Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse

[acptulsa]

There's another reason to keep the federal government's nose out of it. Nobody can delay a project like Washington can.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Anti-Fed or anybody else following the details,

Who exactly would get the $$Billion+ Marine Insurance Claim?

Maersk?

[MENTION=28153]vita3[/MENTION]

I can't say for sure, because the list is so long.

If BP's payouts over Deepwater Horizon are any example, every single entity that can claim any kind of hardship will be in line for part of that money, from the state and feds, all the way to every single shipper that had so much as one container on that ship, to the families of those that died.

 

[sparebulb]

[MENTION=28153]vita3[/MENTION]

I can't say for sure, because the list is so long.

If BP's payouts over Deepwater Horizon are any example, every single entity that can claim any kind of hardship will be in line for part of that money, from the state and feds, all the way to every single shipper that had so much as one container on that ship, to the families of those that died.

AF, refresh my memory.

When the ship blocked the Suez Canal a couple of years ago, wasn't there a possible scenario where each individual entity that had items being shipped on the ship were possibly going to have to pony up for the damage claims?

Or did I hallucinate this?

 

[dannno]

I genuinely think that Alex is a great salesman, regardless of whether it is dick pills or anything else.

I also think that either you are really Alex's mom or you have an unhealthy attachment to people you don't know.

You're lying about something you don't know anything about to disparage a person and I'm the unhealthy one?

 

[TheCount]

I genuinely think that Alex is a great salesman, regardless of whether it is dick pills or anything else.

I also think that either you are really Alex's mom or you have an unhealthy attachment to people you don't know.

Parasocial interaction refers to a kind of psychological relationship experienced by an audience in their mediated encounters with performers in the mass media, particularly on television and on online platforms. Viewers or listeners come to consider media personalities as friends, despite having no or limited interactions with them.

...

A parasocial interaction ... becomes a parasocial relationship after repeated exposure to the media persona causes the media user to develop illusions of intimacy, friendship, and identification.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasocial_interaction

 

[Occam's Banana]

Dali Timeline from Data Recorder in Striking Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, March 26, 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rxKQ8Tr94s
{What is Going on With Shipping? | 29 March 2024}

In this episode - maritime historian at Campbell University (@campbelledu) and former merchant mariner - discusses the timeline released by the NTSB from the Dali's Vessel Data Recorder and lays out some of the questions, issues that have been raised, and questions that need to be answered.

[video timestamps:]

00:00 - Intro & NTSB footage
02:23 - Why did MSC Toronto sailed with Tugs?
03:03 - How to Start a Ship's Main Engine
03:59 - How to Steer A Ship
04:46 - Why No Tugs with Dali?
08:04 - Bridge Collapse in 1980?
09:14 - Vessel Data Recorder Replay-Power Loss
13:07 - Did the Emergency Diesel Generator Activate?
17:26 - Dropping Anchor
22:26 - Why does Dali turn Left?
26:26 - Questions for NTSB?
​

[links & references:]

Marine Traffic
- https://www.marinetraffic.com

Full video | Francis Scott Key bridge collapses in Baltimore
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEkRjlSgIIQ

NTSB Timeline Reveals Crucial Minutes Leading Up to Baltimore Bridge Strike
- https://gcaptain.com/ntsb-timeline-reveals-crucial-minutes-leading-up-to-baltimore-bridge-strike/

NTSB B-Roll - Hazardous Material Investigators and Engineers Aboard the Cargo Ship Dali
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIA5uH-i08I

How To Start The Ship's Main Engine: From Preparation to Full Away
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFmCxOjY_A

How We Steer A Cargo Ship | Life At Sea
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T-wFfPm37U

Why No Tugs MV Dali/Key Bridge Baltimore
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsdZVp0opsQ

Why No Tugs Follow- Up (Pt.2)
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiLT2JHeBOQ

Spirit of Norfolk Lost; Spar Lyra Not Under Command; Victory Rover, Z-ONE & others to the Rescue!
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65-yG6Jw9S0

Ships emergency diesel generator and switchboard
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GGfTqUJG3A

How to let go an anchor - Anchor dropping Step by step procedure
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHyCj7q0pzI

What's Next at the Bridge Collapse Site?
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aozzrK06ys

How Did A Ship Destroy Baltimore's Key Bridge?
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlIhoxIxM30
​

 

[charrob]

Dali Timeline from Data Recorder in Striking Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, March 26, 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rxKQ8Tr94s
{What is Going on With Shipping? | 29 March 2024}

In this episode - maritime historian at Campbell University (@campbelledu) and former merchant mariner - discusses the timeline released by the NTSB from the Dali's Vessel Data Recorder and lays out some of the questions, issues that have been raised, and questions that need to be answered.

