Gates Foundation makes poop a priority, puts toilet innovation front and center

[donnay]

Actually it came from women who were tired of men telling them what to do. They wanted more control over their lives (isn't that liberty?)

Probably one of the earliest examples of this comes from Aristophanes's Lysistrata. http://www.sparknotes.com/drama/lysistrata/summary.html

You mean the phony feminist movement?

 

[donnay]

2 things:

1. I don't much care for that experiment, but it IS just that... an experiment. He's not funding a project to fill the sky with the stuff, but an experiment. I said before, I don't agree with everything the foundation does.

2. I didn't say the earth is over populated. I said the earth cannot support infinite population growth. I see no reason to believe that the trend of global population growth has changed, do you?

The world cannot support infinite population growth? And you know this how?

 

[PaulConventionWV]

If the efforts have been going on for 100 years, then they really suck since population in 1912 was 1.6 billion and it is now four and a half times larger (and forcast to continue to grow).

Last I heard, the forecast is that it is tapering. We can't have infinite people on the planet, correct, but the world will never let it reach that high. There is a certain point at which the population will taper off. That should be common sense to everyone here.

 

[jonhowe]

The world cannot support infinite population growth? And you know this how?

Because there is finite space on the face of the earth. Even if EVERYONE on the WHOLE earth lived in giant sky scrapers, if the population continued to go up FOREVER, space would run out. This is just a fact. To say otherwise would be to say that the clown car can support an INFINITE number of clowns, rather than just "a lot" of clowns.


MUCH more likely, however, would be a supply shortage, whether regional or global, that would limit population. This is likely what would happen if the population just continued growing.

Much more preferable, however, is if everyone had access to the healthcare, education, and freedom that only (I believe) the free market can provide, which leads to smaller families.

 

[donnay]

Because there is finite space on the face of the earth. Even if EVERYONE on the WHOLE earth lived in giant sky scrapers, if the population continued to go up FOREVER, space would run out. This is just a fact. To say otherwise would be to say that the clown car can support an INFINITE number of clowns, rather than just "a lot" of clowns.


MUCH more likely, however, would be a supply shortage, whether regional or global, that would limit population. This is likely what would happen if the population just continued growing.

Much more preferable, however, is if everyone had access to the healthcare, education, and freedom that only (I believe) the free market can provide, which leads to smaller families.

That's completely a fallacy that so many people are told over and over again. As I said before there are places on this earth humans haven't even explored or even inhabited for that matter.

However, it is most governments who starve and deprive the people, not over population and the people themselves.

Government was instrumental in breaking up the big families. The families who helped on family farms and were self-reliant and self-sufficient.

Have you happen to see the ghost cities China has?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17390729
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-images-cities-lying-completely-deserted.html

With a Billion people they still have room for a whole lot more.

Stop buying into the eugenicists propaganda.

 

[jonhowe]

That's completely a fallacy that so many people are told over and over again. As I said before there are places on this earth humans haven't even explored or even inhabited for that matter.

However, it is most governments who starve and deprive the people, not over population and the people themselves.

Government was instrumental in breaking up the big families. The families who helped on family farms and were self-reliant and self-sufficient.

Have you happen to see the ghost cities China has?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17390729
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-images-cities-lying-completely-deserted.html

With a Billion people they still have room for a whole lot more.

Stop buying into the eugenicists propaganda.

So. If people keep reproducing faster than they die, forever, until the sun supposedly explodes in a few billion years... there can NEVER be too many? Ever?

Just like, we can keep using fossil fuels at an increasing rate? Because they can never run out, right? I'm not saying there isn't a LOT of room, or a LOT of oil under the ground, I'm just saying that there IS finite room, and finite oil.


I'm not saying governments should feed people, or keep their populations down, or provide birth control, or break up families, or ANYTHING. I'm saying that it is a good thing for charities and foundations to do to help provide the OPTION of living a healthier, more educated, and freer life to those born into bad lots in life. It would be, as you point out, much easier to do WITHOUT government.

 

[donnay]

So. If people keep reproducing faster than they die, forever, until the sun supposedly explodes in a few billion years... there can NEVER be too many? Ever?

Just like, we can keep using fossil fuels at an increasing rate? Because they can never run out, right? I'm not saying there isn't a LOT of room, or a LOT of oil under the ground, I'm just saying that there IS finite room, and finite oil.


I'm not saying governments should feed people, or keep their populations down, or provide birth control, or break up families, or ANYTHING. I'm saying that it is a good thing for charities and foundations to do to help provide the OPTION of living a healthier, more educated, and freer life to those born into bad lots in life. It would be, as you point out, much easier to do WITHOUT government.

I am of the belief-- "Infinity and beyond." The thing is people are not reproducing faster than they die. One of the very reason the boomer generation is going to have trouble collecting any of the social (IN)Security they have paid into, because the next generation is not big enough to support them. Of course, I am not saying that SS is a good thing.

