Freedom has no hope...

[osan]

You say the left is "organized".

In what respect?

They have money backing, for one. I wrote in the OP the another major way: they show up. Re-read the OP - it's all in there... or enough, anyway.

Well, in their economic philosophy. But you cannot attack the philosophical juggernaut socialist thinking has become on any kind of national or political level. But show some liberals on the local level how real economics can improve their neighborhood, and you've converted them. It won't matter how young or socialist they thought they were.

I cannot concur. Point your eyeballs and behold what is now happening almost daily in places like Portland. Observe the blind intransigence of the people seeking the destruction of that which has enabled their ability to spew their stupidities. There is no amount of real world, factual, damning evidence that will convince them of anything that departs with the notions to which they have welded themselves. You are assuming the least modicum of individual integrity and rational capacity. That is a deep error. The number of "lefties" of sufficient intellect and honesty to be converted is, proportionally speaking, vanishingly small. Hatred drives them first and foremost, thereby blinding them to any objective truth they may encounter, said hatred coming reflexively to the fore in categorical and violent rejection of facts that stand before their very eyes.

The real war is related to economics.

Perhaps, but it is waged through perception and action pursuant thereto.

Organization remains one of the Regressives' central advantages. They are sufficiently one in mind, the goal binding them being the simplistic notion of destruction of the status quo. This single goal frees them from having to think beyond the level of an amoeba. Entropy over orderliness. The easy intensity of raging hatred over the laborious requirements of love and reason. These organizationally architectural elements leave the Regressives in a state of far higher efficiency and resulting effectiveness. That is why they are edging their way inexorably toward their simpleton's goal and we have thus far proven incapable of so much as slowing them down, much less stopping them.

 

[osan]

What would a victory for your Freedom look like in everyday life? How would you describe what you want to achieve in a specific way to people so its not abstract?

First major goal: restoration of the properly administered Constitutional Republic. Once achieved, we rest a beat as life normalizes and we examine what we have on hand such that we may then decide how to proceed from there.

Under such a republic, people come and go as they please, associate as they please, hire and fire as the please, arm as they please, acquire hold and dispose of as they please, have sex as they please with whom they please, all without the butting noses of government in their bootholes. Commensurately, they are held full accountable for the results of their actions not just or even primarily by government, but by their fellows. When one freely chooses to enter the home of another without permission to rob or steal, no risk would befall the man removing from the book of life he who so chose to violate the sacred right of his fellow man. In other words, the statements and deeds of each man would carry very real and possibly very immediate consequences. Once acclimated to this, you would witness a very sudden and extreme increase in the apparent IQ of people who today appear as functional imbeciles.

There would be no welfare state. There would be no police as we currently know them to exist. Government would have but one function: the protection and guaranty of every man's equal claims to life. That role would be made functionally manifest through the means of common defense and the courts. The armed forces would be all of the people. The courts would adjudicate matters of equity, tort, and crime for which the people were unable to settle by other valid means. That would be it. 99.9% of all so-called "Law" would be scrubbed from existence. No more drug laws, firearms laws, those falsely criminalizing prostitution or doing business on Sundays, etc.

If we retained legal standing for corporate entities, great examination and possible rearchitecting of the statutes pertaining thereto would be in order. I am tempted to go with elimination, but supporting corporate entities does hold several useful and valid practical advantages - but that could be an issue for another day.

I would also retain for the time being the USPTO, its role and validity also to be revisited later on.

What would remain that is clearly problematic would be the powers to tax and to issue legal tender fiat. Those would be the first orders of re-assessment, once the Republic was reestablished in proper accord with strict constructionist specification.

I think many on the Left see problems with government corruption or cronyism to, but they think they can fix government to accomplish accomplish specific things while looking to working models in other countries for these projects.

They see only myopically. The same can be said of the "right", if marginally less egregiously.

Their intentions count for nothing in the wake of the rotten results they have consistently produced. This applies to one and all, left, right, pink or purple.

