Former Ron staffer: "Rand Must Denounce His Father To Win The Nomination"

[helmuth_hubener]

Dear Matt,

I would have sent this in a private message, but you leave your mailbox full. What in the heck are you trying to accomplish in making posts and being a participant on Ron Paul Forums? What are your goals here, and how may I help? Yes, yes "advancing liberty," but seriously: what? Specifically? How do you imagine that you are advancing liberty by constantly posting a barrage of incendiary, divisive, and infuriating posts? By being as unlikeable as possible? Do you somehow not realize that's what you are doing? Part of "effective politics" is not alienating everyone and making everyone hate you. You need to think about why you are here, what you are trying to accomplish. Most likely, you will determine that actually your posts here are actually often counter-productive to your life goals.

 

[Matt Collins]

You also didn't answer my very simple, fair, and relevant question: Would you renounce your father if you though it would further some agenda of yours, like liberating the country from itself? You want to ask Suzanimal these kinds of questions, but don't want to answer them yourself?

My father and I agreed on many things, some I would not want to discuss in public. We also disagreed on some things too and in some cases I wouldn't mind publicly denouncing those views as his, and not mine. How is this relevant?

 

[Matt Collins]

Dear Matt,

I would have sent this in a private message, but you leave your mailbox full. What in the heck are you trying to accomplish in making posts and being a participant on Ron Paul Forums? What are your goals here, and how may I help? Yes, yes "advancing liberty," but seriously: what? Specifically? How do you imagine that you are advancing liberty by constantly posting a barrage of incendiary, divisive, and infuriating posts? By being as unlikeable as possible? Do you somehow not realize that's what you are doing? Part of "effective politics" is not alienating everyone and making everyone hate you. You need to think about why you are here, what you are trying to accomplish. Most likely, you will determine that actually your posts here are actually often counter-productive to your life goals.

It was a worthwhile article to discuss and kick around. That's why I posted it.

And besides, if something like this ends up happening (no idea if it does or not, I hope it doesn't), at least there will now be a foreshadow of it.

 

[Matt Collins]

If I could live with a seeming endorsement of using testimony elicited from torture I could certainly live with a nuanced position on a law that really doesn't matter anymore and that I have mixed feelings about. But my point is....what's left? What do anyone want Rand to do in "denouncing Ron's views" that he hasn't already done? Should he say "Not only would I have voted for the civil rights act, but I denounce the racist views of anyone who would not?" At some point, after you have already distinguished your views from someone else, there's no way to "denounce" those views without denouncing the person. And considering that race will probably be the most problematic issue for Rand to deal with............

This is a very interesting point.... no telling how it will play out. Will they let it be and attack him on something else? Will the fact that Ron is Rand's father be a liability at all? Without polling there is no way to know how ugly this will get.

It may be a situation where they take it as far as they can and it doesn't go anywhere, so they go on to attack him on another point. On the other hand attacking Rand by tieing him to Ron may be very effective. Who knows? But if that is the case Rand may be forced to push away from his father even more.

Time will tell.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

My father and I agreed on many things, some I would not want to discuss in public. We also disagreed on some things too and in some cases I wouldn't mind publicly denouncing those views as his, and not mine. How is this relevant?

So, you would not be willing to renounce and denounce your father, even to save the country. That's good. That's admirable. That's integrity. Instead, you would say something like "we disagreed on some things" and "those views are his, and not mine."

You would be perfectly willing to make it clear that you had different views than your father, but you would still stand up for him as a good and decent human being and your father whom you love and respect. Just exactly as Tom Woods recommends Rand Paul do. And you are rightly unwilling to do what Rasmussen recommends: throw your father under the bus and renounce him as a person.

 

[TheTexan]

This is a very interesting point.... no telling how it will play out. Will they let it be and attack him on something else? Will the fact that Ron is Rand's father be a liability at all? Without polling there is no way to know how ugly this will get.

I like Rand on some things but his father is a nutcase. Bringing the troops home? Eliminating the department of *education* ??

