GAY MARRIAGE and the RON PAUL supporters ???

[Roxi]

Just as single mothers should not be raising children.

what in the hell?

so widows shouldn't be raising their children after the husband dies? or is that a double standard for you? or should the widow run out and find a husband immediately to help raise her child? or say a woman and man have a child, and the husband molests the child... should she stay with him anyway just so her kid has a dad? or say he beats on them?

thats so messed up i really just don't know what to say......... there are a lot of single moms out there not only doing a great job of raising their kids, but the kids also have positive male influences in their lives without having a dad around.

people like you make me want to give up on society and move to a deserted island.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Nothing draws out the lurkers and guarantees a hot thread than yet another "gay marriage" thread.

Hasn't this been settled yet...

 

[zach]

Nothing draws out the lurkers and guarantees a hot thread than yet another "gay marriage" thread.

Hasn't this been settled yet...

Nope, we have to argue about the same damn thing to pass the time.

 

[KoldKut]

...

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I think gay people are weird.

I think you mean queer...

 

[Theocrat]

Marriage is Divine and Objective

Perhaps this is true of the the "Christian" version of marriage that you adhere to in your church, nothing more.

YOu have no right to tell the individuals of other churches and religious organizations as to how they define "marriage" or "civil unions".

Marriage: "Marriage is a social, religious,spiritual, ***or*** legal union of individuals. This union may also be called matrimony, while the ceremony that marks its beginning is usually called a wedding and the married status created is sometimes called wedlock." - wiktionary

Most people who get married aren't hardcore religious like yourself, and they don't do it to please god, or adhere to his will. They do it because they love someone and want to commit to them for the rest of their life.

Where does the right for gay people come from? It can't come from nature because nature is impersonal and can't tell us anything about what is moral. You've also discarded the main ingredient to any marriage, and that is God. A marriage is a love triangle amongst the husband, wife, and God. He is the one Who makes a marriage legitimate, not the State, not mere individuals, and not a society.

If marriage is taken away from its God-ordained index, then marriage just becomes whatever a person wants it to be. Some person could marry a zucchini, and that would be a "marriage". Equally, a person could marry a horse, and that would be considered a "marriage". Where would we draw the line? If people want to be arbitrary about the definition of "marriage", then other concepts and institutions can be left up to personal interpretation and definition, like "freedom" or "capitalism".

 

[Standing Like A Rock]

Gay marriage is not a political issue, period.

 

[ClayTrainor]

Where does the right for gay people come from?

Their existence alone gives them the right to live their lives how they want so long as they do not infringe upon the rights of others. Two men saying they are 'married' in no way affects your life. It should not be against the law because it offends people. I support the church's right to deny gay marriages, but the government has no place saying anything about marriage or relationships.

It's irrelevant to real world issues and governance in a land of individual rights.

It can't come from nature because nature is impersonal and can't tell us anything about what is moral. You've also discarded the main ingredient to any marriage, and that is God. A marriage is a love triangle amongst the husband, wife, and God. He is the one Who makes a marriage legitimate, not the State, not mere individuals, and not a society.

Fine, but we will have disagreements as to what "God" is. The definition of marriage that i use comes from a thing called a dictionary, and it is not my personal opinion.

Marriage is just a word to describe a deep relationship or union between lovers. For most christians it only means between a man and a women, and for anyone who likes dictionary definitions, gender is irrelevant. Your Christian principles have no place in my life, or in the life of Gay men and women. They may define themselves as married if they want, and there is nothing you can do about it, because you live in a free country. That's how it should be anyways.

If marriage is taken away from its God-ordained index, then marriage just becomes whatever a person wants it to be. Some person could marry a zucchini, and that would be a "marriage". Equally, a person could marry a horse, and that would be considered a "marriage". Where would we draw the line? If people want to be arbitrary about the definition of "marriage", then other concepts and institutions can be left up to personal interpretation and definition, like "freedom" or "capitalism".

Draw the line at the government getting involved. It's fine for you to have your own personal beliefs, but it' swrong and immoral of you to try and force others to see it your way (making it illegal = force). If someone wants to be gay, and a church agrees to marry them, legally, religiously or whatever, that's none of your business. Exercise your freedom of speech, but don't advocate the use of government to stop it.

You help out absolutely no one by trying to ban gay marriage. It's a sick, selfish philosophy in my opinion.

I still got mad respect for you though, just strong disagreements

 

[speciallyblend]

100% against it. They have no right to marry. This is just silly. People aren't born gay folks, they chose it! Damn. Wake up people! They are freaks! Perverted nuts that need help.

really ricky? if so then that makes you bi-sexual and you choose to be straight. that is your reasoning not mine!! you are saying it is a choice, so that means you choose not to be gay . your thought process dictates that everyone chooses to be straight ,if they choose to be gay,making everyone bi-sexual by your reasoning!! now of course you ignore your bi-sexuality by choosing to be straight.


if you think being gay is a choice ,then you are clueless!! by your reasoning you are gay but choose not to be!!!