[video timestamps:]

00:00 - Intro & NTSB footage
02:23 - Why did MSC Toronto sailed with Tugs?
03:03 - How to Start a Ship's Main Engine
03:59 - How to Steer A Ship
04:46 - Why No Tugs with Dali?
08:04 - Bridge Collapse in 1980?
09:14 - Vessel Data Recorder Replay-Power Loss
13:07 - Did the Emergency Diesel Generator Activate?
17:26 - Dropping Anchor
22:26 - Why does Dali turn Left?
26:26 - Questions for NTSB?
​

[links & references:]

Marine Traffic
- https://www.marinetraffic.com

Full video | Francis Scott Key bridge collapses in Baltimore
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEkRjlSgIIQ

NTSB Timeline Reveals Crucial Minutes Leading Up to Baltimore Bridge Strike
- https://gcaptain.com/ntsb-timeline-reveals-crucial-minutes-leading-up-to-baltimore-bridge-strike/

NTSB B-Roll - Hazardous Material Investigators and Engineers Aboard the Cargo Ship Dali
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIA5uH-i08I

How To Start The Ship's Main Engine: From Preparation to Full Away
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFmCxOjY_A

How We Steer A Cargo Ship | Life At Sea
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T-wFfPm37U

Why No Tugs MV Dali/Key Bridge Baltimore
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsdZVp0opsQ

Why No Tugs Follow- Up (Pt.2)
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiLT2JHeBOQ

Spirit of Norfolk Lost; Spar Lyra Not Under Command; Victory Rover, Z-ONE & others to the Rescue!
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65-yG6Jw9S0

Ships emergency diesel generator and switchboard
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GGfTqUJG3A

How to let go an anchor - Anchor dropping Step by step procedure
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHyCj7q0pzI

What's Next at the Bridge Collapse Site?
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aozzrK06ys

How Did A Ship Destroy Baltimore's Key Bridge?
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlIhoxIxM30
​

Great Video. Thanks for sharing.

So the ship's emergency generator which is relatively small (about the size of a truck engine) is tied to just a few systems, one of which is control of the rudder.

So the question is why it appears they have no rudder control despite the emergency generator being on. And that with no rudder control, the current coming out of Curtis Bay into the Patapsco could have been enough to turn the bow into the concrete supports of the bridge. Had they had rudder control, since the boat was moving forward about 9 mph, they could have easily passed under the bridge even if the motor was not working.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Great Video. Thanks for sharing.

So the ship's emergency generator which is relatively small (about the size of a truck engine) is tied to just a few systems, one of which is control of the rudder.

So the question is why it appears they have no rudder control despite the emergency generator being on. And that with no rudder control, the current coming out of Curtis Bay into the Patapsco could have been enough to turn the bow into the concrete supports of the bridge. Had they had rudder control, since the boat was moving forward about 9 mph, they could have easily passed under the bridge even if the motor was not working.

I misspoke earlier in this thread, but this is important to note:

On a lot of older vessels the e-gen will not supply power to steering engine.

But even more important to note, on any modern vessel that has "Z - drive" or "azipod" propulsion, you will have no steering, or more correctly, thrust control, on e-gen power.

That includes almost all cruise ships.

That said, I think they lost a main 480V buss that, even when the e-gen kicked on, it did not apply power to the downstream circuits and just tripped right back off.

Or, the electric powered bow thruster overloaded it and tripped it off, although that normally would not be powered by the e-gen either.

 

[charrob]

I misspoke earlier in this thread, but this is important to note:

On a lot of older vessels the e-gen will not supply power to steering engine.

But even more important to note, on any modern vessel that has "Z - drive" or "azipod" propulsion, you will have no steering, or more correctly, thrust control, on e-gen power.

That includes almost all cruise ships.

That said, I think they lost a main 480V buss that, even when the e-gen kicked on, it did not apply power to the downstream circuits and just tripped right back off.

Or, the electric powered bow thruster overloaded it and tripped it off, although that normally would not be powered by the e-gen either.

Thanks. I don’t know anything about big container ships, but it seems rudder control is most important even if the engine isn’t running: why would a ship builder not have an emergency generator tied into powering control of the rudder?

 

[Anti Federalist]

Thanks. I don’t know anything about big container ships, but it seems rudder control is most important even if the engine isn’t running: why would a ship builder not have an emergency generator tied into powering control of the rudder?

Like I noted before, it's cheaper.

On the type of vessels I ran, the four main gens supplied high voltage propulsion power as well as ship's service power and were segregated into two spaces, the idea being that it would be almost impossible that both plants, 2 mains, one main thruster, one or two bow or stern thrusters on each one, with totally separate distribution and control systems, in totally separate spaces, each with its own alarms and fire suppression, could fail at the same time.

On very old ships, steam provides power to the steering engine.

The first electric hydraulics units drew too much power to be hooked up to the e-gen.

More modern designs, like this vessel do have them tied in.

But if the distribution system failed, it would not make any difference, no power would get to the steering engine anyway.

And that is what I think happened here.

The same thing happened to that cruise ship in the Gulf of Mexico about ten years ago, where everybody got stuck onboard for days and days on a dark ship with no lights, water, AC or sanitary systems.