 

[jonhowe]

I am of the belief-- "Infinity and beyond." The thing is people are not reproducing faster than they die. One of the very reason the boomer generation is going to have trouble collecting any of the social (IN)Security they have paid into, because the next generation is not big enough to support them. Of course, I am not saying that SS is a good thing.

All that proves is that in this country the RATE of increase is not increasing. SS requires each generation to be massively larger than that before it, whereas the generations behind the boomers are only moderately larger. In other words, excess money supply is increasing faster than the population at this point.

Plus, even if the population of the U.S. WAS shrinking, we are but 1 country.

 

[donnay]

All that proves is that in this country the RATE of increase is not increasing. SS requires each generation to be massively larger than that before it, whereas the generations behind the boomers are only moderately larger. In other words, excess money supply is increasing faster than the population at this point.

Plus, even if the population of the U.S. WAS shrinking, we are but 1 country.

Yes and I pointed out China who alleges has a Billion people has ghost towns which could house millions and still they have room to spare. India as well. Too many holes in the theory of over population and sustainabilty--sort of like the Climate change Nazis who insist people are causing the climate to change.

 

[Zippyjuan]

I guess we will also have unlimited food and water supplies for this infinite people as well. Soylent green perhaps? Yes, the world can contain more people than it does now. But infinite? No. If the world can handle an infinite amount of people then one acre should also be able to hold an infinite number of people.

 

[ZenBowman]

I guess we will also have unlimited food and water supplies for this infinite people as well. Soylent green perhaps? Yes, the world can contain more people than it does now. But infinite? No. If the world can handle an infinite amount of people then one acre should also be able to hold an infinite number of people.

Exactly, and then an infinite money supply should also not be any problem whatsoever.

Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase. This is as true of humans in the finite space of a planetary ecosystem as it is of gas molecules in a sealed flask. The human question is not how many can possibly survive within the system, but what kind of existence is possible for those who do survive.
- Pardot Kynes

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe
- Thomas Jefferson

It is no coincidence that freedom dies as population density heads north.

 

[libertariantexas]

I guess this project is about helping poor people ( probably Africa ) get better access to sanitation so here is my project for the competition

Here it is.

It is based on reliable technology that has been tested for the past 2000 years.2 drunken sailors could make one of this in half a day.It could take longer but you could even make one of this without using any tools and it will cost you nothing but 1 or 2 meals for the duration it needs to be completed.

When it breaks it takes just 30 minutes to take apart the outer walls,and fill the hole with some dirt ( 100% Eco-friendly ) and another few hours to make a new one.

There are many diseases caused by poor sanitation, many of the worst of which are directly related to water being contaminated by fecal matter (that's whey your local water department tests the water regularly for FECAL coliform).

Most of us in the USA have been sitting fat, dumb and happy for over a hundred years, with minimal fear of death or serious disease from drinking contaminated water, but that isn't the case in much of the world. Diseases that once killed tens of thousands every year in the USA and Europe are all but unknown here, but they still sicken millions every year overseas, and kill many of those affected. We have modern sewage systems that take sewage away from us and treat it to make us safe. We also disinfect our water.

People in much of the world have none of that, their sanitation practices are like those in the West 200 or more years ago- essentially, they defecate wherever they can, and live their lives amongst the waste, which also contaminates their water.

Diseases like cholera (which was effectively eradicated by the use of chlorination), dysentery, and schistosomiasis are extremely rare here, but are commonplace overseas. Millions die from these diseases.

Uneducated Chuckleheads in the USA, most of whom have never been anyplace more primitive than Canada can sit and laugh, but this is a real problem in much of the world.

I don't know whether Gate's initiative will prove effective, but it might help, and this is no joke. He is spending a ton of his own money to help others, and all you have is silly jokes and stupid comments? You look foolish and childish when you mock someone for trying to do good and fix a problem that you know you know nothing about.

Gate's initiative may or not prove effective, but he is trying to help people- this isn't "liberal" or whatever other silly labels you want to put on it.

Regarding outhouses. Yes, they have been around forever. NO, they are NOT effective at preventing waterborne illness. Outhouses were not effective against, for example, cholera- a disease which took many lives in England and the USA even though we had outhouses.

 

[donnay]

I guess we will also have unlimited food and water supplies for this infinite people as well. Soylent green perhaps? Yes, the world can contain more people than it does now. But infinite? No. If the world can handle an infinite amount of people then one acre should also be able to hold an infinite number of people.

No people live infinitely--of course the eugenicists are trying their hardest to figure that out. David Rockefeller's time is running out.

 

[pcosmar]

Regarding outhouses. Yes, they have been around forever. NO, they are NOT effective at preventing waterborne illness. Outhouses were not effective against, for example, cholera- a disease which took many lives in England and the USA even though we had outhouses.

