have not watched the video

B) Nobody has claimed anyone was cursed at

C) I could care less if you don't abide "my NAP". I only hope for your sake that if you go off half cocked like you are ignorantly doing in this thread that the person you go up against isn't packing like George Zimmerman.

/thread.

Is an "End the Fed!" chant analogous to a wild eyed psycho screaming at a woman and child that they're going to hell?

The simple fact of the matter is I do not abide by your NAP.

I don't condemn you or anyone else who does, nor do I ridicule you for your desire to practice behavior you find acceptable.

Whether or not curses were screamed at the person you refer to as "Tubo" neither of us know.

I assume that this person "Tubo" didn't just have a psychotic break and decide to wail on the "Preacher", sane people don't behave in that manner, then again sane people wouldn't curse strangers either.

I've said repeatedly that I'm not going to watch the video, I've also said if somebody curses my wife or child in public I will shut them up.

You and others choose to characterize this behavior as unwarranted/insane or unethical, I simply disagree.

There's no philosophical argument, interjecting rambunctious Ron Paul supporters, Christians/homos/racists or whomever that is going to convince me that if I determine I need to punch a stranger in the mouth for his language that I should instead hang my head and walk away, or worse engage in an argument with a person who needs to be taught that harsh words have consequences.

I have morals and ethics, they may not dovetail with yours but they're mine and they've stood the test of time in many situations.

Finally please do not suppose to tell me that it is the message instead of the behavior that I take offense to, again, you are wrong.

 

[Athan]

Everyone remember. NONE of these people are Ron Paul supporters. Sympathy is not necessary.

 

[Acala]

I assume that this person "Tubo" didn't just have a psychotic break and decide to wail on the "Preacher", sane people don't behave in that manner,

Maybe. But drunk, hateful people do and I think the attacker was both, based on the video.

I've said repeatedly that I'm not going to watch the video, I've also said if somebody curses my wife or child in public I will shut them up.

Just remember, if you are the first one to resort to violence, the other person is legally justified in most states using such force as is necessary to stop you, incuding shooting you. So if you decide to punch someone to shut them up and they plug you, too bad for you and your family. And if they miss you and kill someone else, you very well may be facing a murder charge. While YOU may not support the NAP, the criminal law generally does.

 

[Don Lapre]

Just remember, if you are the first one to resort to violence, the other person is legally justified in most states using such force as is necessary to stop you, incuding shooting you.

We can hope.

 

[Acala]

One other point with respect to punching people because you don't like what they say. If you are carrying a gun (if not, why not?) and you go around punching people because they mouthed off, you are courting some serious trouble. I can't even imagine the scenario where that works out well for you.

And really, when you get right down to it, isn't it a little silly to get your undies in a bunch because you don't like the way some ape is modulating the little puffs of air that come out of his pie hole?

 

[tod evans]

One other point with respect to punching people because you don't like what they say. If you are carrying a gun (if not, why not?) and you go around punching people because they mouthed off, you are courting some serious trouble. I can't even imagine the scenario where that works out well for you.

And really, when you get right down to it, isn't it a little silly to get your undies in a bunch because you don't like the way some ape is modulating the little puffs of air that come out of his pie hole?

Here's where I think many here haven't read what I've typed..

First off There's slim to no chance that I'd have my family or myself in an environment as described in the OP so there would be no need for punching anyone.

Second, I don't live in an area, or travel, where it's necessary to even consider arming yourself for the purpose of self defense unless you're scared of deer or an occasional black bear.

If somebody is behaving in a manner that would warrant punching them in the mouth it's very likely I'd be late to the show, folks here-about are generally polite and respect one another and if somebody gets to acting out it never last for more than a couple seconds before they have several folks intervening, often with punches.

The mere idea of living in close proximity to groups of people that you'd find it necessary to carry arms around is repugnant to me and everyone I know. Which leads me to draw the conclusion that the majority of people responding in this thread live in urban areas and view this type of behavior as somewhat 'normal'...

I am perfectly comfortable taking my family to motorcycle rallies, floating down rivers or camping anywhere within driving distance and never feel the need to bear arms.

There must be some alternate reality where many live, either that or the cities are way worse that I imagined.

Read what I've written, not once did I defend the actions described in the OP, instead I've stated how I behave in my environment. I'm a peaceful man and although I'll not hesitate to strike another for insulting friend or family the idea of pumping another full of lead due to a fistfight is abhorrent.

I'm glad to live in the backwoods, after reading many of the posts in this thread, ya'll please stay put, I will too.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

You seem to have a problem understanding polite behavior, twisting and manipulating circumstances in hypotheticals.

Get off your whiny ass and go insult someone and see how well it works out for you.

