For those annoying people who say libertarian societies are impractical and utopian...

[onlyrp]

My vast collection of burned CD's says otherwise!

I've had a lot of my material needs met by the Internet, and eventually, the technology may come to a point where you can "download" a ham & cheese sandwich. As long as the government stays the hell out of it, we have no idea what this technology can bring into our lives with a few more years of research and development.

let me know when you can download ham, cheese and a car.

 

[Pericles]

The government may have funded ARPANET but the hardware came from IBM, DEC, and other private sector players who did the real inventing.

In one sense the argument for the model being more libertarian is in the days when the NET really was a network of networks, rather than some big telcos forming the backbone. Even into the 1990s, when you hooked a network into the Internet, part of the agreement was to pass packets for other users. Your network helped carry internet traffic, not just your traffic to and from the NET as today.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

But, but, but... the internet was created by the government!

So there!

I've already dispelled this in another thread, but if people still want to believe this, more power to them and their delusion!

 

[heavenlyboy34]

let me know when you can download ham, cheese and a car.

It's already possible to order pizza, etc. Downloadable foodstuffs may be in the future.

 

[FreeTraveler]

let me know when you can download ham, cheese and a car.

I've mostly been ignoring you because it's obvious you haven't read the full essay, yet feel fully qualified to diss something you know next to nothing about.

I bought my last car through the Internet, and saved thousands over what I would have paid some know-nothing salesrep with a fast tongue if I'd walked in unaware of the information I gained through the free exchange available on the Internet. I've also bought ham and cheese and pretty much everything else over the Internet -- including some things that you generally can't buy where I live unless you have acess to the gray market provided by the Internet... which is also a profoundly libertarian concept.

Not to mention that the article is about a libertarian SOCIETY not a libertarian BUSINESS MODEL.

 

[liberty2897]

The most important aspects of the "Internet" that display libertarian philosophies are embodied in TCP

You can read the details here:
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc793.txt

Also, one of the more important people in my opinion was Jon Postel. RIP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Postel

His quote that should be remembered widely:

Postel's Law (or Postel's Robustness Principle)
Postel's Law: "be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others" (often reworded as "be conservative in what you send, liberal in what you accept").

This is why engineers do NOT support SOPA/PIPA/OPEN or anything like this. It BREAKS the Internet from the foundation up.

 

[onlyrp]

It's already possible to order pizza, etc. Downloadable foodstuffs may be in the future.

order is at most a faster communication, I was speaking of letting matter pass through your internet connection , either wire or wirelessly. Let me know when that happens

 

[onlyrp]

I've mostly been ignoring you because it's obvious you haven't read the full essay, yet feel fully qualified to diss something you know next to nothing about.

I bought my last car through the Internet, and saved thousands over what I would have paid some know-nothing salesrep with a fast tongue if I'd walked in unaware of the information I gained through the free exchange available on the Internet. I've also bought ham and cheese and pretty much everything else over the Internet -- including some things that you generally can't buy where I live unless you have acess to the gray market provided by the Internet... which is also a profoundly libertarian concept.

Not to mention that the article is about a libertarian SOCIETY not a libertarian BUSINESS MODEL.

buying a car through the internet is nothing I didn't acknowledge, which was sped up communication. It has not replaced your necessary means of delivery, which is actually moving the vehicle to your house, rather than let the car come through your modem or wireless signal.

So again, let me know when the internet can deliver your car to you without anybody leaving their house. No delivery man or vehicles used either.

 

[Pericles]

The most important aspects of the "Internet" that display libertarian philosophies are embodied in TCP

You can read the details here:
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc793.txt

Also, one of the more important people in my opinion was Jon Postel. RIP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Postel

His quote that should be remembered widely:

Postel's Law (or Postel's Robustness Principle)
Postel's Law: "be conservative in what you do, be liberal in what you accept from others" (often reworded as "be conservative in what you send, liberal in what you accept").

This is why engineers do NOT support SOPA/PIPA/OPEN or anything like this. It BREAKS the Internet from the foundation up.

