Fred Koch: Oil Man Against Communism

FrankRep said:
I'm sure they felt Ron Paul just couldn't win, but I'm sure the Kochs would have donated to him if he won the GOP nomination.

Koch Brothers donated to Rand Paul though.



Rand Paul -

Koch Industries: $17,000

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cid=N00030836&cycle=2014
Click to expand...

Now why is it ok for you to use that data to claim the Koch brothers funded Rand, but you and others try to deflect the same source when it's pointed out that Goldman Sachs funded Cruz?
 
FrankRep said:
I'm sure they felt Ron Paul just couldn't win, but I'm sure the Kochs would have donated to him if he won the GOP nomination.

Koch Brothers donated to Rand Paul though.



Rand Paul -

Koch Industries: $17,000

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cid=N00030836&cycle=2014
Click to expand...


I am sure if Dr. Paul was bankrolled by these men he could have had a fighting chance--instead they backed a weak candidate like Romney who tried very hard to make people believe that RomneyCare was not ObamaCare just repackaged. Imagine if the Koch-backed nonprofit groups such as Americans for Prosperity gave any help with phone banking before the election for Ron Paul. Also if the Koch brothers were interested in people getting back to basics with freedom and liberty philosophy why haven't they bankrolled any of Dr. Paul's efforts like; Campaign For Liberty, his Homeschool projects, etc...? Oh yes, they started bankrolling (infiltrated with cronies) the Tea Party but not backing and bankrolling it for Ron Paul, they basically ignored him and our grassroots efforts.


Why aren't they backing any REAL effort to audit the FED?

So many questions...but one has to say to themselves these people that bankroll candidates, if they are really for freedom and liberty why continue with establishment-type cronies? I know a few exceptions like Rand and Ted, but the majority of the GOP don't fully back those men. The Koch brothers had it good when Bush (the oil man) was in office. Now, Obama is in office, threatening to close down coal mines and limit oil drilling makes him a threat to their profits.

Sorry if I seem a bit cynical, about politics, dirty politics, in general, has given me a bad taste in my mouth for years.

The phony left/right paradigm is there to keep sucking people back in every time.
 
Last edited:
donnay said:
I am sure if Dr. Paul was bankrolled by these men he could have had a fighting chance--instead they backed a weak candidate like Romney who tried very hard to make people believe that RomneyCare was not ObamaCare just repackaged. Imagine if the Koch-backed nonprofit groups such as Americans for Prosperity gave any help with phone banking before the election for Ron Paul. Also if the Koch brothers were interested in people getting back to basics with freedom and liberty philosophy why haven't they bankrolled any of Dr. Paul's efforts like; Campaign For Liberty, his Homeschool projects, etc...? Oh yes, they started bankrolling (infiltrated with cronies) the Tea Party but not backing and bankrolling it for Ron Paul, they basically ignored him and our grassroots efforts.
Click to expand...

The Kochs help fund FreedomWorks and this organization is highly supportive of people like Ron Paul, Justin Amash, Thomas Massie, and Rand Paul.

I think you're have to admit that FreedomWorks is pretty damn awesome.


The Kochs funded Mitt Romney because the Kochs were anti-Obama.
 
FrankRep said:
The Kochs help fund FreedomWorks and this organization is highly supportive of people like Ron Paul, Justin Amash, Thomas Massie, and Rand Paul.

I think you're have to admit that FreedomWorks is pretty damn awesome.


The Kochs funded Mitt Romney because the Kochs were anti-Obama.
Click to expand...


FreedomWorks began as a Koch brothers-funded group called Citizens for a Sound Economy, which eventually split into two groups, one of which became FreedomWorks.
Click to expand...

Source:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/sources-cash-strapped-freedomworks-in-state-of-financial-dis


Tea party leader Dick Armey quits Koch-linked FreedomWorks over ‘matters of principle’
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/12/...inked-freedomworks-over-matters-of-principle/

Interesting comment in the comment section (It actually sounds like something I would say):


NewHampshire
• 11 months ago

How the heck many times do we REAL tea party people have to educate the media on this?

1) The tea party started on Dec 16, 2007 and FW was not part of it

2) The tea party is not a GOP PAC and does not collect money -- it is a movement

3) FW stole the name 'tea party' in 2009 along with a few other
groups who are also GOP PACS (TPP, TPE, TPN) and not legit tea parties

4) The tea party has nothing to do with this group and continues to
get stronger and stronger. It is a liberty movement that has nothing to
do with the GOP, and is not a party itself.

5) There are maybe one or two 'tea party' congressmen in office and
one of them is retiring, in fact he is the 'father of the tea party' Ron
Paul.