 

[wizardwatson]

I cannot concur. Point your eyeballs and behold what is now happening almost daily in places like Portland. Observe the blind intransigence of the people seeking the destruction of that which has enabled their ability to spew their stupidities. There is no amount of real world, factual, damning evidence that will convince them of anything that departs with the notions to which they have welded themselves. You are assuming the least modicum of individual integrity and rational capacity. That is a deep error. The number of "lefties" of sufficient intellect and honesty to be converted is, proportionally speaking, vanishingly small. Hatred drives them first and foremost, thereby blinding them to any objective truth they may encounter, said hatred coming reflexively to the fore in categorical and violent rejection of facts that stand before their very eyes.

Well, certainly the brown-shirt hate zombies are going to be out of reach. They are consummate followers pretending they are leaders.

I mean to say that actual economic action: Bringing jobs to their neighborhood, improving a local park, reducing crime, creating investment vehicles that puts outside capital into local business....

....those kinds of things transcend the political drama we waste time on, which typically is nothing but "wag the dog" scenarios because everyone's eyes are glued to their closest fancy touchscreen pandora's box of propaganda.

I'm saying if we spent more time actually looking at solutions to socio-economic problems instead of the reactionary ideologies they engender, THAT is how we build bridges.

We cannot win an ideological war with the left with our "No true Scotsman" take on our version of the right. True libertarianism, Ron Paul libertarianism, is a peaceful "middle" path, not really inside the reactionary paradigm of right/left.

So my point is, throw away the "education" related to law, rights, blah blah blah. Those things "go without saying". We have to go local and figure out how to innovate "economically" in our local communities. There are methods on the shelf. But until the BUILDERS change tactics, instead of beating their heads against the wall of an ideology that is a SYMPTOM, NOT A CAUSE of the socio-economic situation, we aren't going to organize.

This doesn't mean we have to "go local" everywhere all at once. Already we are seeing things happen with sound money in Wyoming and Arizona. Build a movement on the economic benefits of "freedom", and then you naturally encourage the freedom ideology in more intellectual spheres.

 

[osan]

Well, certainly the brown-shirt hate zombies are going to be out of reach. They are consummate followers pretending they are leaders.

And they are an enormous minority and growing.

I mean to say that actual economic action: Bringing jobs to their neighborhood, improving a local park, reducing crime, creating investment vehicles that puts outside capital into local business....

That can never hurt, but always bear in mind the hordes of such people who want nothing to do with work. They say one thing and do something very different.

....those kinds of things transcend the political drama we waste time on, which typically is nothing but "wag the dog" scenarios because everyone's eyes are glued to their closest fancy touchscreen pandora's box of propaganda.

There is certainly truth in this, but there's more to the picture.

For one thing, solutions that work are often criminalized. Consider all the people in places like NYC who have met with jail or threats thereof for feeding the poor.

When I was a teacher, I got very irritated with the circumstance of working in ghetto schools. I was watching a generation going down the tube. Every time I tried a new approach and it began to yield fruit, my asshole AP, a little douche named Harvey Kay, would order me to cease and desist. When asked why, his only response ever was "it's illegal". Needless to say, I would shed no tear to find out dear Harvey had been exercised to death in his boothole by lonely and very large men.

I snuck one past him. When he saw the 60 foot long suspension bridge my seniors designed and built sub rosa right under his hooked nose in the lobby of the school, he pitched a fit for the books. Needless to say, I was at another school the following year and it was worth it just to see him come within an epsilon of bursting an artery in his head. He was the worst sort of human. Sub-human, I would call him... but I digress.

I'm saying if we spent more time actually looking at solutions to socio-economic problems instead of the reactionary ideologies they engender, THAT is how we build bridges.

Nice idea, but a bit naive. Bear in mind false criminalization. The last thing Theye want is for any of us to mend fences and turn eyes to the common enemy. Look at how perfectly they have made manifest in the SJW/snowflake brigade. Those people are impossible to deal with. One cannot even speak with them.

I agree to keep trying and accept the little victories, but reality should always temper one's expectations a mite.

We cannot win an ideological war with the left with our "No true Scotsman" take on our version of the right. True libertarianism, Ron Paul libertarianism, is a peaceful "middle" path, not really inside the reactionary paradigm of right/left.

You cannot deal with ideologues who understand and communicate in only those terms. Those willing to be persuaded are few and far between, that population shrinking by the minute.

