Free Market and Oil Leak

[LibForestPaul]

However, I hold the opinion that laissez-faire free-market capitalism is the best system ever developed for the distribution of goods and services, and it should be allowed.
Perfection and utopia IMO only happen in theory, so while the free market could bring us closer to social responsibility and prosperity, it's not the be all end all.

+1

Why do BP executives care if they destroy hundreds of business?
Why do BP executives care if they destroy hundreds of miles of coastline?
Why do BP executives care that dozens of their workers died?

False question. They don't. They still have their million dollar homes, live in cooks, Benz and Bimmers, pools and yachts.
In current setup, nothing happens.
In free market, a small chance that BP goes under, and the execs are unhirable.

 

[YumYum]

Okay. Thanks. Because there does not seem to be much support for a free market in our society.
However, I hold the opinion that laissez-faire free-market capitalism is the best system ever developed for the distribution of goods and services, and it should be allowed.
Perfection and utopia IMO only happen in theory, so while the free market could bring us closer to social responsibility and prosperity, it's not the be all end all.

The point is that even in "laissez-faire free-market capitalism" you will have problems.

Let's say you sit down to a no-holds, no limit, no regulations, laissez-faire, free market poker game. All the players are sitting on $100,000 in chips to gamble with. Sitting in the game is Bill Gates. He has $10 billion in chips. Guess who will win?

 

[Travlyr]

The point is that even in "laissez-faire free-market capitalism" you will have problems.

Let's say you sit down to a no-holds, no limit, no regulations, laissez-faire, free market poker game. All the players are sitting on $100,000 in chips to gamble with. Sitting in the game is Bill Gates. He has $10 billion in chips. Guess who will win?

Of course there will be plenty of problems when we get back to laissez-faire free-market capitalism. But the playing field is leveled. I can walk away from this game if I so choose.

 

[YumYum]

Of course there will be plenty of problems when we get back to laissez-faire free-market capitalism. But the playing field is leveled. I can walk away from this game if I so choose.

What if Bill Gates places $100,000 on the first bet and you lose? You walk away; minus your hundred thousand.

In a free market, people with all the money can put the little guy out of business. Look at Wal Mart.

 

[Travlyr]

What if Bill Gates places $100,000 on the first bet and you lose? You walk away; minus your hundred thousand.

In a free market, people with all the money can put the little guy out of business. Look at Wal Mart.

I don't waste my money on gambling. I lose nothing in your scenario.

And no. You and I have never witnessed a true free market. The last time we had laissez-faire free-market capitalism was before WalMart got started. Think... 1870... maybe even before that... 1850's or so.

 

[angelatc]

I don't waste my money on gambling. I lose nothing in your scenario.

And no. You and I have never witnessed a true free market. The last time we had laissez-faire free-market capitalism was before WalMart got started. Think... 1870... maybe even before that... 1850's or so.

A&P was founded in 1859. At their peak in the '30's, they had 16,000 stores, more than twice the number that WalMart had in 2008. And I'm counting international stores in the WalMart number.

 

[Travlyr]

A&P was founded in 1859. At their peak in the '30's, they had 16,000 stores, more than twice the number that WalMart had in 2008. And I'm counting international stores in the WalMart number.

Interesting. Did A&P ever receive government or international bank favors or subsidies?

In the 1860's international bankers really began to gain a foothold in America again. By the 1870's they were beginning to fund all sorts of business activity.

1862: By April $449,338,902 worth of Lincoln’s debt free money has been printed and distributed. He states of this,

“We gave the people of this republic the greatest blessing they ever had, their own paper money to pay their own debts.”

That same year The Times of London publishes a story containing the following statement,

"If that mischievous financial policy, which had its origin in the North American Republic, should become indurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off debts and be without a debt. It will have all the money necessary to carry on its commerce.

It will become prosperous beyond precedent in the history of civilized governments of the world. The brains and the wealth of all countries will go to North America. That government must be destroyed or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe."

Timeline of the Rothschild family

 

[cubical]

I agree that it was most likely an accident. Should anyone be punished? Who should pay? The taxpayers/consumers are going to pay, and we have already paid billions to the EPA to protect us. But who should pay? Should anybody go to jail?

BP should pay. It was their accident. The government should make sure they clean it up. If the government made sure BP cleaned up the mess the free market would serve the purpose of getting all the other oil companies to make sure this kind of thing happens under their watch after seeing how much BP had to suffer.

 

[Thrashertm]

+1

Why do BP executives care if they destroy hundreds of business?
Why do BP executives care if they destroy hundreds of miles of coastline?
Why do BP executives care that dozens of their workers died?

False question. They don't. They still have their million dollar homes, live in cooks, Benz and Bimmers, pools and yachts.
In current setup, nothing happens.
In free market, a small chance that BP goes under, and the execs are unhirable.

In a completely free market system, we wouldn't have the corporate entity shielding individuals from liability.

 

[angelatc]

Interesting. Did A&P ever receive government or international bank favors or subsidies?

Oh sure, and they were brutal about putting pressure on their suppliers for low prices, too. They were innovators in efficiency, and actually introduced the concept that people could get groceries off the shelf without a clerk.

In the '50's Congress even passed several laws designed specifically to protect people from low prices.
predatory pricing.

 

[angelatc]

+1

Why do BP executives care if they destroy hundreds of business?
Why do BP executives care if they destroy hundreds of miles of coastline?
Why do BP executives care that dozens of their workers died?

False question. They don't. They still have their million dollar homes, live in cooks, Benz and Bimmers, pools and yachts.
In current setup, nothing happens.
In free market, a small chance that BP goes under, and the execs are unhirable.

I don't know what world you live in, but I can't imagine you thinking that everybody who makes a better-than-average living has no heart or soul.

You honestly believe that nobody at the company cares about anything except themselves.

If you believe people are really that ugly on the inside, why do you think freedom will work?

 

[silverhandorder]

Market is not perfect but it is far better then mixed economy.

 

[nayjevin]

But your volunteering to help clean up the mess should not be construed as a "bailout" for oil spills. Your helping reduces the cost to BP unless you are reimbursed. They need to be held civilly accountable. Or else they will take unwarranted risks in the future thinking that scores of volunteers will "bail them out."

That seems to me to be thinking in political soundbytes instead of reality.

If there is oil approaching my property, threatening to damage it, I will attempt to stop that damage no matter what happened in any civil court - that is, unless some state institution or pseudo-corp like BP/Halliburton/Root has the disaster site barricaded.

 

[LibForestPaul]

I don't know what world you live in, but I can't imagine you thinking that everybody who makes a better-than-average living has no heart or soul.

You honestly believe that nobody at the company cares about anything except themselves.

If you believe people are really that ugly on the inside, why do you think freedom will work?

Freedom is elusive, because people really are that ugly.

American Slavery, American Indian Genocide, Japan Chinese Massacre, Bolshevik Russia, Nazi Germany, Imperial Britain, these did not happen with people caring about people.

I have known more than a few CEO's, (small companies), yes they are that self centered.
P.S. That is why a large government is so dangerous, because people are inherently deluded.