 

[speciallyblend]

so far 15% in this poll are against Liberty! I guess that is good news since 85% here believe in Liberty for all!!

 

[speciallyblend]

Gay marriage is not a political issue, period.

i agree but you better tell that to the failed gop!!

 

[Theocrat]

A Crime Against Nature Should Not Be Considered "Liberty"

so far 15% in this poll are against Liberty! I guess that is good news since 85% here believe in Liberty for all!!

You mean that 15% are against libertinism, not liberty. Liberty consists of moral responsibility and righteous character. Homosexual unions are immoral and have nothing to do with liberty whatsoever.

 

[ClayTrainor]

You mean that 15% are against libertinism, not liberty. Liberty consists of moral responsibility and righteous character. Homosexual unions are immoral and have nothing to do with liberty whatsoever.

Liberty:

"autonomy: immunity from arbitrary exercise of authority: political independence" - wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


"1: the quality or state of being free: a: the power to do as one pleases b: freedom from physical restraint c: freedom from arbitrary or despotic control d: the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges e: the power of choice" - Merriam-Websters dictionary



"1. freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence.
3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice" - Dictionary.Com


Dicitonaries are great sources for definitions. Gays should have the exact same right and freedoms as you, but i do support your church's right to deny gay marriage. Private organizations can do whatever they want. You have absolutely no right to try and use the government as force to stop people from getting married. The word marriage isn't in the constitution

If you restrict individuals the right to declare their love for on another in any way shape or form, using the government, then you are taking an anti-liberty position. This is a simple issue, and you are making it way too complex. Liberty isn't subjective to your specific view of the world. there is absolutely no good reason to stop consenting adults from performing a ceremony in which everyone involved is in agreement. You have no right to impose your will on others, and neither should the government.

You have to at least recognize that several liberty lovers disagree with you very strongly on this issue. You are in a huge minority as far as libertarians are concerned, for a good reason. Just lay off the gays, and focus on the politicians.

 

[Zolah]

You mean that 15% are against libertinism, not liberty. Liberty consists of moral responsibility and righteous character. Homosexual unions are immoral and have nothing to do with liberty whatsoever.

The majority of people here seem to agree that they want the government out of this "issue", allowing individuals and churches the 'liberty' of deciding for themselves what to do with their lives, it is not the business of anyone else. Do you agree with that, as I haven't seen you address this point yet.

I agree with this as it aligns with my minarchist leanings, that the government that governs best is the one that governs least, etc., that the government most definitely should not interfere in individuals engaging in consentual contracts.

 

[Theocrat]

Only Libertines Would Support Gay Marriage

Liberty:

"autonomy: immunity from arbitrary exercise of authority: political independence" - wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


"1: the quality or state of being free: a: the power to do as one pleases b: freedom from physical restraint c: freedom from arbitrary or despotic control d: the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges e: the power of choice" - Merriam-Websters dictionary



"1. freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.
2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence.
3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking, speaking, etc., according to choice" - Dictionary.Com


Dicitonaries are great sources for definitions. Gays should have the exact same right and freedoms as you, but i do support your church's right to deny gay marriage. Private organizations can do whatever they want. You have absolutely no right to try and use the government as force to stop people from getting married. The word marriage isn't in the constitution

If you restrict individuals the right to declare their love for on another in any way shape or form, using the government, then you are taking an anti-liberty position. This is a simple issue, and you are making it way too complex. Liberty isn't subjective to your specific view of the world. there is absolutely no good reason to stop consenting adults from performing a ceremony in which everyone involved is in agreement. You have no right to impose your will on others, and neither should the government.

You have to at least recognize that several liberty lovers disagree with you very strongly on this issue. You are in a huge minority as far as libertarians are concerned, for a good reason. Just lay off the gays, and focus on the politicians.

Where did I ever say that I wanted the government to use force in order to stop people from getting married? I've been arguing on principle and moral grounds that marriage, by definition, does not include homosexual unions. Therefore, it is not a right.

I agree that marriage should not be legalized by the State, for it is a private institution, given to the Church by God as a stewardship of authenticity. However, gays do not have any right to be engaged in marriage, by nature of their lifestyle, any more than a man has the right to marry a dog. Also, the State should not support their alleged "right" as an opposition to "religious discrimination".

You say there is no good reason to prohibit consenting adults from marriage, but I find that judgment just as subjective as you claim my worldview of marriage is. Of course there is good reason, and it is not based on a subjective opinion. God has forbidden gays from being in union with one another, and that's true whether one accepts it or not. That is the nature of truth, after all. If you say I should not impose my beliefs on others, then have you done the same towards me in your response?

As I've said before, true liberty is about moral responsibility and righteous character. It's sad that many members here do not realize that, and it shows a delinquency in what God has to say on the subject as well as what our Founders espoused. Even if my views are in the minority on this forum, that still doesn't invalidate them. Truth is not determined by statistics. Liberty does not incorporate open support for immorality, either. We live by the rule of law, not by the rule of what a particular group adheres to. Therefore, I have no problem with repeating myself when I say that gay marriage is not a right, and it is not a position which is supported by liberty. And, yes, I know full well the definition of liberty.