And that was the right way to have ARPANET perform its function. SMTP (eMail) is a perfect analogy of where we are. The whole design of ARPANET was that there were divers systems that it was desired that they could communicate with each other. The design was therefore protocol and standards specific, rather than an equipment design. Because the design was to enable communication, the sending of SMTP email was easy - no verification or security check. The goal was to make transmission as easy as possible. The receiving machine did the verification of this email is one I should handle, or pass on to another message relay. This worked well when it was expensive to connect to the NET because the expense helped to keep traffic to the important / worthwhile.

The lower cost of connectivity, made more commercial use of the NET possible, but also broke many of the fundamental premises in the engineering realm. Now, anybody could send massive amounts of SMTP traffic, and do. Thus, ISPs have little incentive to stop spam senders as long as they pay their bills, and the receiver is tasked with the problem of sorting out the good from the bad.

Which pretty well sums up the issues relating to a libertarian society: The responsible exercise of liberty works, irresponsible use imposes a cost on the other members of society, and voluntary mechanisms of dealing with the irresponsible have not shown themselves effective at discouraging that irresponsibility.

 

[RickBelmont]

The internet is not a society, that is a terrible analogy.

Libertarianism IS a utopian idea. To be honest there really isn't such a thing as Libertarianism, it is actually anarchy.

Constitutionalism is the rule of law, Libertarianism is cosmopolitan law, Democracy is authoritarian collectivism.

The most free society is a constitutional moderate one.

When I read the title I instantly thought: "What libertarian society?"

 

[mediahasyou]

The most free society is a constitutional moderate one.

I don't know what you mean by this, but USA is a constitutional society, which has failed in protecting freedom.

 

[Philhelm]

I hear a lot of the libertarian "utopia" talk from liberals who are pissed about Ayn Rand writing her books about a dystopian socialist society. From what I have gathered, it seems like a lot of projection from people who believe that the state can create heaven on earth.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense. We're not the ones who want to create a "utopia." Perplexing.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I hear a lot of the libertarian "utopia" talk from liberals who are pissed about Ayn Rand writing her books about a dystopian socialist society. From what I have gathered, it seems like a lot of projection from people who believe that the state can create heaven on earth.

Ironically, Rand's dystopian novels ("Anthem" especially) are lifted from Soviet dystopian novels-especially "We" (Мы) by Zamyatin.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

The internet is not a society, that is a terrible analogy.

Libertarianism IS a utopian idea. To be honest there really isn't such a thing as Libertarianism, it is actually anarchy.

Constitutionalism is the rule of law, Libertarianism is cosmopolitan law, Democracy is authoritarian collectivism.

The most free society is a constitutional moderate one.

When I read the title I instantly thought: "What libertarian society?"

"Pure" constitutionalism is more utopian than almost all strains of libertarianism. (hence its 200+ years of failure) You have much to learn about libertarianism in general, and free societies.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

In regards to the OP: the internet/society analogy is a good and perfectly valid one.
[h=2]so·ci·e·ty[/h]   [suh-sahy-i-tee] Show IPA noun, plural -ties, adjectivenoun1.an organized group of persons associated together forreligious, benevolent, cultural, scientific, political, patriotic,or other purposes.

2.a body of individuals living as members of a community;community.

3.the body of human beings generally, associated or viewed asmembers of a community: the evolution of human society.

4.a highly structured system of human organization for large-scale community living that normally furnishes protection,continuity, security, and a national identity for its members:American society.

5.such a system characterized by its dominant economic classor form: middle-class society; industrial society.

 

[NidStyles]

buying a car through the internet is nothing I didn't acknowledge, which was sped up communication. It has not replaced your necessary means of delivery, which is actually moving the vehicle to your house, rather than let the car come through your modem or wireless signal.

So again, let me know when the internet can deliver your car to you without anybody leaving their house. No delivery man or vehicles used either.

Let me know when you can write books and have them published in your Pizza shop.

 

[onlyrp]

Let me know when you can write books and have them published in your Pizza shop.

I'm not the one who claims the Pizza shop is any replacement for anything

 

[onlyrp]

"Pure" constitutionalism is more utopian than almost all strains of libertarianism. (hence its 200+ years of failure) You have much to learn about libertarianism in general, and free societies.

what was a better place to live while this one has 200 years of failing? may I ask?