For all - Turn the other cheek for Ron Paul

[skeet]

Acting like sheep will certianly not influence the sheep and acting like a wolf will certainly scare them away.

We had a sign waving. A woman walked up, identified herself as a school teacher, and asked for more information. I spoke with her briefly, and as it turned out she was already sold on RP, but wanted to meet some of the grassroots folks - she said she was going to join our group. When one of our more intense followers saw her at the tent, he rushed over and began to preach CFR, Gold Standard, NAU, etc. all in a span of 1 min. Admittedly he seemed a bit crazy. She gave him the classic nervous smile & left. I do believe she will still support Ron Paul, but we never saw her again.

In contrast, I met a guy, gave him a slim jim, and asked him to "google RP" etc. He looked me over & gave me a "yeah right" look and kept walking. ( I am a 40 something, clean cut, church going, Republican - with the manners to go with it) I guess the guy thought I wanted him to attend my church- idunno. Anyway, one of our resident truthers caught him further down - talked conspiracy 101 (I cringed), yet the dude is now on board.

We must wake up to the reality that we are all different, with lifestyles, beliefs, and forms of expression. Yet we do have things in common.. the ideas of Peace, Prosperity, and Freedom as expressed through our candidate, and in what I believe Americans (collectively) are.

Each an every one of us have been influenced and/or affected by the media and our government to direct our thoughts and behavior. They want us to think and act alike so we can be controlled and processed. (the very nature of advertising and propaganda)

Our strength within this movement is with our diversity. Lets use it to our advantage. Lets not be predictable. In other words let people be who they are, not what we want them to be. As strange as it sounds - it has worked so far.

Yes we will recieve some blowback, yes some people are just stupid, but in the end - if a person is stupid, would they comply with your plea to behave? No. Those who would - are already.

Just my two cents

 

[courtney]

So like, this door to door salesmen comes knocking on my door. I answer, politely greet him, and then listen to his sales pitch.

After listening to him for 5, 10 minutes, I explain that I'm not interested at the moment, but I'll be glad to look over his product brochure later.

However, by this time, his impatience with me has grown thin. "Fuck-off then! I don't need your stinking money, Goddamned it!!! You just wait -- you'll figure out you're wrong one of these days, and guess what: I AINT GONNA BE AROUND, BITCH!!!!!"

Or, the guy could have merely offered his brochure and business card, and thanked me for my time.

I don't think anyone needs to be sociologist to realize that the second response would be much more productive than the first. One of the things that I've learned over the years is that folks don't like to be bullied into buying anything, and that includes ideas. From my experience, it's the metaphorical "planting of seeds" that's more productive.

It's much more productive to plant the seed, and then sit back and watch these folks discover for themselves what it is one is attempting to pimp.

For instance, many folks wonder why Glenn Beck has taken a sort of hostile attitude toward the movement. Well, I'm sure the first time he expressed skepticism about especially Paul's foreign policy agenda, Beck was probably swamped with Hate Mail.

Well, I'll tell you what I do when swamped with Hate Mail, I Hate Back -- don't most of us? It's human nature. Unfortunately, the situation tends to degrade to the point where the two sides talk over one another -- despite the fact that the two sides, especially in the Beck case, Agree more than they disagree! It's unfortunate really....

******************

And lastly, I find it ironic that some folks here take extreme issue with folks attempting to insert a level of sanity into some of these Internet discussions, including overall Internet behavior. Folks here don't want to be "told what to do," and moreover, they claim that we're "attempting to censure them," or else "run them off," or else "intimidate them," when that's simply not the case.

Yet, when somebody like Beck opens his big mouth and says something these folks don't like, then the first thing they do is try to get him fired, or else taken off the air by targetting his sponsors! Interesting!

 

[torchbearer]

Right, I'm pointing out a bad trend.
No one wants to disagree with you because they are intimidated. People respond to me, because they are not. Get it?
You are using neocon tools without even realizing it (or maybe you do). Doesn't that power feel good? Yeh, I bet it does.

Keep on. its working. the people who have put all these events together are now backing out because of disgust. If only you knew the discussions had in private.

You are so focused on "getting votes" you forgot what its all for.... you are the one acting as a tyrant. I am simply pointing it out.

