Free State: For those still trying to figure out "which state"

[DSouthChi]

For Puerto Rico, I just don't think anyone would move there. The cultural change would be so steep I couldn't imagine fitting in or being able to have an influence. Unless there are a large amount of Puerto Rican/Hispanic free-staters out there, Puerto Ricans probably wouldn't listen to us or care about us. It's too far away. Plus, it has 4 million people.

 

[Alex Libman]

One word: Massholes. The only thing that has kept most of NH from becoming suburbs of Boston is high oil prices. In a few decades, with better rail and electric cars, NH will go the way of NJ. I used to be a huge supporter of the FSP, but lost hope in it gradually over the past couple of years. It mostly attracts spoiled pothead kids, not true capitalists.

Three words: Free Island Project. Only a sovereign nation can ever truly be free, and there are existing island nations that have a lot fewer non-libertarians than NH's 1,000,000+, and their non-libertarians are a lot easier to bribe. This is an idea whose time hasn't come yet (and, looking even further, there'll be Free Space Station Project ideas as well). The best thing you can do for your own liberty for now is work hard, obey the powers that be, save as much money as you can, and build your wealth for the future.

On a long-enough time-line, the rich will always be able to buy their freedom, in this country or elsewhere. The lazy pothead hippies won't, no matter what state they're in.

 

[Kalifornia]

I picked. I dont need a place with a small population. I need a place with no state income tax, (being in driving distance of a place with no sales tax would be a plus as well) an awesome climate, plenty of job opportunities, a committment to the various civil liberties (incl the 2d amendment), and at least the possiblity of being able to buy some land some day.

Washington is a great place to start for the NW. They consistently deter from supreme court rulings on how far LEOs can go. They are a shall issue state. RP racked up 25% in the caucus, and 8% in the primary (in some counties near spokane, RP racked up close to 40%). Seattle in the west offers awesome economic opportunity, Spokane, imho, will be the focal point of the RP revolution, since it is the biggest city for E. WA, N. Id and W. MT (the band with by far more RP support, as a percentage of the population than anywhere in the country.

With the exception of the Seattle commie-libs (who are put in balance by a huge military presence near Seattle), there is hard to find anything wrong with the state. And honestly, while I would like to see a greater respect for property rights, I think WA has found an ideal solution in keeping the peace between the Seattle hippies and the rest of the state. They break many of their environmental regulations down by COUNTY. So if you live in a high population density area, you gotta put up with the hippy regulations, but ifyou live in Yakima or Walla Walla, you dont. Hell, if California had such innovative approaches, I would have probably stayed here (I love the central coast with a passion), but alas, they have not.

And of course, if the commie-libs ever take over there, I can just cross the border to ID, MT, or WY without too much fuss, or god forbid... NH.

 

[revolutionman]

For Puerto Rico, I just don't think anyone would move there. The cultural change would be so steep I couldn't imagine fitting in or being able to have an influence. Unless there are a large amount of Puerto Rican/Hispanic free-staters out there, Puerto Ricans probably wouldn't listen to us or care about us. It's too far away. Plus, it has 4 million people.

Those are some good points. As far as moving to Puerto Rico, there is culture shock to contend with. I'll give you that, but in exchange for dealing with culture shock, you dont have to pay a penny in federal income tax.

The worst part about living in PR is that you dont get to vote for president of the US.

Again, half the population harbors resentment toward the US government, they don't want statehood because they detest the nanny state. They want it to remain a territory with Commonwealth Stauts. Others want complete independance for Puerto Rico.

if you move to a tourist heavy town, like Rincon, its small and its out of the way and filled with Puerto Ricans who have lived in the US and speak English. restuarants, bars, beaches, good surfing, all stylized for American tourists. the municipal government would love an influx of American citizens into their town. they would probably welcome us into the political arena, because a lot of them want to Americanize the islands legal and political system, those are the people who are pro statehood.

Our stance on the issues appeals to both major political parties, and the people who just want the government to leave them alone.

Already, personal responsibility is plentiful, at many public events and social gatherings there is no regard for law and order. Drinking alcohol in state and municipal beaches and parks, people swim in the water only feet away from dangerous boat propellers, and no one gives a hoot. if you get mangled by a boat, you die and the owner goes to prison. The local additude is, oh well you both should have been paying attention.

All we would have to do is convert some local college kids, that already have angst for government local and federal to our cause, and the locals would not be able to distinguish us from themselves.

realistically, no one will probably move anywhere just for this cause. people say this and that, but they are inbedded in their lives with family and friends and are not gonna just uproot themselves in order to elect yet another official that will be blacked out and ridiculed by congress and the media.

At least in Puerto Rico there is always the option of Independance.

