G Edward Griffin how to restore freedom: We need to to be POWER SEEKERS

[AmericaFyeah92]

We should look to the 1930's-40's America First for inspiration. Why not start a broad coalition whose sole aim is opposing war? It could be a "big tent" organization that welcomed libertarians, conservatives, greens, liberal progressives, disillusioned vets, etc. It could be a major voting bloc, and a powerful force in politics without being corrupted by the "system."

America First is SUCH a good name for it, but I think we'll be opening ourselves up to the anti-semite label if we re-use it, or be accused of being Hitler apologists. What would a better name be?

The moderate majority of the members could attend rallies, launch protests, boycotts, etc. Whereas the hard-core few could take part in some..."direct" action

 

[Ethek]

We should look to the 1930's-40's America First for inspiration. Why not start a broad coalition whose sole aim is opposing war? It could be a "big tent" organization that welcomed libertarians, conservatives, greens, liberal progressives, disillusioned vets, etc. It could be a major voting bloc, and a powerful force in politics without being corrupted by the "system."

America First is SUCH a good name for it, but I think we'll be opening ourselves up to the anti-semite label if we re-use it, or be accused of being Hitler apologists. What would a better name be?

The moderate majority of the members could attend rallies, launch protests, boycotts, etc. Whereas the hard-core few could take part in some..."direct" action

War is a polarized issue. Its divisive not a uniter. People too insecure to let others be will seek it. Those opposed to it will oppose it, though likely not for the same reasons that you would.

Griffin has a good primise

 

[stilltrying]

The System has been run by people who have different principles than defending individual liberty. We want to change the System, and that can only be done by seeking power to be the ones in control of the System.

Once we are in control, we can repeal the income tax and replace it with nothing.

Abolish and/or privatize government agencies not in compliance with the Constitution.

End the Fed.

Do anything else that will promote freedom and discourage corruption.

Condemning the System accomplishes nothing, which the Establishment tolerates because it does exactly that.

Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

"Once we are in control", I thought libertary minded people dont want control hence the Nietszche quote as if it so easy to guard yourself against seeking MORE power once you get it.

Population madness sprouts from politics yet we at RPFs are immune to it, I dont buy it.

 

[MN Patriot]

Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

"Once we are in control", I thought libertary minded people dont want control hence the Nietszche quote as if it so easy to guard yourself against seeking MORE power once you get it.

Population madness sprouts from politics yet we at RPFs are immune to it, I dont buy it.

You didn't watch the video, did you?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

We should look to the 1930's-40's America First for inspiration. Why not start a broad coalition whose sole aim is opposing war? It could be a "big tent" organization that welcomed libertarians, conservatives, greens, liberal progressives, disillusioned vets, etc. It could be a major voting bloc, and a powerful force in politics without being corrupted by the "system."

America First is SUCH a good name for it, but I think we'll be opening ourselves up to the anti-semite label if we re-use it, or be accused of being Hitler apologists. What would a better name be?

The moderate majority of the members could attend rallies, launch protests, boycotts, etc. Whereas the hard-core few could take part in some..."direct" action

How about some variant of "Americans United For Liberty"?

 

[stilltrying]

You didn't watch the video, did you?

I have seen it three times. Yes at the end he can hear his grandchildren saying papa, papa. So now what? Suppose you get to be the mayor, do you think its easy to even run a small rural town? You have citizens just the same all asking for this or that, what are you gonna do? You think their is no pressure in this situations and that you won't cave? People nowadays want something from you plain and simple. Are you going to shun them all? or only those that don't coincide with the constitution? Say you don't like seatbelt tickets, which most people don't, are you gonna repeal it in your town? Are you gonna allow liquor to be sold at all stores everyday till as late as they want to to stay open? Would you raise taxes if there was an unexpected shortfall somewhere? What if you roads are crap, are you gonna ask the STATE to send you money to fix them or are you gonna raise taxes? It is a system designed to chew people up and spit them out. How long do you think you will last if you shun everyone? This is a very short short list of things that just popped off the top of my head that I am sure a piddly ole mayor has to deal with, not the good ole boys club.

 

[andrewh817]

The problem is, by seeking power in a sense you're saying it's okay to have that ridiculous amount of power as long as you don't use it for bad things. Which goes against individualism completely.

 

[MN Patriot]

The problem is, by seeking power in a sense you're saying it's okay to have that ridiculous amount of power as long as you don't use it for bad things. Which goes against individualism completely.

Why is having power completely against individualism? That makes no sense.

Power is like a gun. It can be used for bad things or good things. Seek and use power for good things. Abolish income taxes. Reduce the size of government. Liberate entrepreneurialism.

The condemnation of power by libertarians is as irrational as the condemnation of guns by gun control advocates.

 

[MN Patriot]

I have seen it three times. Yes at the end he can hear his grandchildren saying papa, papa. So now what? Suppose you get to be the mayor, do you think its easy to even run a small rural town? You have citizens just the same all asking for this or that, what are you gonna do? You think their is no pressure in this situations and that you won't cave? People nowadays want something from you plain and simple. Are you going to shun them all? or only those that don't coincide with the constitution? Say you don't like seatbelt tickets, which most people don't, are you gonna repeal it in your town? Are you gonna allow liquor to be sold at all stores everyday till as late as they want to to stay open? Would you raise taxes if there was an unexpected shortfall somewhere? What if you roads are crap, are you gonna ask the STATE to send you money to fix them or are you gonna raise taxes? It is a system designed to chew people up and spit them out. How long do you think you will last if you shun everyone? This is a very short short list of things that just popped off the top of my head that I am sure a piddly ole mayor has to deal with, not the good ole boys club.

