Free State Project of Kentucky?

[MichaelDavis]

How many of them are signed up for the FSP?

Probably none. It's a bad idea because there would be no grassroots support for people like Amash in Michigan or Massie in Kentucky, since all libertarians would be stuck in New Hampshire. Ron Paul said "You want to spread out and be as pervasive as possible .... I don’t see this as a solution" when speaking about creating libertarian communities. Not only do I love Missouri, but I feel an obligation to support freedom for Missourians instead of abandoning them.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Probably none. It's a bad idea because there would be no grassroots support for people like Amash in Michigan or Massie in Kentucky, since all libertarians would be stuck in New Hampshire. Ron Paul said "You want to spread out and be as pervasive as possible .... I don’t see this as a solution" when speaking about creating libertarian communities. Not only do I love Missouri, but I feel an obligation to support freedom for Missourians instead of abandoning them.

The goal of the FSP isn't to get all liberty activists in the entire world to move to 1 low populated, easy to reform state that already leans more pro-liberty than the average states and work to create liberty in our lifetime. The goal is to get 20,000 liberty activists. 1,000+ already moved yo NH as early movers so now the FSP is just looking to get 19,000 additional activists to move.

I'm sure that you agree with Ron Paul on this issue as he thinks it is a great idea. He clearly endorsed the FSP which you may call a libertarian community if you want. I see it as maybe creating a liberty leaning world by starting at trying to create a liberty leaning state, spread it nationwide and then worldwide. You have to start somewhere, though. The top liberty activists in the world got together and voted on NH as the state to start in. I posted a link to quotes and even a video. You saw that yet continue to confuse the issue on purpose.

As for abandoning the people of MO. I beleive that if you moved to NH as part of the FSP, you would be doing the exact opposite of abandoning them. Right now, we are generally losing freedom in almost every or every part of the world. This is a new strategy. By proving liberty works in 1 state, we can make the arguments using real world examples in all states. By concentrating some of the best and brightest liberty activists in 1 low populated state, synergies can happen. New liberty ideas and tech can be created, This tech can then be copied and used in other parts of the nation and world. For example. Look at Porcupine 411. Porcupine 411 is a set of rapid message distribution networks. It started as just 1 system, created by a free stater in NH. Now it has spread to other states, increasing freedom there. But without the FSP, it might have never been created. That is just 1 of potentially limitless possibilities.

 

[fr33]

I agree it's a good idea and respect people for trying. I just think some of the promotional rhetoric is incorrect and misleading.

 

[69360]

http://freedominthe50states.org/

Maine is #3 in personal freedom, which is the most important to me.

Arguably, Ron Paul's best state in 2012 was NH.

Nope it was Maine with 36% of the vote.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Nope it was Maine with 36% of the vote.

I said "Arguably, Ron Paul's best state in 2012 was NH." I agree with you that someone could also argue ME or IA or perhaps even another state was Ron Paul's best state. I'm definitely not of that opinion, though

Percentage of total state population voting for Ron Paul compared http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...state-population-voting-for-Ron-Paul-compared

Percentage of total state population voting for Ron Paul in the Republican Primary or Republican Caucus, ranked highest to lowest (and the 2008 percentage):
1. New Hampshire 4.3% (1.4%)
2. Vermont 2.4% (0.4%)
3. Montana 2% (1.7%)
4. South Carolina 1.7% (0.4%)
5. Wisconsin 1.5% (0.3%)
6. Indiana 1.5% (0.5%)
7. Virginia 1.3% (0.3%)
8. Michigan 1.2% (0.6%)
9. North Carolina 1.1% (0.4%)
...46. Maine 0.2% (0.08%)

With 59,000+ votes in NH, 59,000+, Ron Paul received 17% more votes than Obama.

Ron Paul votes by state.
New Hampshire 59,000+ of those, 2,273 were in the NH Democratic Primary
Maine 2,258ish

The victory in NH was wide and deep http://www.ronpaulforums.com/entry....ctory-in-New-Hampshire-was-Both-Wide-and-Deep

While Paul was second overall, he won Coos County with over 30% of the vote. Paul was second in the nine other New Hampshire counties and only lost to Romney by 5 points in Cheshire, Grafton and Sullivan counties.

