FOX/RPI Debate Update from National HQ

If he doesn't get in and we don't do something drastic to bring it to the publics attention, then it's game over. We need to make a huge stink about it if he does not get his chance. There are enough of us to do this and if people know that they excluded him for no good reason, they may start to open their eyes.
 
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Well I too am furious about this if nothing changes and they don't let him in. But the thing I keep thinking about is that it might be good even though it is also bad because people might keep seeing him on the news and how much money he has and then not see him in the debate, and then wonder why he wasn't there. Then maybe they will notice how little he is on fox news compared to cnn, and maybe the light will come on.

(I know, I know, thats really hoping for a LOT of thinking for the average sheep out there, but who knows, anything's possible:rolleyes:)
 
I will fall back on my normal WWRPD type of answer. Would he warrant a preemptive strike? If not, then, make PLANS but do nothing. Be prepared to defend our rights to be heard but do NOT fire the first shot. It makes the message look hypocritical.
 
I will fall back on my normal WWRPD type of answer. Would he warrant a preemptive strike? If not, then, make PLANS but do nothing. Be prepared to defend our rights to be heard but do NOT fire the first shot. It makes the message look hypocritical.

Keep Ron's own comments in mind when you want to consider what is necessary:

"The convictions of our Founding Fathers were strong enough for them to take on the British, while today the abuse of power by our own government, although far worse than that of the King, prompts little action. The patriotic citizens of colonial days brought about a major revolution with a positive change in favor of individual freedom -- a unique episode of man's history and something that ought to be duplicated again."
RON Paul 1987 FREEDOM UNDER SEIGE​

Well last time I checked a REVOLUTION wasn't waged without "rocking the boat"....and Jefferson noted that by the blood of tyrants and patriots the tree of liberty was fertilized....YOU will only attain your GOD GIVEN liberty when the Government FEARS YOU, PERIOD.

They are not afraid of sign wavings and marches...thats a fact.
 
I am not happy about this but, I agree with Fyretrohl - at least for now. We need a very solid statement first. If they don't let him in we must do something.
 
Keep Ron's own comments in mind when you want to consider what is necessary:

"The convictions of our Founding Fathers were strong enough for them to take on the British, while today the abuse of power by our own government, although far worse than that of the King, prompts little action. The patriotic citizens of colonial days brought about a major revolution with a positive change in favor of individual freedom -- a unique episode of man's history and something that ought to be duplicated again."
RON Paul 1987 FREEDOM UNDER SEIGE​

Well last time I checked a REVOLUTION wasn't waged without "rocking the boat"....and Jefferson noted that by the blood of tyrants and patriots the tree of liberty was fertilized....YOU will only attain your GOD GIVEN liberty when the Government FEARS YOU, PERIOD.

They are not afraid of sign wavings and marches...thats a fact.


I did not say 'Don't rock the boat'. Instead, I am suggesting that you don't 'Tilt at Windmills'. In other words, make sure you have something to be upset about, before you go off. Plan, be prepared. Our Founding Fathers did not just hear bad news and then go off half cocked and try to kick the British out. Instead, they sent Benjamin Franklin to try to get it resolved peacefully and through political channels. When THAT failed, they moved forward with their plans. So, be aware, plan, and be ready to act. Don't just 'react'.
 
I'm reposting this (edited for clarity) from another thread because I think it's an important issue. This isn't to say protest shouldn't be used. Just that we need to use it wisely:

What would Ron Paul advocate?

Judging by the message from the official campaign, I'd say he'd advocate letting him try to solve things diplomaticly before we send in the troops to punish offenders. I don't agree with everything Paul says, and I'm not going to obey him like a robot, but he's our man there in the situation, dealing directly with the insiders, and relaying what's going on to us. And he's asking for us to support him by giving him a chance to solve it. And it sounds like he's going to be in if we we can show some self discipline.