 

[brianewart]

Meh. The more I see people on RPF posting on and on and on about how "New Hampshire is the only Free State Project" the more I am inclined to reject NH as an option. Call it kneejerk, call it reactionary, or just call it annoyed. :shrug: But FWIW, I tend to get the impression that the FS NH people are trying to co-opt RPF for the agenda of propagandizing against (IMO better alternatives like) Wyoming, and for every such post, the chances of me moving to NH drop lower, and lower, and lower every time. Before RP08 I was probably 60/40 WY/NH and now the chances of me moving to NH are about nil.

Take it for what it's worth, but that's my honest feelings on the matter.

Don't forget Montana... that's my favorite free-state.

 

[DSouthChi]

Washington is a great place to start for the NW. They consistently deter from supreme court rulings on how far LEOs can go. They are a shall issue state. RP racked up 25% in the caucus, and 8% in the primary (in some counties near spokane, RP racked up close to 40%). Seattle in the west offers awesome economic opportunity, Spokane, imho, will be the focal point of the RP revolution, since it is the biggest city for E. WA, N. Id and W. MT (the band with by far more RP support, as a percentage of the population than anywhere in the country.

Kalifornia - I think it's interesting that you pick Spokane as the inevitable focal point. I'm from Chicago, and really know nothing about the northwest states, but came up with north-Idaho and the Spokane suburbs as the best place just from looking at population and donor maps (check this site out - http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/ and you can get all of the raw data straight from the FEC). I think that concentrating on a small town and then commuting to Spokane would help create a liberty community which would be encouraging for everyone. It would be nice if we had a place other than the internet. Also, I think if we focused on Idaho there would be the chance we could affect the state politics in the long term. But this is obviously much more daunting and requires a group effort - I think a successful movement will have to be spearheaded by a few rich people who bring jobs, infrastructure, etc.

In the short term just moving to WA does sound like a good choice. Good luck with the move.

 

[Roxi]

Yeah, I investigated all that. I still think that there are two diffferent belts that are better.

For cost of living, farming, and water, the belt from Rolla, MO through Springfield, Tulsa, OKC, Dallas and Austin is best.

For population density and climate, the Area From the coast btw Seattle to portland, out to the Stretch Between SLC and Billings is best (that includes WA, OR, ID, MT, WY)

I decided on the NW, I land in Seattle in August, and will start working on getting rural (or at least buy some land to vacation upon) as soon as it is economically feasible.

There were alot of assumptions in the FSP calculations that I simply dont agree with

in the words of ole george: "not gonna happen"... i live and was raised here... this is the bible belt son.... even though we did well in the caucuses, the general public in this area believes EXACTLY the way huckabee does..

I have also been to NH and met a LOT of free staters... NH would have been my last choice of places to live before i went there.... the FSPers there are so so so awesome, the state is beautiful, and we had many many encounters with cops there.... most of them were awesome and liberty minded

that being said i would personally prefer somewhere like oregon, wyoming, montana, arizona (N), washington state.....

 

[LibertiORDeth]

Jesus! Who put that thread together? That's insane...

+1 Without disrespect meant to FSP, there are to many flaws in the idea and location. How about Liberty Island?
www.islandofliberty.com
In the first two months, we had over 50 members, just on my advertising of the forum on here. Imagine how far we could go if other people actually recruited others...

 

[Kalifornia]

in the words of ole george: "not gonna happen"... i live and was raised here... this is the bible belt son.... even though we did well in the caucuses, the general public in this area believes EXACTLY the way huckabee does..

I have also been to NH and met a LOT of free staters... NH would have been my last choice of places to live before i went there.... the FSPers there are so so so awesome, the state is beautiful, and we had many many encounters with cops there.... most of them were awesome and liberty minded

that being said i would personally prefer somewhere like oregon, wyoming, montana, arizona (N), washington state.....

I know. I lived in Springfield, MO for 3 years. I keep telling myself that the fundies have the right instincts, but are just really badly misinformed. Honestly, the fundie issue (and climate) made me settle on the NW despite its relative economic disadvantages. The NW has a great libertarian streak, and since no single religion predominates, it cant be manipulated by the blue blooders.

 

[Kalifornia]

+1 Without disrespect meant to FSP, there are to many flaws in the idea and location. How about Liberty Island?
www.islandofliberty.com
In the first two months, we had over 50 members, just on my advertising of the forum on here. Imagine how far we could go if other people actually recruited others...

get a billionaire on board and Ill consider it. Till then, my family needs to eat.

 

[Libertarian Ideals]

There is a town in New Hampshire called Grafton.

Grafton has one police officer (who is very nice and he won't bring charges against you if you don't own a drivers license, and will talk to you like a good friend would), they also have a voluntary fire department which is run by John Babiarz, a former president of the NH Libertarian Party and a two time LP gubernatorial candidate (who actually was included in the debates!)