Lets face it, it's a lot more satisfying to vast hordes of people to bitch, whine, and wreck stuff than it is to face reality with a modicum of courage and a will to work.

So my point is, throw away the "education" related to law, rights, blah blah blah. Those things "go without saying". We have to go local and figure out how to innovate "economically" in our local communities. There are methods on the shelf. But until the BUILDERS change tactics, instead of beating their heads against the wall of an ideology that is a SYMPTOM, NOT A CAUSE of the socio-economic situation, we aren't going to organize.

Today, nothing goes without saying. We are living in strange times and leaving anything unsaid in this quagmire of dishonest chicanery is to tempt fate at the hands of bounders and scoundrels.

Not trying to be Debbie Downer, but only to remind everyone just how steep is the uphill path we tread. The world is awash in thieves.

This doesn't mean we have to "go local" everywhere all at once. Already we are seeing things happen with sound money in Wyoming and Arizona. Build a movement on the economic benefits of "freedom", and then you naturally encourage the freedom ideology in more intellectual spheres.

Keep poking at the monster. At some point it forces the hand into either violence or taking a step down from its imperious position.

 

[LibertyRevolution]

It is hopeless. The indoctrination of the sheeple has gone on too long.
This country is doomed, move to the middle of nowhere and refind your apathy.

 

[wizardwatson]

And they are an enormous minority and growing.

That can never hurt, but always bear in mind the hordes of such people who want nothing to do with work. They say one thing and do something very different.

There is certainly truth in this, but there's more to the picture.

For one thing, solutions that work are often criminalized. Consider all the people in places like NYC who have met with jail or threats thereof for feeding the poor.

When I was a teacher, I got very irritated with the circumstance of working in ghetto schools. I was watching a generation going down the tube. Every time I tried a new approach and it began to yield fruit, my asshole AP, a little douche named Harvey Kay, would order me to cease and desist. When asked why, his only response ever was "it's illegal". Needless to say, I would shed no tear to find out dear Harvey had been exercised to death in his boothole by lonely and very large men.

I snuck one past him. When he saw the 60 foot long suspension bridge my seniors designed and built sub rosa right under his hooked nose in the lobby of the school, he pitched a fit for the books. Needless to say, I was at another school the following year and it was worth it just to see him come within an epsilon of bursting an artery in his head. He was the worst sort of human. Sub-human, I would call him... but I digress.

Nice idea, but a bit naive. Bear in mind false criminalization. The last thing Theye want is for any of us to mend fences and turn eyes to the common enemy. Look at how perfectly they have made manifest in the SJW/snowflake brigade. Those people are impossible to deal with. One cannot even speak with them.

I agree to keep trying and accept the little victories, but reality should always temper one's expectations a mite.

You cannot deal with ideologues who understand and communicate in only those terms. Those willing to be persuaded are few and far between, that population shrinking by the minute.

Lets face it, it's a lot more satisfying to vast hordes of people to bitch, whine, and wreck stuff than it is to face reality with a modicum of courage and a will to work.

Today, nothing goes without saying. We are living in strange times and leaving anything unsaid in this quagmire of dishonest chicanery is to tempt fate at the hands of bounders and scoundrels.

Not trying to be Debbie Downer, but only to remind everyone just how steep is the uphill path we tread. The world is awash in thieves.

Keep poking at the monster. At some point it forces the hand into either violence or taking a step down from its imperious position.

You know...as much as I hate how much time is wasted in this medium, I do like that people's words are there for me to quote.

You call me naive (or "a bit" naive) but ultimately say what I'm saying. People don't have courage and don't want to actually do anything, but instead bitch and whine and make excuses.

So overall, how am I naive? Granted, I'm taking that quote a little out of context, but your entire theme here is that you have some unique grasp on the state of the movement. You don't. You have the same intellectual position of I would say MOST of the movement. "I'm burnt out, let me justify my lack of motivation philosophically."

The fact is, I"m trying to instill hope, show that WE are the problem not the imagined boogeymen of the "state" and the zombie left.

You are the one who started a thread called "Freedom has no hope" and telling the above guy he is "naive".

So what am I not understanding here?