Last time we were excluded in Iowa, he didn't need to attack the Iowa GOP. Paul showed them up by simply holding his own event down the hall, and this method probably won him more support from Iowan voters, even among those who went to the GOP event, than protesting would have. He defeated them and at the same time made them look like the asses for excluding him when a alot more people showed up to see Paul.

It's called strategy. The Presidential campaign isn't a war that can be won by simply defeating opponents with force. It's a fight to win the people over to our cause. We need to consider not just the effects our tactics will have on opponents, but the effects they will have on the hearts and minds of the people. If those against our cause can instigate us into overracting at the wrong time, then they can defeat our movement through manipulation.

We don't want to end up winning the war and losing the peace. Look at Iraq after Saddam was defeated. Do tactics that offend the Iraqi people lead them to view the US as oppressors or liberators? Do we want people to view us as a movement that's going to force it's will on others?

Here are a few words from Paul himself, excerpted from remarks Before the US House of Representatives, October 7, 2005


We lost a war in Vietnam, and the domino theory that communism would spread throughout southeast Asia was proven wrong. Today, Vietnam accepts American investment dollars and technology. We maintain a trade relationship with Vietnam that the war never achieved............

.............We should have confidence in how well freedom works, rather than relying on blind faith in the use of military force to spread our message. Setting an example and using persuasion is always superior to military force in showing how others might live.

If the message from the official campaign, Paul's own words, and logic aren't worthy reasons to at least pause and give honest consideration to thinking and acting stategicly, I don't know what are.
 
I'm reposting this (edited for clarity) from another thread because I think it's an important issue. This isn't to say protest shouldn't be used. Just that we need to use it wisely:

What would Ron Paul advocate?

Judging by the message from the official campaign, I'd say he'd advocate letting him try to solve things diplomaticly before we send in the troops to punish offenders. I don't agree with everything Paul says, and I'm not going to obey him like a robot, but he's our man there in the situation, dealing directly with the insiders, and relaying what's going on to us. And he's asking for us to support him by giving him a chance to solve it. And it sounds like he's going to be in if we we can show some self discipline.

Last time we were excluded in Iowa, he didn't need to attack the Iowa GOP. Paul showed them up by simply holding his own event down the hall, and this method probably won him more support from Iowan voters, even among those who went to the GOP event, than protesting would have. He defeated them and at the same time made them look like the asses for excluding him when a alot more people showed up to see Paul.

It's called strategy. The Presidential campaign isn't a war that can be won by simply defeating opponents with force. It's a fight to win the people over to our cause. We need to consider not just the effects our tactics will have on opponents, but the effects they will have on the hearts and minds of the people. If those against our cause can instigate us into overracting at the wrong time, then they can defeat our movement through manipulation.

We don't want to end up winning the war and losing the peace. Look at Iraq after Saddam was defeated. Do tactics that offend the Iraqi people lead them to view the US as oppressors or liberators? Do we want people to view us as a movement that's going to force it's will on others?

Here are a few words from Paul himself, excerpted from remarks Before the US House of Representatives, October 7, 2005




If the message from the official campaign, Paul's own words, and logic aren't worthy reasons to at least pause and give honest consideration to thinking and acting stategicly, I don't know what are.


Well your illustration doesn't hold water with our situation. How exactly are the oppressed supposed to set an example of their GOD GIVEN LIBERTY????? We have lost it to the likes of these evil and corrupt men for their own gain.

You have to admit that government is "force" which is wielded by the threat of A GUN..... they are still going to expect to exact from you the money to pay for all of their illegal activities (illegal since they are not powers granted the federal under the Constitution). Everyday that we continue on this RADICAL path that the politicians have launched us on is ONLY one day closer to our losing almost everything from the coming "crash" that will assuredly envelope us.....not to mention their "theft" by the end of a GUN your hard earned fruits of your labor to PAY THEM to do it to you!!!!