I wish the media would stop calling these bogus groups 'tea parties'
because they are merely extensions of the GOP, or groups that were
around long before who are funded by corporations. The real movement
continues to grow. Its people are its lobbyists -- they do not hold teas
for incoming freshman nor do they solicit millions to pay off slick
consultants and lawyers.


We know that Ron Paul had a better than even chance of beating Obama--yet no one will admit it.
 
On FreedomWorks:

Dick Armey tried to pull a Coup and tried to kick out Matt Kibbe and other libertarian-minded people, but the Coup failed.

As a result, FreedomWorks kicked out Dick Armey and his crony co-conspirators and the libertarian-minded people won.


This article explains it in detail:

GLENN BECK REVEALS A STORY HE HASN’T BEEN ABLE TO SHARE FOR OVER A YEAR
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...-he-hasnt-been-able-to-share-for-over-a-year/

Video:

Glenn Beck tells about a COUP at Freedom Works and he’s been holding it in for a YEAR
http://therightscoop.com/dude-glenn...-works-and-hes-been-holding-it-in-for-a-year/
 
Last edited:
donnay said:
I am sure if Dr. Paul was bankrolled by these men he could have had a fighting chance--instead they backed a weak candidate like Romney who tried very hard to make people believe that RomneyCare was not ObamaCare just repackaged. Imagine if the Koch-backed nonprofit groups such as Americans for Prosperity gave any help with phone banking before the election for Ron Paul. Also if the Koch brothers were interested in people getting back to basics with freedom and liberty philosophy why haven't they bankrolled any of Dr. Paul's efforts like; Campaign For Liberty, his Homeschool projects, etc...? Oh yes, they started bankrolling (infiltrated with cronies) the Tea Party but not backing and bankrolling it for Ron Paul, they basically ignored him and our grassroots efforts.


Why aren't they backing any REAL effort to audit the FED?
Click to expand...
FreedomWorks, Cato, Reason, Heritage and many other Koch-backed groups support audit the Fed. Americans for Prosperity don't get involved in endorsing and campaigning for politicians.

They also funded multiple events held by Ron Paul-affiliated Young Americans of Liberty.

So many questions...but one has to say to themselves these people that bankroll candidates, if they are really for freedom and liberty why continue with establishment-type cronies? I know a few exceptions like Rand and Ted, but the majority of the GOP don't fully back those men. The Koch brothers had it good when Bush (the oil man) was in office. Now, Obama is in office, threatening to close down coal mines and limit oil drilling makes him a threat to their profits.
Click to expand...
And it's good that the Kochs are standing up to Obama when he's doing the wrong thing.
 
donnay said:
Source:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/sources-cash-strapped-freedomworks-in-state-of-financial-dis


Tea party leader Dick Armey quits Koch-linked FreedomWorks over ‘matters of principle’
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/12/...inked-freedomworks-over-matters-of-principle/

Interesting comment in the comment section (It actually sounds like something I would say):


NewHampshire
• 11 months ago

How the heck many times do we REAL tea party people have to educate the media on this?

1) The tea party started on Dec 16, 2007 and FW was not part of it

2) The tea party is not a GOP PAC and does not collect money -- it is a movement

3) FW stole the name 'tea party' in 2009 along with a few other
groups who are also GOP PACS (TPP, TPE, TPN) and not legit tea parties

4) The tea party has nothing to do with this group and continues to
get stronger and stronger. It is a liberty movement that has nothing to
do with the GOP, and is not a party itself.

5) There are maybe one or two 'tea party' congressmen in office and
one of them is retiring, in fact he is the 'father of the tea party' Ron
Paul.

I wish the media would stop calling these bogus groups 'tea parties'
because they are merely extensions of the GOP, or groups that were
around long before who are funded by corporations. The real movement
continues to grow. Its people are its lobbyists -- they do not hold teas
for incoming freshman nor do they solicit millions to pay off slick
consultants and lawyers.


We know that Ron Paul had a better than even chance of beating Obama--yet no one will admit it.
Click to expand...



Actually, FreedomWorks had been pushing for a "Tea Party" long before the December 2007 …

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0910/Tea_Party_false_starts.html
 
FrankRep said:
To be truly fair, Koch Industries gave Rand and Trey the same amount for the primaries according to your link.


Rand Paul - $5,000
Trey Grayson - $5,000

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.php?cmte=C00236489&cycle=2010
Click to expand...

They supported Grayson versus Paul in the primary. The donation to Paul came in the general. Yes they preferred him over the Democrat as they would any GOP nominee but let's not pretend the Koch's have been on board with Rand from the beginning. When it comes to political donations they largely support establishment types as is their business prerogative, which is rational but not particularly principled.
 