 

[osan]

You call me naive

No, I called the idea naive and I referred to the example in the previous paragraph regarding false criminalization. There are interests in this nation that are working overtime to make sure we do not build bridges. Don't take what I expressed personally because I don't waste time with that sort of thing. You also appear to ignore that I also characterized it as a "nice idea", and later delivered the bottom-line message about tempering one's expectations in the face of the harsh realities Theye impose upon us.

So overall, how am I naive?

See above.

Granted, I'm taking that quote a little out of context, but your entire theme here is that you have some unique grasp on the state of the movement. You don't. You have the same intellectual position of I would say MOST of the movement. "I'm burnt out, let me justify my lack of motivation philosophically."

No idea where you get these ideas. You have grossly misperceived my positions and personality if this is how you read me. Perhaps I've not written with sufficient clarity and thoughtfulness.

The fact is, I"m trying to instill hope, show that WE are the problem not the imagined boogeymen of the "state" and the zombie left.

All well and good, so far as you go. The problem is that you did not cover the broader circumstance. I fully agree with you on this - press on regardless and try to mend fences rather than go to war. The forces working against this with very clear and deliberate intent, however, are vast. Just look at how these poor, dull-witted "millennials" have been wrapped around the great Progressive Finger. As I wrote previously, there is no talking to a vast plurality of them. If you're not on your knees, ready to service their whinging little willies, the only treatment you can expect from them is blind hatred and, if they think they can get away with it, violence.

You are the one who started a thread called "Freedom has no hope" and telling the above guy he is "naive".

No, the title is "Freedom Has No Hope..." The ellipsis is a semantically significant modifier. You seem to be implying that I am saying that freedom has no hope as an unqualified statement, which is obviously not the case. It has no hope UNLESS <condition 1>, <condition 2>, ... <condition n>

Once again, I did not label you as naive, but only the notion expressed as being so because it ignored several key elements of reality that to date appear to have been very successful in maintaining and even widening the chasms between the various ID-politics subdivisions. If only we could get those hormonally poisoned† gamma-males from antifa to calm themselves long enough to get a few choice words in edgewise. But generally we cannot because they don't want dialog and understanding: they was YOUR head on a pig-pole, America to burn to the waterline, and the death of every white individual in the land. I truly believe that the great majority of those people would be assessed as mildly-to-severely psychotic, were they to be examined by competent clinicians, so wide is the variance between their perceptions and reality.

† Estrogen levels enough for three women, testosterone barely measurable. It this what is meant by "soy boy"?

 

[wizardwatson]

No, I called the idea naive and I referred to the example in the previous paragraph regarding false criminalization. There are interests in this nation that are working overtime to make sure we do not build bridges. Don't take what I expressed personally because I don't waste time with that sort of thing. You also appear to ignore that I also characterized it as a "nice idea", and later delivered the bottom-line message about tempering one's expectations in the face of the harsh realities Theye impose upon us.



See above.



No idea where you get these ideas. You have grossly misperceived my positions and personality if this is how you read me. Perhaps I've not written with sufficient clarity and thoughtfulness.



All well and good, so far as you go. The problem is that you did not cover the broader circumstance. I fully agree with you on this - press on regardless and try to mend fences rather than go to war. The forces working against this with very clear and deliberate intent, however, are vast. Just look at how these poor, dull-witted "millennials" have been wrapped around the great Progressive Finger. As I wrote previously, there is no talking to a vast plurality of them. If you're not on your knees, ready to service their whinging little willies, the only treatment you can expect from them is blind hatred and, if they think they can get away with it, violence.



No, the title is "Freedom Has No Hope..." The ellipsis is a semantically significant modifier. You seem to be implying that I am saying that freedom has no hope as an unqualified statement, which is obviously not the case. It has no hope UNLESS <condition 1>, <condition 2>, ... <condition n>

Once again, I did not label you as naive, but only the notion expressed as being so because it ignored several key elements of reality that to date appear to have been very successful in maintaining and even widening the chasms between the various ID-politics subdivisions. If only we could get those hormonally poisoned† gamma-males from antifa to calm themselves long enough to get a few choice words in edgewise. But generally we cannot because they don't want dialog and understanding: they was YOUR head on a pig-pole, America to burn to the waterline, and the death of every white individual in the land. I truly believe that the great majority of those people would be assessed as mildly-to-severely psychotic, were they to be examined by competent clinicians, so wide is the variance between their perceptions and reality.

