Freedom to sell one of your kidneys

[Cal for Paul]

I believe free adults should be free to sell a kidney for money if they wish to do so. I have not heard Ron Paul address this but I would guess that he agrees with me.

My mom was on dialysis for 3 years waiting for a kidney transplant. One day the doctor told us that the odds of finding a good kidney were slim and her poor health did not make her a good candidate for the national transplant list. One day they called to get verbal confirmation to have my mom taken off the list nobody was home to answer the call so they left a message, they next day we were supposed to return the call, but at 4 am they called saying their was an exact match, the odds against that were in the millions and we should rush her down to prep her for surgery.

Things turned out well for my mom. But every year thousands of Americans aren't so lucky and die waiting for a kidney. Of course this is thanks to former Senator Al Gore who authored the National Transplant Act of 1984 which outlawed the selling of one's kidneys.

If the federal government hadn't outlawed this, the free market would ensure that just about anyone who needed a kidney would be able to get one. Right now the national waiting list is very long, a 5 year average. If willing living donors got into the equation that waiting list would nearly disappear and even poor people who couldn't afford to buy kidney would hardly have to wait for one.

Ironically it is Iran (axis of evil) who is setting a good example for this. They have legalized willing adults to sell their own kidneys and their waiting list virtually disappeared.

Right now a black market exists in India and China, because it is illegal.

John Stossel has said he supports the legalization of kidney selling, I wish Dr. Paul would too. I am sure Al Gore's bill is unconstitutional. Too bad Dr. Paul wasn't in congress in 1984 when the bill passed. Luckily I still have my mom, but losing 3000 Americans (same as 9-11) every year because of the federal government's banning organ selling is a tragic secret.

Has anyone ever heard Dr. Paul's stance on this?

 

[The One]

I would sell my third testicle if it were legal. It just gets in the way, and I really don't need it.

 

[phixion]

This should be completely legal - I don't even understand the idea behind making it illegal.

Why was it outlawed?

Pete

 

[Banana]

I believe it was outlawed on the premises that by selling organs, it may give people wrong incentives (e.g. needlessly self-mutilating for a few bucks, murdering others, or harvesting organs from recently deceased). Something like that.

 

[phixion]

I believe it was outlawed on the premises that by selling organs, it may give people wrong incentives (e.g. needlessly self-mutilating for a few bucks, murdering others, or harvesting organs from recently deceased). Something like that.

Needlessly self-mutilating for a few bucks? Who is Al Gore to decide I can't sell a kidney to take the briefcase full of money straight to the Porsche dealers.

That's my business, not that I would buy a Porsche. I would chose a home or set up my own business without lending the capital!

I'd trade in a kidney for $50,000-$100,000 - more toward the latter.

Pete

 

[Cal for Paul]

I believe it was outlawed on the premises that by selling organs, it may give people wrong incentives (e.g. needlessly self-mutilating for a few bucks, murdering others, or harvesting organs from recently deceased). Something like that.

Maybe that's why they outlawed it, I guess Al Gore would really know what he was thinking. But we know that harvesting organs from others didn't need this law to be illegal that is in itself an act of violence. However if I want to sell MY kidney that would be MY choice as a free adult. I am allowed to donate it for free, but if I get money that makes me a criminal. When the need for kidneys is artificially high because of prohibition that is what creates a black market.

 

[Fox McCloud]

I'm for it--though I'd never personally do it...but hey, I'm not going to make other people's decisions for them.

It's funny, on the game "Jennifer Government" this is an issue that comes up that you can vote on....sadly, the game isn't very realistic (it takes EVERYTHING to an extreme)...so, if you pass the legislation, it eventually tells you "college students routinely sell one of their kidneys to pay for college". Of course, everything is like that in that game.

 

[Banana]

It's funny, on the game "Jennifer Government" this is an issue that comes up that you can vote on....sadly, the game isn't very realistic (it takes EVERYTHING to an extreme)...so, if you pass the legislation, it eventually tells you "college students routinely sell one of their kidneys to pay for college". Of course, everything is like that in that game.

It was an inside job.





(Sorry couldn't resist... )

 

[phixion]

Here's a charming story from here in the UK I've found (it's also illegal here):

"Just ask Daniel Tuck. This week, the 25-year-old from Birmingham became the first person in Britain to be charged with trying to sell a kidney on the internet.

He had posted an advertisement on a website for dialysis patients in a bid to pay off £24,000 worth of debts. It read: "I am a white male of completely perfect health. Why risk getting a kidney from a Third World country? You don't have to!"

He was caught and pleaded guilty to 'inviting the supply of human tissue for transplant' and faces up to three months in jail and a £5,000 fine."

I find the government intrusion in to this appauling. Thousands dieing each year from no available kidney's and thousands suffering financial woes who would happily sell a kidney or body part just so their life is worth living again.

Pete

 

[Cal for Paul]

I find the government intrusion in to this appauling. Thousands dieing each year from no available kidney's and thousands suffering financial woes who would happily sell a kidney or body part just so their life is worth living again.

I couldn't agree more Pete.