GregSarnowski said:
They supported Grayson versus Paul in the primary. The donation to Paul came in the general. Yes they preferred him over the Democrat as they would any GOP nominee but let's not pretend the Koch's have been on board with Rand from the beginning. When it comes to political donations they largely support establishment types as is their business prerogative, which is rational but not particularly principled.
Click to expand...

I'll point out again that Koch Industries gave Rand Paul $17,000 dollars total. They knew he could win the general and they supported him.

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cid=N00030836&cycle=2014
 
FrankRep said:
On FreedomWorks:

Dick Armey tried to pull a Coup and tried to kick out Matt Kibbe and other libertarian-minded people, but the Coup failed.

As a result, FreedomWorks kicked out Dick Armey and his crony co-conspirators and the libertarian-minded people won.


This article explains it in detail:

GLENN BECK REVEALS A STORY HE HASN’T BEEN ABLE TO SHARE FOR OVER A YEAR
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...-he-hasnt-been-able-to-share-for-over-a-year/

Video:

Glenn Beck tells about a COUP at Freedom Works and he’s been holding it in for a YEAR
http://therightscoop.com/dude-glenn...-works-and-hes-been-holding-it-in-for-a-year/
Click to expand...

Here's another side:

Dick Armey Sticks His FreedomWorks Payback to Glenn Beck
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/poli...ks-his-freedomworks-payback-glenn-beck/60624/

The "Smoking Gun" Memo That Triggered the FreedomWorks Feud
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/dick-armey-freedomworks-kibbe-book-contract-smoking-gun
 
Last edited:
donnay said:
If we are going to get technical it was the Truth Movement who started the Tea Party--I know that for a fact because I was there!.
Click to expand...

These guys beat you. Try 1991.

"Demonstrators hurl tea bags in bid against raising taxes". Victoria Advocate. Associated Press. July 23, 1991.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=esYcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=51kEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7010,4383884&hl=en

"'Tea Party' Protests Taxation, But Don't Expect A Revolution" Miami Herald. October 20, 1991
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we...page=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM
 
FrankRep said:
These guys beat you. Try 1991.

"Demonstrators hurl tea bags in bid against raising taxes". Victoria Advocate. Associated Press. July 23, 1991.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=esYcAAAAIBAJ&sjid=51kEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7010,4383884&hl=en

"'Tea Party' Protests Taxation, But Don't Expect A Revolution" Miami Herald. October 20, 1991
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we...page=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM
Click to expand...

I definitely give credit to RP. The Gadsden flag was used heavily at his rallies.
 
Do the Koch Brothers Promote the Teachings of Ludwig von Mises?


Yes, they do!





What Is Economic Freedom?


Koch Industries, Inc


Economic freedom is a system in which private property rights are fully respected under an impartial and beneficial rule of law; where people are free to voluntarily trade for what they need and want; that they have sound money which gives people an effective medium of exchange. Finally, government is kept small and limited to those activities that contribute to societal well-being, rather than undermine it.


Find out more

Economic freedom: a heated debate, Discovery July 2012

Economic Freedom in 60 seconds



Recommended reading


Start with:


- Economics in One Lesson: The Shortest and Surest Way to Understand Basic Economics, by Henry Hazlitt
- Basic Economics: A Common Sense Guide to the Economy, by Thomas Sowell
- The Law, by Frederic Bastiat
- The Use of Knowledge in Society, by F.A. Hayek
- Common Sense Economics: What Everyone Should Know About Wealth and Prosperity, by Gwartney, Stroup, Lee and Ferrarini
- Why Wages Rise, by Baldy Harper
- What is Seen and What is Not Seen, by Frederic Bastiat
- I, Pencil, by Leonard Read


Move on to:


- The Road to Serfdom, by F.A. Hayek
- The Fatal Conceit: The Errors of Socialism, The Collected Works of F. A. Hayek
- Free to Choose: A Personal Statement, by Milton and Rose Friedman
- Capitalism and Freedom, by Milton Friedman
- A Conflict of Visions: Ideological Origins of Political Struggles, by Thomas Sowell
- The Science of Success: How Market-Based Management Built the World's Largest Private Company, by Charles G. Koch
- How The West Grew Rich: The Economic Transformation Of The Industrial World, by Nathan Rosenberg and L.E. Birdzell, Jr.
- In Pursuit: Of Happiness and Good Government, by Charles Murray


Want to learn more?