Grafton is home of the Free Town Project
http://freetownproject.com/Finding_the_Free_Town.html



I doubt many who have lived in Massachusetts and who have visited or moved to New Hampshire would want New Hampshire to become like Massachusetts. Many "massholes" who actually move to New Hampshire support/ vote for liberty not for more statist policies. They are usually trying to escape Massachusetts' government. The "massholes" who support statist government don't see a reason to move, and merely go to New Hampshire for tax-free goods and for skiing, fishing & camping vacations.

-
If you haven't visited New Hampshire yet, don't be so quick to down play it. I went to PorcFest this year and I wish I never had to leave NH.

Also, wether New Hampshire is your first choice state or not, having 8,400 + committed freedom activists who are planning on moving to New Hampshire is an amazing feat and you shouldn't let this opportunity pass you by to achieve liberty in your lifetime.

Sure, I like the idea of Free State Wyoming, but getting 8,400 + people to commit to do the same would take years.


The Free State Project has worked hard and I hope you take the time to realize this and take hold of this rare opportunity.

 

[american.swan]

I believe the beliefs of Ron Paul are truly American and as such put forth in a proper manner will have success where ever you are.

Also, moving to an area and immediately trying to stop the drug war and legalize prostitution is like trying to run a race with no legs and no arms. Think people.

I live in South Korea and it is by far the most collectivist place you could ever imagine. But I am working here to educate as many South Koreans as I can before I move back to the US.

Be active where you are. And if you have to tie yourself to anyone say your a "Taft" republican. So many are again shooting themselves in the foot mouthing off about Ron Paul this or Ron Paul that. It's the message not the person.

Anyways, good luck.

 

[Libertarian Ideals]

I will try to keep this respone short. I don't particulary enjoy debating. Also, most internet forum debates seems to stem either from mutual confusion or fighting over what personal preferance is "better" - both a waste of energy, especially among individualist liberty lovers who will never widely agree on the means on how to attain freedom.

I believe the beliefs of Ron Paul are truly American and as such put forth in a proper manner will have success where ever you are.

Have you heard of the squaring effect cooperation can have? (2 people working together equal 4 people seperately, with the same energy committed among both groups, and it goes on: 4 together equal 16 apart, etc)
That's the main idea behind the Free State Project, with the added purpose of influencing local & state govenment, which Jason argues most power goes to in advanced democracies. (First two paragraphs.)

Also, moving to an area and immediately trying to stop the drug war and legalize prostitution is like trying to run a race with no legs and no arms. Think people.

Are you referring to Larry Pendarvis? I had the honor to visit NH recently and talk to Free Staters living in Grafton. I was told that Larry has not moved and that his website freetownproject is unused and outdated. I was then told about their accomplishments, and failures, and how they go about doing things. Believe me, they aren't delusioned into believing they will get government off their backs overnight. (Most have been their for a minumum of 6 months, too.)

Anyways, good luck.

Thanks, I could always use some of that.

More info on the FSP can be found here.

 

[DSouthChi]

Knowing that Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party stirs the imagination on what a free state project could do there.

 

[porcupine]

Knowing that Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party stirs the imagination on what a free state project could do there.

Around the time of the Free State Wyoming break-off, there was a small group that broke off from the Free State Project and started a group called "North to the Future" focused on Alaska. I believe they never got any movers, and have long since disappeared.

Alaska is a good state, but it has the same problem as Montana (size). Also, considering that many of the more fair-weather friends won't move to NH because of cold weather, Alaska has that too.

I still think Alaska would have been an excellent choice for the FSP, but I wonder if it would have been as successful, mainly because of it being so far away from the mainland (being close to family is a common concern for movers).

 

[toowm]

RidleyReports has a new video on the 5 year anniversary of the FSP vote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paE3XtR0_XE

 

[Leroy_Jenkems]

Meh. The more I see people on RPF posting on and on and on about how "New Hampshire is the only Free State Project" the more I am inclined to reject NH as an option. Call it kneejerk, call it reactionary, or just call it annoyed. :shrug: But FWIW, I tend to get the impression that the FS NH people are trying to co-opt RPF for the agenda of propagandizing against (IMO better alternatives like) Wyoming, and for every such post, the chances of me moving to NH drop lower, and lower, and lower every time. Before RP08 I was probably 60/40 WY/NH and now the chances of me moving to NH are about nil.

Take it for what it's worth, but that's my honest feelings on the matter.

I agree with you and Rifleman (and others) 100% on taking the Free State frontier to the northwest - Wyoming, Montana, and/or Idaho are much more suitable in terms of geography, population density, and regional culture. Not to take anything away from those folks who have made the move to NH, I respect all of you 100%, just different strokes for different folks. I've got my eyes set on the NW.

We've got to diversify our Free State portfolio...