† Estrogen levels enough for three women, testosterone barely measurable. It this what is meant by "soy boy"?

Reset, then.

Do you have any plans or ideas how to organize? Because it seems to me that you obsess and despair about the strength and numbers of the perceived enemy.

The real enemy is our apathy and lethargy, as your click-bait titled thread is a witness to.

If we don't overcome that, we'll never know whether the enemy is even as real as we imagine because we've never had a decent plan to organize and roll call, much less go on a mission.

 

[wizardwatson]

Unless one of two things occur:

1. The "movement" becomes sufficiently organized, or
2. A "reset event" occurs.

Actually, this reminds me of a thought I had a few times over the years that I will likely incorporate into my plan this year.

We do need a reset event. If we want to jumpstart organization, the first thing we need to do when organizing is universally agree that:
1) We are going to have some small modicum of transparent identity.
2) All apathy, trolling, fighting, and otherwise useless post history and online shenanigans will be forgiven. Reset point going forward.

#2 is the real reset we need. I feel like so many people over the years feel the need to justify themselves since they have such a post history. Why? Your online history is the skid mark on the underwear of life. Throw it out and get some new underwear. Nobody cares and nobody is going to read it. If people try to drudge up your crap instead of focusing on real actions and accountability going forward we ding THEM for violating #2.

Anyway, I've always liked that idea. 2nd chance for everyone but the price is some kind of real world presence. No point in giving 2nd chances to people we aren't even sure are real.

 

[osan]

Reset, then.

Do you have any plans or ideas how to organize? Because it seems to me that you obsess and despair about the strength and numbers of the perceived enemy.

I obsess over my civil engineering project, which is the expansion of this house single-handedly from what is now about 2800 sq, ft. to just under 10K. As for the rest of the world - feh... I have better things with which to occupy my bigger concerns. As is all too common, you have read into my words that which is not there. We all do it, so no big deal - just setting you straight.

We all have our moments.

The real enemy is our apathy and lethargy, as your click-bait titled thread is a witness to.

Click-bait? And in what manner have I profited from posting this thread? Is the objective of click-bait not to profit, usually monetarily?

If nothing, I ran into the red with this. Your accusation makes no sense.

If we don't overcome that, we'll never know whether the enemy is even as real as we imagine because we've never had a decent plan to organize and roll call, much less go on a mission.

This is agreeable. Now for the observation: nothing much is happening, save for the left-phagues marching, wrecking, beating, and so on. Thus far, there is little basis for optimism. But things can change in a heartbeat, so who can say what things will be like in ten years or even one?

 

[wizardwatson]

As is all too common, you have read into my words that which is not there. We all do it, so no big deal - just setting you straight.

We all have our moments.

I've heard this rebuttal countless times on these forums.

You don't know what I meant.
You're reading into it.
You don't know me.

I choose NOT to be mysterious and abstract and beat around the bush, but rather post and question and debate towards actionable decisions and plans. That is the vector along which I post ESPECIALLY in grassroots central.

So if you're ...feh... or ...meh... with regards to helping, or having faith in others, or hopeless in general, why post at all in this forum? Why not the vent or politics and philosophy?

This is an all too common pattern:

Disaffected Activist: Movement is dead.
Motivated Activist: We can do this or even try this!
Disaffected Activist: Won't work.
Motivated Activist: You aren't trying, though, why not just commit to trying? Lead, follow or get out of the way.
Disaffected Activist: You don't know me. You misunderstand me. I see what you're saying but we disagree.

So what happens? Nothing. Because this medium requires no commitment. You aren't even a real person in any "accountable" sense. The same as 90% of this board. What will happen in ten years? IT'S BEEN TEN YEARS! My profile is 11 years old this May.

Anyway, you're right I don't know you. And maybe I "read into" what people write. It's because I'm looking for substance. I don't care about people's life stories because I'm interested in the mission, not making friends and entertaining myself and others. Sure it's fun sometimes, and it's great if we make friends, but if that takes precedence over the mission, than we are a liability to the movement, not an asset.