Paul won around sixty New Hampshire towns including the Keene area towns of Marlow, Sullivan, and Troy and the Concord area towns of Boscawen, Chichester, Epsom, Northfield, Salisbury, and Webster. Paul won the Taxachusetts border towns of Winchester, New Ipswich and Richmond, the only New Hampshire town Paul won in 2008. In 2012, Paul won Richmond with close to 50% of the vote. Paul won city wards all over the state from Franklin Ward 2 to Laconia Ward 5 in the Lakes Region, to Dover Ward 1 and Somersworth Ward 2 on the Maine border. Paul also won wards in Manchester, Nashua and Concord, New Hampshire’s three largest cities. Paul won Berlin, the northernmost city in New Hampshire and Claremont, a city on the Vermont border.

Ron Paul not only took second in the 2012 New Hampshire Republican Primary, but he also took second in the 2012 New Hampshire Democratic Primary. Ron Paul not only did well in the Democratic Primary, but he received more votes in the Republican Primary than Barack Obama received in the Democratic Primary.

According to a CNN Exit poll, Paul almost won 50% of the 18 to 29 year old vote in New Hampshire. Paul also won the 30 to 39 year old vote with 35% to Mitt Romney’s 34%. Paul did best with voters making under $30,000 per year, first time Republican Primary voters, undeclared voters, socially liberal voters, voters that wanted a true conservative, voters that wanted strong moral character and non-religious voters.

Ron Paul's success in the NH Primary gave him a 70% boost in the South Carolina polls http://www.ronpaulforums.com/entry.php?530-Paul’s-New-Hampshire-Bump

Second out of thirty candidates is pretty impressive considering that some of the candidates lived in New Hampshire and most of them were only competing in New Hampshire. While it is true that Paul only came in second in New Hampshire, Paul was the only candidate to get a bump in the South Carolina polls from the New Hampshire election results.

In polls by three different polling companies, Ron Paul had a significant bump in South Carolina. According to the South Carolina PPP poll before the New Hampshire Primary, Ron Paul polled at 9%. In the PPP poll right after the New Hampshire Primary, Ron Paul polled at 15%. The pre-New Hampshire Primary Rasmussen Reports poll had Ron Paul at 11%. The post-New Hampshire Primary Rasmussen Reports poll had Ron Paul at 16%. The American Research Group polls before and after the New Hampshire Primary showed a jump from 9% to 20% for Ron Paul in South Carolina.

While New Hampshire gave a bump to Ron Paul, no other candidate received a bump from the New Hampshire Primary. Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich did not change more than a point or two in either direction according to South Carolina polls by American Research Group, Rasmussen Reports and PPP.

Rick Santorum received a negative bump from the New Hampshire Primary. Rick Santorum was tied with Gingrich for second in South Carolina before the New Hampshire Primary. After the New Hampshire Primary, Santorum dropped 17 points from 24% to 7% according to American Research Group. According to Rasmussen Reports, Santorum dropped 8 points in South Carolina.

41% of Legislators the that Endorsed Ron Paul were New Hampshire Legislators https://nhfreedom.wordpress.com/201...dorse-ron-paul-are-new-hampshire-legislators/

Legislators in 20 states endorsed Ron Paul. 41% of the US and state legislators who endorsed Ron Paul are New Hampshire legislators. The highest ranking legislator to endorse Ron Paul was Senator Rand Paul. Out of the 5 early states of IA, NH, SC, FL and NV, 80% of the endorsements came from NH legislators.

ME list:
State Representative Larry Dunphy
State Representative Jeffery Gifford
State Representative Ryan Harmon
State Representative Lance Harvell
State Representative David Johnson
State Representative Aaron Libby
State Representative Michael McClellan
State Representative Beth O'Connor
State Representative Heather Sirocki
State Representative Paul Waterhouse
State Representative Michael Willette

NH list:
State Senator Jim Forsythe
State Senator Andy Sanborn
State Senator Ray White
State Representative Anne Cartwright
State Representative Jenn Coffey
State Representative Seth Cohn
State Representative Tim Comerford
State Representative Guy Comtois
State Representative Cameron DeJong
State Representative Phil Greazzo
State Representative J.R. Hoell
State Representative Paul Ingbretson
State Representative Kyle Jones
State Representative Laura Jones
State Representative Robert Kingsbury
State Representative George Lambert
State Representative Fred Leonard
State Representative Robert Malone
State Representative Jonathan Maltz
State Representative Andrew Manuse
State Representative Donna Mauro
State Representative Paul Mirski
State Representative Keith Murphy
State Representative Laurence Rappaport
State Representative Kevin Reichard
State Representative Lisa Scontsas
State Representative Tammy Simmons
State Representative Kathleen Souza
State Representative Norman Tregenza
State Representative Steve Vaillancourt
State Representative Carol Vita
State Representative Lucien Vita
State Representative Mark Warden

 

[MichaelDavis]

I said "Arguably, Ron Paul's best state in 2012 was NH." I agree with you that someone could also argue ME or IA or perhaps even another state was Ron Paul's best state. I'm definitely not of that opinion, though

Percentage of total state population voting for Ron Paul compared http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...state-population-voting-for-Ron-Paul-compared

With 59,000+ votes in NH, 59,000+, Ron Paul received 17% more votes than Obama.