 

[charrob]

Like I noted before, it's cheaper.

On the type of vessels I ran, the four main gens supplied high voltage propulsion power as well as ship's service power and were segregated into two spaces, the idea being that it would be almost impossible that both plants, 2 mains, one main thruster, one or two bow or stern thrusters on each one, with totally separate distribution and control systems, in totally separate spaces, each with its own alarms and fire suppression, could fail at the same time.

On very old ships, steam provides power to the steering engine.

The first electric hydraulics units drew too much power to be hooked up to the e-gen.

More modern designs, like this vessel do have them tied in.

But if the distribution system failed, it would not make any difference, no power would get to the steering engine anyway.

And that is what I think happened here.

The same thing happened to that cruise ship in the Gulf of Mexico about ten years ago, where everybody got stuck onboard for days and days on a dark ship with no lights, water, AC or sanitary systems.

Thanks.

 

[vita3]

[MENTION=28153]vita3[/MENTION]

I can't say for sure, because the list is so long.

If BP's payouts over Deepwater Horizon are any example, every single entity that can claim any kind of hardship will be in line for part of that money, from the state and feds, all the way to every single shipper that had so much as one container on that ship, to the families of those that died.

Thanks. I wonder if they study the art of Disaster Capitalism in the Ivy's?

 

[Occam's Banana]

MV Dali and the Francis Scott Key Bridge | March 31 Update & Who Pays for the Salvage?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wim-_Q_59o
{What is Going on With Shipping? | 31 March 2024}

Who Pays?

In this episode - maritime historian at Campbell University (@campbelledu) and former merchant mariner - provides an update on MV Dali and discusses the insurance ramifications of the accident.

[video timestamps:]

00:00 - Update on MV Dali and Key Bridge
03:36 - Review of Power Outage on Dali
07:15 - Dali Sitting on Gas Lines
10:18 - Insurance Implications
19:08 - $3.1 Billion in Insurance!
​

[links & references:]

Key Bridge Response 2024
- https://www.keybridgeresponse2024.com/

gCaptain - Baltimore Bridge Collapse
- https://gcaptain.com/tag/baltimore-bridge-collapse/

Marine Traffic
- https://www.marinetraffic.com/

Baltimore port bridge collapse: Global ocean carriers put U.S. companies on hook for urgent cargo pickup
- https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/com...s-on-hook-for-urgent-cargo-pickup/ar-BB1kDY9W

Dali Cargo owners face massive costs if general average is declared
- https://theloadstar.com/dali-cargo-owners-face-massive-costs-if-general-average-is-declared/

International Group of P&I Clubs
- https://www.igpandi.org/reinsurance/
​

 

[Anti Federalist]

gCaptain - Baltimore Bridge Collapse
- https://gcaptain.com/tag/baltimore-bridge-collapse/

Bookmark that site.

It's the "go to" place online for accurate information on shipping, vessel and maritime related issues.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Told you so.

No.

Fuck you, no.

Marxists and Jews and leftists and queeers and coloreds, all of you, no.

You've taken enough of my history, you have scrubbed enough of my past away.

No, you do not get this.

(Now, of course, that's just internet blowhardery on my part. Of course they'll get the name changed, they'll have no real opposition to it. White people are too enstupidated, too disillusioned, too demoralized, too disorganized, too sick from the mind poison, too busy figuring out how to kill their offspring and too weak to lift a finger in their own defense as the momentum of genocide speeds up all around them.)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/african-american-groups-call-ditching-154659041.html

 

[PAF]

Is that because Biden is footing the bill on the taxpayers, and maybe they are looking for ways to reduce the expense?

j/k

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Dali Timeline from Data Recorder in Striking Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, March 26, 2024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rxKQ8Tr94s
{What is Going on With Shipping? | 29 March 2024}

In this episode - maritime historian at Campbell University (@campbelledu) and former merchant mariner - discusses the timeline released by the NTSB from the Dali's Vessel Data Recorder and lays out some of the questions, issues that have been raised, and questions that need to be answered.
...

Good video, answers many questions.

- Mainly, the ship turned towards the tower because of the current (tide going out) from a channel coming from the right side of the ship. They had no rudder control, and no time to put the ship into reverse. Dropping the anchor probably had no effect.

- Underwater cable/pipe damage: Sounds like the ship is now sitting on a high pressure gas line. Damage unknown, other than the fact that it is not leaking right now. Makes moving the ship a little tricky.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Great Video. Thanks for sharing.

So the ship's emergency generator which is relatively small (about the size of a truck engine) is tied to just a few systems, one of which is control of the rudder.

So the question is why it appears they have no rudder control despite the emergency generator being on. And that with no rudder control, the current coming out of Curtis Bay into the Patapsco could have been enough to turn the bow into the concrete supports of the bridge. Had they had rudder control, since the boat was moving forward about 9 mph, they could have easily passed under the bridge even if the motor was not working.

That part was interesting, and explained a lot.

 

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

 

[jmdrake]

Cyber attack?