You list a bunch of very valid concerns. These are what we need to address as we make plans to seek power.

I was on the parks committee of my town for a few years, and these are the same issues I struggled with. Other people on the committee would be euphoric about some state or federal grant they could use. When I raised my reluctance about it, all of them would say "but some other city will get that money", like it was some sort of contest. In a way it is, we paid the taxes to the state and federal government, and they were doling it back out. Ending income taxes would pretty much solve that issue.

Roads are largely paid for with gas taxes, which in my mind is about as fair as you can get. The more gas you use, the more you use the roads. Bigger vehicles wear out the roads faster, and use more gas. They have formulas for distributing money for locally maintained roads. Privatizing the roads may look good in theory to libertarians, but most people think it is a wacky idea. The roads should be at the bottom of the priority list.

 

[cheapseats]

Once we are in control . . .

CREEE-PY.

I understand what you mean, I understand the problem. But I'm tellin' ya, CREEE-PY.

 

[cheapseats]

The wisdom of the ages is that POWER CORRUPTS.

The fanciful notion that "liberty-minded" HUMANS are immune to the flaws and foibles that have bedeviled man's lordship over man for all of recorded history is exactly that, fanciful.

Fanciful Notion, thy other name is Magical Thinking.

We all recognizes this, Griffin recognizes this and addresses it with his Creed of Freedom: http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/freedom.cfm?fuseaction=creed.

Are you suggesting that WORDS ON PAPER will nullify a reliable historical trend?

Words on paper that represent concepts that guide our actions.

In other words, like the Constitution? Except that "your" people WILL abide by whatever lofty words are memorialized in fixed written form?

It's a bad bet.

 

[cheapseats]

We should look to the 1930's-40's America First for inspiration. Why not start a broad coalition whose sole aim is opposing war? It could be a "big tent" organization that welcomed . . .

IS. WELCOMES. ACTIVE TENSE. Not hopeful/wistful tense segueing blandly to past tense.

ANTI-WAR is not a Moovement, rather, A LINE IN THE SAND. Naturally, ANTI-WAR folk extend a MOST inclusionary invitation to ALL ANTI-WAR folk to stand on the line together. Safety in numbers, blaze of glory, either way is fine by me.

You gotta say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH . . . and MEAN it, for a Change.

War is a polarized issue. Its divisive not a uniter.

No doubt about it.

Let us ABSOLUTELY separate the wheat from the chaff. Also the Warhawks, Chickenshits and Moneygrubbing Wannabe Robber Barons from the American Patriots and the Christians.

[PeeCee Qualifier: American Patriots and Christians are neither identical nor mutually exclusive. Think, Venn Diagram.]

 

[MN Patriot]

CREEE-PY.

I understand what you mean, I understand the problem. But I'm tellin' ya, CREEE-PY.

Would you rather THEY be in control?

Words on paper that represent concepts that guide our actions.

In other words, like the Constitution? Except that "your" people WILL abide by whatever lofty words are memorialized in fixed written form?

It's a bad bet.

It is a much better bet than having socialists and statists in control. So, I guess this means you want Ron Paul to lose, Rand Paul, Schiff, and all the other libertarian minded candidates to lose?

You've heard the saying: lead, follow or get out of the way. I honestly don't see what your proposal is. You have none, except the continual criticisms of wanting to seek power.

Like I said earlier: The condemnation of power by libertarians is as irrational as the condemnation of guns by gun control advocates.

 

[cheapseats]

Like I said earlier: The condemnation of power by libertarians is as irrational as the condemnation of guns by gun control advocates.

You are wrong.

If you said it earlier, you were wrong then, too.

HAVING CAPABILITY TO RESIST POWER is NOT the same thing as HAVING POWER.

 

[constituent]

They will immediately start to reconstitute power.

You are an individual actor within the system. If even only you can be reached, that's one person that can make a difference (however small).

Grains of sand. We're the salt of the earth, or we're nothing.

 

[cheapseats]

Power seekers are important.

No foolin'.

People who SEEK POWER should be viewed with GREATEST SKEPTICISM, not cut widest berth.

 

[MN Patriot]

HAVING CAPABILITY TO RESIST POWER is NOT the same thing as HAVING POWER.

Please explain this capability to resist power? Is this capability some magical mystery power that comes from a wonderful crystal that grows on the planet Utopia?

If you have capability to resist power, then it means you have power. Oh NO! Contradiction!

 

[cheapseats]

Come on people Revolution 101

You gain the popular support of the people by forcing the government to use violence against the people.

It's not the ONLY way, however.

You can PAY them, like Government and the Big Boys do. Y'know, GIVE them something that makes their lives better. Become an ASSET/ALLY instead of a BROW BEATER/CAMPAIGNER. NOTHING sez Same Old Same Old to exhausted, depleted Taxpayers like Running For Office.

You can SCARE them, like Government and the Big Boys do.

You can impose Economic Sanctions, like Government and the Big Boys do.

Among things people need to get straight is that Lifetime Political Activism is its OWN Statism with its OWN highflying Elite.

 

[cheapseats]

Please explain this capability to resist power? Is this capability some magical mystery power that comes from a wonderful crystal that grows on the planet Utopia?

It means putting a bullet between your eyes rather than PERMITTING you to FORCE your-self-your-shit on me.

If you have capability to resist power, then it means you have power. Oh NO! Contradiction!

Being Libertarian means never being wrong, right?

 

[constituent]

Please explain this capability to resist power? Is this capability some magical mystery power that comes from a wonderful crystal that grows on the planet Utopia?

If you have capability to resist power, then it means you have power. Oh NO! Contradiction!

You're conflating "power" with "control." So is G. Edward Griffin, IIRC.