Ron Paul votes by state.
New Hampshire 59,000+ of those, 2,273 were in the NH Democratic Primary
Maine 2,258ish

The victory in NH was wide and deep http://www.ronpaulforums.com/entry....ctory-in-New-Hampshire-was-Both-Wide-and-Deep


Ron Paul's success in the NH Primary gave him a 70% boost in the South Carolina polls http://www.ronpaulforums.com/entry.php?530-Paul’s-New-Hampshire-Bump


41% of Legislators the that Endorsed Ron Paul were New Hampshire Legislators https://nhfreedom.wordpress.com/201...dorse-ron-paul-are-new-hampshire-legislators/


ME list:
State Representative Larry Dunphy
State Representative Jeffery Gifford
State Representative Ryan Harmon
State Representative Lance Harvell
State Representative David Johnson
State Representative Aaron Libby
State Representative Michael McClellan
State Representative Beth O'Connor
State Representative Heather Sirocki
State Representative Paul Waterhouse
State Representative Michael Willette

NH list:
State Senator Jim Forsythe
State Senator Andy Sanborn
State Senator Ray White
State Representative Anne Cartwright
State Representative Jenn Coffey
State Representative Seth Cohn
State Representative Tim Comerford
State Representative Guy Comtois
State Representative Cameron DeJong
State Representative Phil Greazzo
State Representative J.R. Hoell
State Representative Paul Ingbretson
State Representative Kyle Jones
State Representative Laura Jones
State Representative Robert Kingsbury
State Representative George Lambert
State Representative Fred Leonard
State Representative Robert Malone
State Representative Jonathan Maltz
State Representative Andrew Manuse
State Representative Donna Mauro
State Representative Paul Mirski
State Representative Keith Murphy
State Representative Laurence Rappaport
State Representative Kevin Reichard
State Representative Lisa Scontsas
State Representative Tammy Simmons
State Representative Kathleen Souza
State Representative Norman Tregenza
State Representative Steve Vaillancourt
State Representative Carol Vita
State Representative Lucien Vita
State Representative Mark Warden

You're purposefully attempting to be misleading. Ron Paul received a larger percentage of the vote in Maine than New Hampshire in both 2008 and 2012 Republican primaries. Also, the New Hampshire legislature is MUCH larger than Maine's (226%). If your endorsement numbers are correct, a similar percentage of the Maine Legislature endorsed Ron Paul as the New Hampshire legislature, even though many legislators from New Hampshire are affiliated with the Free State Project. If the Free State Project was so influential, NEw Hampshire would not have it's current crop of elected officials.

 

[TaftFan]

Here is the article, got it from another site:

The libertarian Free State Project bills itself as "an effort to recruit 20,000 liberty-loving people to move to New Hampshire." A state representative there recently declared they're not welcome. So a plan B might be in order: Kentucky, perhaps.

Objections immediately spring to mind. How can a state known for its love of tobacco-price supports, with half a million more registered Democrats than Republicans, possibly fit the bill? Then again, what state boasts a more impressive small-government tag team than Republican lawmakers Sen. Rand Paul and Rep. Thomas Massie?

Paul, elected to the U.S. Senate in 2010, has already garnered his share of national headlines. But Massie, who last year won the remainder of retired GOP Rep. Geoff Davis' unexpired House term and a full two years in his own right, has flown under the radar.

Massie uses just two words to sum up his mission: "cut spending." Taking office as the fiscal cliff loomed, he like most Republicans wanted to preserve as many of the expiring tax cuts as possible. But unlike the majority of his party, he wants to change the GOP's focus.

"Spending is a tax," Massie says, arguing that reducing federal expenditures is the real necessity. Taxing, borrowing, and inflating follow on the heels of high spending. Yet despite Republican campaign promises, the 2011 debt-ceiling deal, and the super committee, Massie hasn't seen much trimming going on.

Cutting government is what got Massie into politics in the first place. When his home county proposed a tax to fund a building that was in turn supposed to reel in federal money--perhaps in accordance with the maxim, "If you build it, they will come"--Massie was steamed.

First he wrote a letter to the editor of a local newspaper. Dissatisfied with how the county was being run, he decided to make a bid for office himself. This was the first time he found himself in partnership with Rand Paul, who at the time was trying to beat the Republican establishment for a senatorial nomination; Massie wanted to become judge-executive of Lewis County, a post comparable to mayor.