 

[idiom]

Where did I ever say that I wanted the government to use force in order to stop people from getting married? I've been arguing on principle and moral grounds that marriage, by definition, does not include homosexual unions. Therefore, it is not a right.

I agree that marriage should not be legalized by the State, for it is a private institution, given to the Church by God as a stewardship of authenticity. However, gays do not have any right to be engaged in marriage, by nature of their lifestyle, any more than a man has the right to marry a dog. Also, the State should not support their alleged "right" as an opposition to "religious discrimination".

You say there is no good reason to prohibit consenting adults from marriage, but I find that judgment just as subjective as you claim my worldview of marriage is. Of course there is good reason, and it is not based on a subjective opinion. God has forbidden gays from being in union with one another, and that's true whether one accepts it or not. That is the nature of truth, after all. If you say I should not impose my beliefs on others, then have you done the same towards me in your response?

As I've said before, true liberty is about moral responsibility and righteous character. It's sad that many members here do not realize that, and it shows a delinquency in what God has to say on the subject as well as what our Founders espoused. Even if my views are in the minority on this forum, that still doesn't invalidate them. Truth is not determined by statistics. Liberty does not incorporate open support for immorality, either. We live by the rule of law, not by the rule of what a particular group adheres to. Therefore, I have no problem with repeating myself when I say that gay marriage is not a right, and it is not a position which is supported by liberty. And, yes, I know full well the definition of liberty.

Are Heterosexual unions a right?

 

[idiom]

Also this poll doesn't seem to demarcate levels of government (fed/state), allow for people who are not entirely decided, ignores polygamy, and doesn't allow for say, the legalisation of lesbian couples (which can have off-spring) and male couples (which cannot).

 

[Bman]

I don't see any poll..Ron Paul himself is against gay marriage. Grab a clue. How many times do we have to go into this? tones

Tones sometimes I just want to....

Well no need to go that path. I'll just have to debunk your nonsense whenever it creeps out of you. You should only speak for yourself

YouTube - Gay Marriage in Texas

Fast forward to 3 minutes 34 seconds if it does not auotmatically.

 

[speciallyblend]

Also this poll doesn't seem to demarcate levels of government (fed/state), allow for people who are not entirely decided, ignores polygamy, and doesn't allow for say, the legalisation of lesbian couples (which can have off-spring) and male couples (which cannot).

that was not the point of the poll , it was to see who is against liberty , the only wrong answer is option 1.

reality it should be a NON-ISSUE TO THE GOV AND CHURCH. i have yet to see anyone being forced to marry their own sex or have i ever seen a church forced to marry gays!

no one can bitch about the state , if you do not want the state/church involved, do not agree to it! you can get married without the state or church by saying i do or i do not after the fact , then the only people can bitch as is themselves for going against their own promise!! people usually agree to get married by the state for tax benefits!

i didn't have to get married using the state/federal or minister. we made that choice not the gov or church!

 

[speciallyblend]

Where did I ever say that I wanted the government to use force in order to stop people from getting married? I've been arguing on principle and moral grounds that marriage, by definition, does not include homosexual unions. Therefore, it is not a right.

I agree that marriage should not be legalized by the State, for it is a private institution, given to the Church by God as a stewardship of authenticity. However, gays do not have any right to be engaged in marriage, by nature of their lifestyle, any more than a man has the right to marry a dog. Also, the State should not support their alleged "right" as an opposition to "religious discrimination".

You say there is no good reason to prohibit consenting adults from marriage, but I find that judgment just as subjective as you claim my worldview of marriage is. Of course there is good reason, and it is not based on a subjective opinion. God has forbidden gays from being in union with one another, and that's true whether one accepts it or not. That is the nature of truth, after all. If you say I should not impose my beliefs on others, then have you done the same towards me in your response?

As I've said before, true liberty is about moral responsibility and righteous character. It's sad that many members here do not realize that, and it shows a delinquency in what God has to say on the subject as well as what our Founders espoused. Even if my views are in the minority on this forum, that still doesn't invalidate them. Truth is not determined by statistics. Liberty does not incorporate open support for immorality, either. We live by the rule of law, not by the rule of what a particular group adheres to. Therefore, I have no problem with repeating myself when I say that gay marriage is not a right, and it is not a position which is supported by liberty. And, yes, I know full well the definition of liberty.

so you want liberty for your beliefs but no one elses?? please clarify how your not infringing on their liberty. maybe we should just outlaw your beliefs? turn the tables and see how you feel ,if we all here decided to take away your liberty to have your belief? i am not saying it is a right,but it is not your right really to have an opinion on someone elses life ,unless your being forced to marry your own sex. has anyone forced you to marry. the christian religion or any religion does not own a patent or copyright on the term marriage. if so ,please show me the legal documents and copyrights!!