Those aren't necessarily Rand's views, but as they say, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

 

[fr33]

I like Rand on some things but his father is a nutcase. Bringing the troops home? Eliminating the department of *education* ??

Those aren't necessarily Rand's views, but as they say, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

bxm really gets why this is next to impossible.The media is already picking Romney this time long before the last time they picked Romney. The inevitable candididate is what republicans vote for. They are dumb enough to call Obama a Kenyan. They are dumb enough to support Romney again when they are told to.

 

[jjdoyle]

bxm really gets why this is next to impossible.The media is already picking Romney this time long before the last time they picked Romney. The inevitable candididate is what republicans vote for. They are dumb enough to call Obama a Kenyan. They are dumb enough to support Romney again when they are told to.

Sounds like a defeatist's attitude. We are making great progress, as can be evidenced in the recent Value Voters Summit straw poll results. We have WIDE appeal among the GOP base.

 

[fr33]

Sounds like a defeatist's attitude. We are making great progress, as can be evidenced in the recent Value Voters Summit straw poll results. We have WIDE appeal among the GOP base.

You forgot your sarcasm tag.

Or not. Maybe tomorrow they will audit and then end the federal reserve. Then next week the US will stop being the most war-loving nation in the world.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I like Rand on some things but his father is a nutcase. Bringing the troops home? Eliminating the department of *education* ??

Those aren't necessarily Rand's views, but as they say, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

Eliminating the Department of education should be a top priority. American education was #1 on the planet before we had a Department of education, and the moment we created such a department it began to plummet until now we are something like 25th in the world and our descent is accelerating. The best possible thing we could do to improve public education in the United States, is to eliminate the federal Department of Education.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

I hope Rand does and says whatever maximizes his chances of winning.

I don't care if that means denouncing his father and smoking a Constitution cigar.

It's just a show. The result is all that matters.

That said, I don't expect any radical departure from the space he's already carved out for himself. The people who think "Rand's a kook like his father" will not be dissuaded by any denunciation. Rand's best chance at winning them over is to just continue looking sober.

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

I hope Rand does and says whatever maximizes his chances of winning.

I don't care if that means denouncing his father and smoking a Constitution cigar.

It's just a show. The result is all that matters.

That said, I don't expect any radical departure from the space he's already carved out for himself. The people who think "Rand's a kook like his father" will not be dissuaded by any denunciation. Rand's best chance at winning them over is to just continue looking sober.

I agree. Politics is just a game and you have to play within the parameters of the game. I think Rand is a chip off the ole' block and if he has to use some "deception" to get in so be it. Sun Tsu stated that deception is a part of "war" and as far as I'm concerned we are in a war for liberty every day...

 

[jjdoyle]

I agree. Politics is just a game and you have to play within the parameters of the game. I think Rand is a chip off the ole' block and if he has to use some "deception" to get in so be it. Sun Tsu stated that deception is a part of "war" and as far as I'm concerned we are in a war for liberty every day...

Well, isn't saying, "if he has to use some 'deception' to get in", assuming TPTB are ignorant of this? They are just so stupid as to allow someone deceiving them, get near a position of power that could slow things down?

So, Rand is either trying to deceive us, or trying to deceive them?

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

Well, isn't saying, "if he has to use some 'deception' to get in", assuming TPTB are ignorant of this? They are just so stupid as to allow someone deceiving them, get near a position of power that could slow things down?

So, Rand is either trying to deceive us, or trying to deceive them?

I have no doubt that TPTB know when deception is being used. They are masters of it. It's the sheeple at large that need to be "fooled" into supporting liberty just like now they are "fooled" into supporting slavery...

 

[jjdoyle]

I have no doubt that TPTB know when deception is being used. They are masters of it. It's the sheeple at large that need to be "fooled" into supporting liberty just like now they are "fooled" into supporting slavery...

The majority of the sheeple do as instructed though and cannot actually THINK for themselves, and TPTB own the media. And the GOP and TPTB will use any message to further their own goals, even if their goals are opposite of what is publicly said, and deepen their own pockets.