It was the first match the Tea Party tag team won. In office, Massie dedicated himself to finding waste in public spending. He famously stopped paying a railroad company rent for a drainage ditch on property the railroad hadn't actually owned for 20 years. Lewis County had been sending them checks the entire time.

Massie checked all the electric meters on the county dime. When the hot water heater broke at the county jail, he ordered a replacement on eBay--complete with free shipping and a warranty--and installed it himself. "Gimme three inmates, I'll put it in," he told Roll Call he recalled saying.

The federal budget, bleeding trillions in red ink, can't be cut meaningfully with an exclusive focus on the old chestnuts of waste, fraud, and abuse. But Massie is willing to take on tougher targets--and even Republican-friendly constituencies. He signed a bipartisan letter asking congressional leaders of both parties to consider Pentagon budget cuts.

"We know the United States can maintain the best fighting force in the world while also pursuing sensible defense savings," the letter read. "How we spend our resources is just as important as how much we spend." The signatories dismissed the idea of measuring military power based on past spending or the Pentagon's slice of GDP.

"Ten other Republicans signed it," Massie notes, "so we know at least that many are serious." Some of them--Michigan Rep. Justin Amash, California Rep. Tom McClintock, and Idaho Rep. Raul Labrador--have already emerged as frequent allies.

He'll need them. Massie was already on the losing end of some lopsided bipartisan votes before the 113th Congress commenced. The first was the National Defense Authorization Act, which passed the House of Representatives with no specific language protecting American citizens from indefinite detention. (Amendments along these lines did pass the Senate, but were omitted from the conference report.)

The NDAA sailed through the House on a final vote of 315 to 107, attracting majority support from Republicans and Democrats alike. Yet 30 Republicans voted no. Massie was one of them. "I couldn't in good conscience vote for the NDAA while simultaneously upholding my oath to defend the Constitution," he said in a statement.

"The NDAA violates fundamental rights recognized since the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215 AD," Massie argued. "This bill ignores principles central to American liberty." A pro-lifer, he noted that the version for the 2013 fiscal year also loosened restrictions on federal funding of abortions for military personnel.

Interestingly, all four Republicans who were denied their preferred committee assignments by the House GOP leadership for being too fiscally conservative--Amash, Kansas Rep. Tim Huelskamp, North Carolina Rep. Walter Jones, and Arizona Rep. David Schweikert--also voted against the NDAA. "The purges totally backfired," says Massie.

At the time, Massie fired back on Twitter, asking why these conservatives were removed from committees: "This isn't the time for conservatives to be ditching their principles." He signed of politely asking his constituents, "What do you think?"

Massie also joined Amash, Jones, Ron Paul, and Tennessee Rep. John Duncan--who with Paul's retirement is now the last of the six original House Republicans who voted against the Iraq War left in Congress--in voting against a resolution that purported to be about deterring unspecified Iranian actions in the Western hemisphere. The saber-rattling for the next Iraq War starts small.

And when more than two dozen Republicans, with varying degrees of seriousness, plotted a coup against House Speaker John Boehner in January, Massie was one of only eight to follow through and cast a vote for a different candidate. Massie voted for Amash for speaker.

It is appropriate then that Massie is aligning himself with a congressional "liberty caucus," even if he doesn't officially join the group by that name under Amash's chairmanship.

So is the Bluegrass State perhaps a more hospitable environment for libertarian-leaning conservatism than one might initially suppose? After all, Massie's main GOP primary opponent, Alecia Webb-Edgington, tried and failed to use libertarian-baiting to her advantage in 2012. She told a local Lincoln Day dinner, "We don't need any more socialists, communists, or libertarians in the Republican Party." As they say on a popular government-funded children's television program, one of those things is not like the others. Webb-Edgington lost to Massie by 15 percentage points, taking just 30 percent of the overall vote.

"Northern Kentucky, especially in the Republican primary, is a pretty good place for liberty issues," local Tea Party activist David Adams told me this summer. Adams managed Rand Paul's 2010 Senate campaign during the primary, before it was taken over by Jesse Benton, a veteran of Ron Paul's 2008 presidential bid who went on to become campaign manager of Ron Paul's 2012 effort.

In 2014, Benton will manage the reelection campaign of Kentucky's senior senator, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell. His hiring suggests that even McConnell--who has forged closer ties to the younger Paul since opposing him in the Senate primary two years ago--appreciates the significance of the Tea Party's libertarian wing.