Hell go insult a homo, then you can feel really bad when you get your ass handed to you....Or go insult a Christian, or farmer or biker, maybe a housewife........I don't know anyone who'll put up with someone hurling insults at them..

Tod, I'm not making up hypotheticals. This shit actually happens. Believe it or not, there are different kinds of people in this world who don't fit your definition of polite,if they met you, what you considered polite might be considered disrespectful to them. I'm not digging through my imagination. If you consider reading the Bible insulting, then you've already shown that your definition of impolite breaks from a lot of people in this country. So don't be surprised if you get YOUR ass beat for just being who you are, and you should have no problem with it because you would do the same, just with different standards for what's impolite.

People all over the world are way different and define a wide variety of things as offensive, so don't act like you're never going to find yourself in a situation where you might get your ass beat because someone was offended for reading something. Being "asked to stop" has nothing to do with it. I'm pretty sure the guy in the video was not "asked to stop". Tubbo was looking for a fight way more than the sign-guy was, and it was going to happen because he made it happen. He is the aggressor. Maybe you've heard the saying, "Your right to swing your fists stops at my nose". According to you, however, all someone has to do is find your swinging of fists offensive and they have every right to initiate violence against you.

Now tell me, how bad should this beating be? Should the person be brought to within an inch of their life, just bloodied and bruised, or given several hard slaps to the face? Since you are judge, jury, and punishment personnel, you probably should have already thought this through. It's a matter of principle, and yours is in no way consistent.

 

[tod evans]

Tod, I'm not making up hypotheticals. This shit actually happens. Believe it or not, there are different kinds of people in this world who don't fit your definition of polite,if they met you, what you considered polite might be considered disrespectful to them. I'm not digging through my imagination. If you consider reading the Bible insulting, then you've already shown that your definition of impolite breaks from a lot of people in this country. So don't be surprised if you get YOUR ass beat for just being who you are, and you should have no problem with it because you would do the same, just with different standards for what's impolite.

How in the world did you manage to equate reading the bible with impolite and then correlate that to me?

For Petes sake!

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I didn't defend anybody punching anybody in the mouth, those are words you put into my mouth. In fact, I specifically said that just because the guy was looking for a fight doesn't mean that it is 'right' to go give him one. My point was, this guy was literally asking for somebody to come up and punch him in the mouth and that is exactly what happened. I guarantee if it was YOU there with signs protesting gay people, you would not have been beat up because I'm convinced you wouldn't have done it with the same bad attitude.

When you're talking about 'attitudes' justifying aggression, you know you've left RPF and entered the world of a hypocrite.

 

[dinosaur]

How in the world did you manage to equate reading the bible with impolite and then correlate that to me?

For Petes sake!

That's what I got from what you said. What you see as a "wild eyed" curse might just be mild-mannered political speech to someone else. Mentioning the word hell doesn't make something a curse. Whoever this guy is, this issue is obviously important to him, enough so that he feels the need to take to the streets and protest. It isn't up to the rest of us to judge the validity of his protest. He thinks it is important. Protest isn't polite in nature.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

What if a flamboyant gay dude went to a Christian even with over a hundred thousand Christians and sat at the entrance and started talking about how great homosexuality is, how great butt sex feels and how Christians are ignorant creationists who don't believe in science?

Eventually, somebody is probably going to go up to that guy and sock him. Should I use that person's action to reflect on Christianity as a whole? Because I feel like the whole first portion of this thread was an attempt to use this one individual's actions to reflect on gay people as a whole.

That right there is what you call a hypothetical. "Somebody would probably..." doesn't exactly qualify as a watertight argument.

 

[tod evans]

That's what I got from what you said. What you see as a "wild eyed" curse might just be mild-mannered political speech to someone else. Mentioning the word hell doesn't make something a curse. Whoever this guy is, this issue is obviously important to him, enough so that he feels the need to take to the streets and protest. It isn't up to the rest of us to judge the validity of his protest. He thinks it is important. Protest isn't polite in nature.

In my mind (I won't watch the video) I picture a specific street "preacher" in the 80's, downtown Chicago, wild-eyed, spraying spittle while informing passersby to a one, that they've been damned to hell. In your face, hot fetid breath in your nostrils...

To this day, if a person of that ilk curses my wife or child by damning them to hell you can bet I will do as I've said.

Once again though, I will not intentionally put either myself or my family in that situation...

'If' the fellow referred to as 'Tubo' experienced the type of street "preacher" I described then I fully understand his reaction...But....If he was drunk and just being an ass then I don't......

I didn't read mention of his actions being fueled by alcohol until this page...I wasn't there, the one poster who was has stated the "preacher" was more akin to what I've described seeing in the 80's.