Nothing much is happening, that's true. But even this community existing, and still discussing liberty is more "happening" then whatever the left is up to.

Ron had ideas, great ideas, but when we lost Ron, it seems the hope he inspired went with him. How to get people to have hope and enthusiasm while looking in the mirror instead of someone else to lead the way, that's the real challenge.

The problem is our own apathy, once cured, now back with a vengeance.

 

[osan]

I've heard this rebuttal countless times on these forums.

You don't know what I meant.
You're reading into it.
You don't know me.

Meaning what, exactly?

I choose NOT to be mysterious and abstract and beat around the bush, but rather post and question and debate towards actionable decisions and plans. That is the vector along which I post ESPECIALLY in grassroots central.

Do you mean to suggest that I choose otherwise?

So if you're ...feh... or ...meh... with regards to helping, or having faith in others, or hopeless in general, why post at all in this forum? Why not the vent or politics and philosophy?

If you think I have any horse in the race of bullshittery or of trying to save face, then you are mistaken.

So what happens? Nothing. Because this medium requires no commitment. You aren't even a real person in any "accountable" sense. The same as 90% of this board. What will happen in ten years? IT'S BEEN TEN YEARS! My profile is 11 years old this May.

Tell us how you are accountable in the ways you claim the rest of us are not? I don't really even know what you mean. We discuss matters. We are human and have our moments. What's the big deal?

I agree that nothing happens. I've watched "initiatives" start and promptly fizzle here. I have noted this publicly. So?

Anyway, you're right I don't know you. And maybe I "read into" what people write.

In the case in question, you did. Generally speaking, people have atrocious communications habits, especially in text-based media. The key is to ask questions where there is any room for doubt in the specifics of what has been expressed. Most don't do it, but are content to assume malice, stupidity, or what have you.

It's because I'm looking for substance.

I don't think anyone here can point to a place where I blow my own horn - it's not my way - but here I must protest if you mean to say that my posts are insubstantial. If that is your meaning, and correct me if I misperceive, onus rests with you to define the term that we may properly understand your meaning.

I don't care about people's life stories because I'm interested in the mission, not making friends and entertaining myself and others. Sure it's fun sometimes, and it's great if we make friends, but if that takes precedence over the mission, than we are a liability to the movement, not an asset.

Then what are YOU doing here, since "nothing" happens? I'm not claiming nor implying any special purpose. I'm learning, maybe teaching a little - trying to be helpful in any event - and still enjoying intellectual exchanges even if the timbre of the site is less vibrant than it was in 2009. I've noted the same problems long ago as you have here. I'm still here because there is still a payoff for me.

Nothing much is happening, that's true. But even this community existing, and still discussing liberty is more "happening" then whatever the left is up to.

Fair enough, though the "left" gets their asses out the door whereas we typically do not. That is why they succeed in their piecemeal encroachments upon the rest.

Ron had ideas, great ideas, but when we lost Ron, it seems the hope he inspired went with him. How to get people to have hope and enthusiasm while looking in the mirror instead of someone else to lead the way, that's the real challenge.

This is pure laziness combined with conditioning. People generally want someone to show them the way because it is easier. That way, they don't have to think for themselves. That is perhaps the greatest threat to the currently slim prospects for human freedom.

The problem is our own apathy, once cured, now back with a vengeance.

It was never cured. Had it been, it would not have come back. Freedom is tiring because it is difficult, unlike pretty slavery which demands so very little of the individual beyond blind obedience. A momentary spike of enthusiasm does not evidence "cure". The phenomenon underlying the strong support of Ron Paul is very much a close analog to that which underpinned the wide support of Adolph Hitler. People don't want to do the dirty work, but rather they want to leave it to someone else - a "hero". Hence, their slavery becomes unavoidable.

 

[wizardwatson]

Generally speaking, people have atrocious communications habits, especially in text-based media.

Wow, 10 slices. I surrender.

 

[osan]

Wow, 10 slices. I surrender.

I have no idea what that is even supposed to mean.

It seems as if you are treating this exchange as some sort of competition. Why? I thought most of us were here to have constructive discussions.

As usual, it would appear my tiny, shriveled brain has failed me once more.