As Massie's approach illustrates, libertarians are just one part of the big tent for smaller government. He told a local Kentucky television station that "fiscal responsibility and constitutionally limited government" are both "libertarian principles" and "Republican principles." He has also said of his base, "Good campaigns and good government are about building coalitions. This is a coalition of the Tea Party, the liberty movement, and grassroots Ronald Reagan Republicans."

Illustrating that point, The American Spectators, Jeffrey Lord--no fan of Ron Paul Republicans--praised Massie for being one the Republicans who helped defeat the GOP leadership on a key vote that would have conceded higher tax rates. Lord called Massie and a group of congressmen including Paul "Reagan's House heroes."

The vote in question was Boehner's Plan B compromise to avert the fiscal cliff. Massie also voted against the successful deal that followed, which was substantially negotiated between McConnell and Vice President Joe Biden. "This plan is Washington kicking the can down the road," Massie said in a statement. "Democrats and Republicans in Congress are once again committing doublespeak by labeling tax increases as tax cuts, and spending increases as spending cuts. I am confident that the American people will see through this."

While Massie didn't pan his state's senior senator by name--referring politely to "Senate leadership"--he nevertheless excoriated the McConnell-Biden deal for perpetuating "Obama's failed stimulus" and a "bloated tax code," as well as failing to reform entitlements while postponing "the modest spending cuts agreed to in the 2011 debt ceiling deal."

Unlike many past conservative heroes in the House, Massie could wind up as more than a backbencher. A banjo-playing Kentuckian, the 41-year-old is also an MIT-trained engineer, a successful entrepreneur, and a Tea Party insurgent with actual governing experience. Roll Call delicately says, "his biography doesn't fit into any neat boxes."

[ILLUSTRATION OMITTED]

Massie seems aware that the GOP doesn't have much to show for its past two years in the majority, mainly because Barack Obama is in the White House and the Democrats still control the Senate. Neither Obama nor Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has much interest in cutting government spending--but that doesn't mean Republicans shouldn't continue to make the argument that cuts are necessary. The alternative, as Massie sees it, is a fate akin to Greece's.

Kentucky won't soon replace New Hampshire as the destination of the Free State Project. But judging from recent evidence, Kentuckians are doing the better job electing liberty-loving lawmakers. And they now have one in each house.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Thanks for posting the article. As for the KY Free State Project. Some people in a liberty group in KY got very confused and changed their name to that. It isn't really a move here copy-cat project. It's just that the people that did that were very confused, heard of the Free State Project and liked the name. Some people tried to explain to them how they were causing brand confusion. They may have changed their name back to what it was. I'm not sure. I stopped following the issue when I found out who did it in KY.

As for this article, it uses very interesting words. "Kentucky won't soon replace New Hampshire as the destination of the Free State Project. But judging from recent evidence, Kentuckians are doing the better job electing liberty-loving lawmakers." My understanding is that NH is a lot freer than KY and both states have split legislatures right now. Of the elected leaders, the state out liberty 1s are in NH, not KY.

Obviously, on the other hand, the KY federal delegation is substantially better than the NH delegation. IMO, Rand is by far the least best US Senator Oh, and Massie is awesome! He actually used to live in MA (school related). But he decided to retire to KY. Well, I guess he didn't retire after all Good thing for that.

 

[MichaelDavis]

Thanks for posting the article. As for the KY Free State Project. Some people in a liberty group in KY got very confused and changed their name to that. It isn't really a move here copy-cat project. It's just that the people that did that were very confused, heard of the Free State Project and liked the name. Some people tried to explain to them how they were causing brand confusion. They may have changed their name back to what it was. I'm not sure. I stopped following the issue when I found out who did it in KY.

As for this article, it uses very interesting words. "Kentucky won't soon replace New Hampshire as the destination of the Free State Project. But judging from recent evidence, Kentuckians are doing the better job electing liberty-loving lawmakers." My understanding is that NH is a lot freer than KY and both states have split legislatures right now. Of the elected leaders, the state out liberty 1s are in NH, not KY.

Obviously, on the other hand, the KY federal delegation is substantially better than the NH delegation. IMO, Rand is by far the least best US Senator Oh, and Massie is awesome! He actually used to live in MA (school related). But he decided to retire to KY. Well, I guess he didn't retire after all Good thing for that.

Thomas Massie grew up in Vanceburg, Kentucky. He currently represents the area in the United States Congress. My point is this: if Thomas Massie had moved to New Hampshire instead of back to Kentucky, there would have never been a Congressman Massie. We need to support freedom-lovers across the country instead of encouraging them to cram into one state.