I don't quite follow this absurd reasoning that we simply make alot of noise yelling at them and can only watch it happen.....the "nuts and bolts" of how the "MACHINERY" operates is that a oligarchy runs things (there is ONLY AN ILLUSION of anyone being able to take over the controls and we most certainly are NOW WITNESSING this fact by way of the "free press" which the oligarchy owns and controls to keep their thumb on the "serfs"....what we are witnessing now is only proof positive that this is how the "MACHINE" operates for the benefit of the few....there is no "set an example of freedom" to them as all that ever mattered to them is that they are able to manipulate and control and what you would like to "call" the state of things is only an adjective which is an EMPTY SHELL or "hollow slogan".
 
Isn't this issue over now that Paul has placed 5% in the latest Iowa Strategic Vision poll?
 
Not yet

Isn't this issue over now that Paul has placed 5% in the latest Iowa Strategic Vision poll?

I read somewhere that the Iowa GOP is using an average of several polls, both nationally and in Iowa. I think Ron Paul was at 4% on average, since he is still at 1 or 2% in some of the (bad) joke polls. One they use in Iowa is the American Research Group (ARG) which is notoriously inaccurate.

Hopefully, with the way things are trending, Ron Paul will be over 5% in all of them before the debate. Even if he's not, they will have a hard time justifying keeping out the fourth quarter money leader, someone who has over 80,000 donors this quarter and over 60,000 volunteers.

I also don't think they want the Ron Paul demonstration they will get if they exclude him.

But as the campaign said, hold off on contacting them for now.
 
If Ron is excluded from the Iowa debate, then we can fight back by selling the Tea Party money bomb even more. 'Fox Excludes Paul from Iowa Debate, Paul Raises $10 Million'. This is an angle we can make much of.

It's too bad the the Tea Party fund raiser cannot be held on Dec. 4, if Fox excludes Ron from the Dec. 4 Iowa debate. News of the $8 million or $10 million we raise would swamp coverage of the ho-hum debate. However, since the money bomb date is already set for Dec. 16, I don't advocate a change. But let's use the exclusion, if it comes, as a way to promote the fundraiser.
 
Iowa debate

Personally, I am glad Fox News will lose the chance to host the debate. They are blatantly on the side of Rudy and anti-RP. Their last debate was bs, so with their track record they should not be aalowed to host a debate, they do'nt know how to be fair to all candidates.

There are plenty of other good org. out there that would do a much better job.
 
fj45lvr,

Well your illustration doesn't hold water with our situation. How exactly are the oppressed supposed to set an example of their GOD GIVEN LIBERTY????? We have lost it to the likes of these evil and corrupt men for their own gain...................

I don't quite follow this absurd reasoning that we simply make alot of noise yelling at them and can only watch it happen...........

Ah...... I'm talking about trying to get Paul into the debate, and into th Whitehouse. Either you're not understanding my post, or I'm not totally understanding your response. I'm not sure which.

Please go back and read what I posted. If there's a specific point I made you disagree with, please quote it and respond. If there's more than one, quote and respond to them one at a time.

I will then be happy to respond to any points you've made.
 
Personally, I am glad Fox News will lose the chance to host the debate. They are blatantly on the side of Rudy and anti-RP. Their last debate was bs, so with their track record they should not be aalowed to host a debate, they do'nt know how to be fair to all candidates.

There are plenty of other good org. out there that would do a much better job.

Even so tonight Hannity is asking the questions he didn't at their own debate:
"Was the crowd a "Pro-Hillary" crowd?"
"Why would the crowd boo?"

"I'm accusing CNN of protecting her!"
 
It's too bad the the Tea Party fund raiser cannot be held on Dec. 4,
Why can't We get the word out to give Ron Paul a boost on December 3rd or 4th? Not that it would change my contributions. I give a little out of every paycheck. I could wait a week or two, and build it up, but dont see the point in holding anything back. But I could give a little extra on the 3rd or 4th.. Or even the 27th
 
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