I believe this is a good example of why the freedom movement is so important world wide. We think we are free, but something like Al Gore's law almost took my mom away. A lot of people I know don't understand why I became such a Ron Paul supporter or why in 2008 someone would still speak so much about freedom, we are still not free.

 

[NeoRayden]

A good kidney from a young adult is worth $86,000 the last ime I checked the black market here in the US.

Yes I concidered selling one however I chose not to after all.

 

[Kludge]

If you need money badly enough to sell your kidney, it's hardly "unnecessary"

Hmmm... I didn't know kidneys ran that high. I might check into it and get a new car =P

 

[familydog]

Well, if we can sell organs legall,y it would solve the homeless problem.

 

[The One]

A good kidney from a young adult is worth $86,000 the last ime I checked the black market here in the US.

Yes I concidered selling one however I chose not to after all.

How much for a shriveled-up, old liver?

 

[Zippyjuan]

I found a good article that takes a look at the issue for those who would like to learn more.
One question can be should organs go to the highest bidder or who needs them the most.
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119490273908090431.html

There is always the risk of a case similar to the one recently in India where a doctor would kidnap people and steal a kidney from them to sell.
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/health&id=5943675

KATMANDU, Nepal (AP) - February 7, 2008 -- Police arrested the alleged mastermind of an India-based kidney transplant racket at a resort in southern Nepal, officials said Friday.

Authorities said Amit Kumar ran the ring from a New Delhi suburb that allegedly removed kidneys from up to 500 poor laborers and sold their organs to wealthy clients.
Police suspect that dozens of doctors were involved in the kidney racket, which had a waiting list of some 40 people hailing from at least five countries

 

[Cal for Paul]

I found a good article that takes a look at the issue for those who would like to learn more.
One question can be should organs go to the highest bidder or who needs them the most.
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119490273908090431.html

There is always the risk of a case similar to the one recently in India where a doctor would kidnap people and steal a kidney from them to sell.
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/health&id=5943675

Why is the India situation more likely if it is legal? Seems the India case makes for a good argument to legalize it. The black market in India exists because of governments creating kidney shortages.

 

[Banana]

Does anyone know if there are medical ramification for only having one kidney?

 

[brandon]

This is absurd. Why is this illegal?

smash the state

 

[Cal for Paul]

Here is a an article that John Stossel wrote a few weeks ago about Kidney selling.

That same day's Journal also included a story on the "radical" idea of kidney selling.

Why is selling an organ "radical"? Banning the sale of kidneys kills thousands of people a year. That should be considered "radical."

Today, 74,000 Americans wait for kidney transplants while enduring painful, exhausting and expensive hours hooked up to dialysis machines. The machines are technological miracles that keep many alive, but dialysis is not nearly as good as a real kidney. Every day, about 17 Americans die while waiting for a transplant.

Yet plenty of Americans would give up a kidney if they could just be paid for their trouble and risk. Ruth Sparrow of St. Petersburg, Fla., ran a newspaper ad saying: "Kidney, runs good, $30,000 or best offer." She told "20/20" that she got a couple of serious calls, but then the newspaper refused to run her ad again, warning her that she might be arrested.

Why isn't someone with two healthy organs allowed to put one on the market? Because in 1984, U.S. Rep. Al Gore sponsored a law making the sale of organs punishable by five years in jail. Congress couldn't contain its enthusiasm; the bill passed 396 to 6.

So giving someone a kidney is a good deed, but selling the same kidney is a felony.

When I confronted Dr. Brian Pereira of the National Kidney Foundation about that, he said, "The current system functions extremely well." I asked him how the system could be working "extremely well" when 17 people die every day because they can't get kidneys. He said that the "desperate (situation) doesn't justify an unwise policy decision."

The Kidney Foundation fears that poor people would be "exploited." But what gives the foundation the right to decide for poor people? The poor are as capable as others of deciding what trade-offs to make in life. No one forces them to give up an organ. To say the poor are too desperate to resist a dangerous temptation is patronizing.

But gatekeepers like Dr. Pereira say there should be "no barter, no sale of organs. That's where we have to step in." When I asked him who that "we" is that has the right to "step in," he replied, "The government (and) the professional societies."

That conceit -- that the government and "professional societies" must decide for all of us, and the underlying hostility toward commerce -- kills people.

Money shouldn't make giving up an organ suspect. As one kidney patient told me before he died, "The doctors make money, the hospitals make money, the organ procurement organizations make money. Everybody gets something except for the donor!"

If you think it's immoral to sell an organ, don't do it. But sick people shouldn't have to die because some people despise markets.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/01/hating_free_enterprise.html

 

[misterbig]

I believe strongly in liberty and personal freedom. Under ideal circumstances, I feel it would be perfectly acceptible to sell a kidney.

Unfortunately however, I think in our current monetary environment (i.e. fiat currency with bankers controlling the world) allowing the sale of kidneys is to invite trouble.

A poster gave the example of a man who was auctioning his kidney in order to pay off some debts.

If we legalize the selling of organs, and the sellers' primary motivation is to escape burdensome artificial debts caused by a morally bankrupt system of currency and fractional reserve banking, then we invite further exploitation of the people.

I vote NO to kidney selling as long as we have fiat money and a country run by special interests.