- Human Action: A Treatise on Economics, by Ludwig von Mises
- Constitution of Liberty, by F.A. Hayek
 
How the Koch Brothers Became Billionaires


By Robert Wenzel

December 31, 2012

Forbes has a cover story puff piece out on the Koch brothers, but it is informative in a number of ways. We learn for example how the Koch brothers became billionaires. Using their father’s asset base, they bought more assets, sometimes using great debt, that then soared in value as a result of Federal Reserve money printing: Over time, Charles says, he learned he could take on profitable risk by investing in long-lived assets that his customers didn’t want to buy themselves. Koch’s father died on a hunting trip in 1967 at age 67, shortly after handing full management control over to Charles, setting in motion the two most momentous turning points in the company’s history. The following year Charles made the riskiest, and likely most profitable, move of his career. His family owned 35% of the Pine Bend refinery outside Minneapolis, with Union Oil of California holding 40% and J. Howard Marshall owning 15%. Koch wanted to buy out Unocal, but the company was asking too much. So he persuaded the older and more experienced Marshall–who later became infamous at age 89 for marrying the young stripper-turned-Playboy-pinup Anna Nicole Smith–to combine his 15% interest with Koch’s 35% to prevent Unocal from assembling a majority stake to sell to outsiders. The risk paid off handsomely. Marshall’s heirs, including the widow of his son, J. Pierce, hold Koch Industries stock worth at least $10 billion. And while Charles took on a potentially crippling $25 million in debt to buy out Unocal–something he has eschewed ever since–Pine Bend evolved into a cash engine that provided Charles the fuel to expand. It wasn’t rocket science, but they did act. Charles was most likely influenced by Murray Rothbard’s What Has Government Done to Our Money, which was published in 1963, five years before the Unocal refinery acquisition. The monograph discussed how the Fed was debasing the currency and how it would lead to major price inflation, which did occur and peaked out in the early 1980s at around 15%. If it wasn’t for that inflation, foreseen by Rothbard, the Koch acquisition of the Unocal asset, with the heavy debt taken on, would have been a bust.

Price inflation from 1963 to 1981 In the Forbes profile, we also learn of a very peculiar view Charles holds about democracy: The goal has always been, Charles says, “true democracy,” where people “can run their own lives and choose what they want to buy, choose how to spend their money.” (“Now in our democracy you elect somebody every two to four years and they tell you how to run your life,” he says.) People running their own lives would be less democracy and more a private property society (i.e., a Rothbardian anarcho-capitalist view), without legislators and other government operators attempting to micro-manage populations. Such a private property society would be a good thing, but it is hard to square Charles’ supposed take on this with the brothers behind the scenes role in propping up various politicians who move in a direction quite different from a private property society. Says Forbes: Mitt Romney’s loss was a huge blow to them, both in terms of likely policy outcomes and personal reputation.[...]“We raised a lot of money and mobilized an awful lot of people, and we lost, plain and simple,” says David. “We’re going to study what worked, what didn’t work, and improve our efforts in the future. We’re not going to roll over and play dead.” Quite instructive in the piece, for which Charles and David were clearly cooperating, is that Friedrich Hayek is mentioned, but not the Austrian economists Rothbard and Ludwig von Mises: Koch Industries essentially applies the ideas of Friedrich Hayek to the art of making money. Hayek, the dean of the so-called Austrian School of economists, celebrated the chaos of decentralized decision-making as a way for every individual to decide what’s in his or her best self-interest. Charles and David know better. The Cato Institute is mentioned in the piece, but not the fact that the idea of the Institute and the early driving force behind it was Rothbard. Rothbard, in fact, came up with the name, Cato, for the Institute. It is named after Cato’s Letters, a series of British essays penned in the early 18th century by John Trenchard and Thomas Gordon expounding the political views of philosopher John Locke, that had a strong influence on the American Revolution’s intellectual environment The essays were named after Cato the Younger, the defender of republican institutions in Rome. As David Gordon once said to me with a laugh, it wasn’t Charles Koch and Ed Crane, who came up with the name based on their deep knowledge of the early 18th century intellectual influences on the American Revolution. Also interesting, in a sidebar to the Forbes piece, we learn there is a good Koch brother, who is not into manipulating the world: Frederick, who never got involved with company management, moved to Monaco after selling out to his brothers. The 79-year-old Yale Drama graduate now lives quietly, collecting rare books, fine art and opera manuscripts. He’s also an arts patron: he funded the full refurbishment of Shakespeare’s Swan Theatre in Stratford-upon-Avon in the 1980s and has donated works to permanent collections at the Frick, Morgan and Carnegie libraries. Frederick owns properties across Europe, including an Austrian hunting lodge and French villa.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/12/robert-wenzel/how-the-koch-brothers-becamebillionaires/
 
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