You apparently have not been reading the thread. This has been addressed.

Actually,, that is more due to cities and settlements pumping raw sewage into the water supply..
And in those areas of the world ,, to dead bodies and mass graves.
Sewage in the ground does not have that problem.

Perhaps they can just build decent sewage treatment if they wish,,
Gates has actually been focused in other directions.. like population control.
so color me skeptical.

Septic systems and outhouses are not the cause of the spread of disease. It is from Population centers pumping RAW WASTE into water supplies. That simply does not happen with an outhouse or proper septic system.

And outhouses,,even solar powered outhouses are not practical in cities.
They need sewage treatment and water treatment facilities.

Focusing on the type of toilet,,, is a whole nother thing.

I would much rather see research and development of Desalination and water treatment,, (without adding poisons)

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Exactly, and then an infinite money supply should also not be any problem whatsoever.

Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase. This is as true of humans in the finite space of a planetary ecosystem as it is of gas molecules in a sealed flask. The human question is not how many can possibly survive within the system, but what kind of existence is possible for those who do survive.
- Pardot Kynes

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe
- Thomas Jefferson

It is no coincidence that freedom dies as population density heads north.

Sounds like government propaganda to me. This idea that freedom diminishes as numbers increase is just pure conjecture. Thomas Jefferson, I believe, was referring to the hardships of maintaining a Republican form of government with a large land mass and a large number of people. This is discussed quite a bit in the Anti-Federalist papers. I don't think he was talking about the simple fact that denser numbers of human beings limit an individual's freedom just by virtue of the fact that there are more people around them. This is evidenced by the fact that he used the word "corrupt". He didn't mean individually. He meant the government would become corrupt. The only way to prevent that is to prevent the government from feeding us this population control propaganda.

Besides, the fact that Thomas Jefferson was addressing this when the Earth's population was a mere fraction of what it is now is just more evidence that all our paranoia is not justified. If Thomas Jefferson was paranoid when the Earth was that small, look how we've survived since then. No doubt we'll survive just as well since now even with all this paranoia from overpopulation. I don't know if we are growing or not, but at some point, the Earth's population will naturally stabilize as has been shown to happen in populations of animals.

 

[donnay]

Exactly, and then an infinite money supply should also not be any problem whatsoever.

Beyond a critical point within a finite space, freedom diminishes as numbers increase. This is as true of humans in the finite space of a planetary ecosystem as it is of gas molecules in a sealed flask. The human question is not how many can possibly survive within the system, but what kind of existence is possible for those who do survive.
- Pardot Kynes

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe
- Thomas Jefferson

It is no coincidence that freedom dies as population density heads north.

Freedoms die because people are born into slavery from the get-go. If they are taught freedom and understand it, the more the merrier.

"Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth." ~George Washington

"A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins." ~Benjamin Franklin

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" ~Benjamin Franklin

"Human nature itself is evermore an advocate for liberty. There is also in human nature a resentment of injury, and indignation against wrong. A love of truth and a veneration of virtue. These amiable passions, are the "latent spark"... If the people are capable of understanding, seeing and feeling the differences between true and false, right and wrong, virtue and vice, to what better principle can the friends of mankind apply than to the sense of this difference?" ~John Adams

“If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.” ~Thomas Jefferson

“I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”
!Thomas Jefferson

"It is better to tolerate that rare instance of a parent’s refusing to let his child be educated, than to shock the common feelings by a forcible transportation and education of the infant against the will of his father." ~Thomas Jefferson

"No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders." ~Samuel Adams

"...if the citizens neglect their Duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made, not for the public good so much as for selfish or local purposes; corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the Laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizen will be violated or disregarded." ~Noah Webster

 

[jonhowe]

Yes and I pointed out China who alleges has a Billion people has ghost towns which could house millions and still they have room to spare. India as well. Too many holes in the theory of over population and sustainabilty--sort of like the Climate change Nazis who insist people are causing the climate to change.

You have yet to address my point. Human civilization is only thousands of years old. We could have BILLIONS left to go. If the earth's population continues to increase for even just another thousand years, not to mention billions, you REALLY think there wont be over crowding, stretched resources etc?
REALLY?



Also, to address brought up before (not by you Donnay, I don't think), has anyone found any evidence this funding was NOT private money from the foundation?

 

[ZenBowman]

Sounds like government propaganda to me. This idea that freedom diminishes as numbers increase is just pure conjecture.

Governments prefer more people, it makes them easier, not harder, to control.

Pretty much everything you spout sounds like big gov propaganda.

 

[roho76]

BSOD (Blue Screen of Death)

 

[PBrady]

As usual, the conspiracy theorists seem to have never heard of Occam's razor. The hoops you people are jumping through to bash a private investor for a selfless act is flat out nuts.