Those people who aren't brave enough can simply keep PMing me thanks for saying the things they aren't brave enough to say...

Remember, you will never be free until you are no longer afraid... and if you start buying into the whole "we have to do whatever it takes to get votes" mantra, you are going to become the thing you claim to protest... and in fact, you are already acting like them.

 

[foofighter20x]

This thread is just a smaller part of a bigger trend. Despite the validity of approaching people civilly.. that is not what i'm disagreeing with...

1. I'm not doing this out of supposed fears or from what some think is a lack of political experience. It's somthing I advocate more out of simple courtesy, professionalism, and all the leadership traning and mentoring I've received.

2. Being assholes to potential supporters will generate negative media, guaranteed. Prove me wrong.

3. Acting civilly will not generate solely postive media, but it never hurts to not hand to our detractors the ammo they would use against us. How some people can't or refuse the see the common sense in that boggles my mind.

4. I agree with your point that Dr Paul has nothing to apologize for, but that's just not goint to cut it. This is a society where guilt by association is enough for any person to change their mind, no matter how unfounded the guilt is. As that old saw goes: "A man is judged by the company he keeps." To them, we're his company.

5. Again, no one ever said any behavior was required of any one. No ultimatums were laid down, as you seem to imply. It was simply asked that we all be reasonable in our approach. Apparently for some that was asking too much.

 

[courtney]

Right, I'm pointing out a bad trend.
No one wants to disagree with you because they are intimidated. People respond to me, because they are not. Get it?
You are using neocon tools without even realizing it (or maybe you do). Doesn't that power feel good? Yeh, I bet it does.

Keep on. its working. the people who have put all these events together are now backing out because of disgust. If only you knew the discussions had in private.

You are so focused on "getting votes" you forgot what its all for.... you are the one acting as a tyrant. I am simply pointing it out.

Those people who aren't brave enough can simply keep PMing me thanks for saying the things they aren't brave enough to say...

Remember, you will never be free until you are no longer afraid... and if you start buying into the whole "we have to do whatever it takes to get votes" mantra, you are going to become the thing you claim to protest... and in fact, you are already acting like them.

Not sure if this was directed at me or not. However, I will say this about the "intimidation" factor. Last night on the Glenn Beck thread, it wasn't me doing the intimidating at all! I could just barely keep up with reponding to those who were taking me to task! But hey, more power to them.

However, being new here and having less than 20 posts at the time (well, not that it's much higher now ), it certainly seemed much easier for me to just take my butt chewing, and just leave. But i don't give up that easily, so I'm still here for the time being.

Lastly, it is certainly not my desire to suck the life out of this movement. As the movement grows, we've got to appeal to more folks, it's that simple. We've got to broaden the tent, or we lose.

I'll say again, it was the actions and dedication of most of you folks here that convinced me to buy into the campaign. Now I'm here -- just as you people desired. Now that I'm here, I ask that you listen to what I have to add to the discussion. That's all.

 

[torchbearer]

1. I'm not doing this out of supposed fears or from what some think is a lack of political experience. It's somthing I advocate more out of simple courtesy, professionalism, and all the leadership traning and mentoring I've received.

2. Being assholes to potential supporters will generate negative media, guaranteed. Prove me wrong.

3. Acting civilly will not generate solely postive media, but it never hurts to not hand to our detractors the ammo they would use against us. How some people can't or refuse the see the common sense in that boggles my mind.

4. I agree with your point that Dr Paul has nothing to apologize for, but that's just not goint to cut it. This is a society where guilt by association is enough for any person to change their mind, no matter how unfounded the guilt is. As that old saw goes: "A man is judged by the company he keeps." To them, we're his company.

5. Again, no one ever said any behavior was required of any one. No ultimatums were laid down, as you seem to imply. It was simply asked that we all be reasonable in our approach. Apparently for some that was asking too much.

Did i say you were doing this out of fear? Perhaps you misunderstood me or I mistyped something...
Those that are afraid are some of the newer people i've seen on the forums... they act more like my mother who is the typical non-poitical everyday jane. When they first step into the political world.. it overwhelms them in a sense that they don't understand that most people are smiling as they stab you and love playing mind games.... the inexperience compounded by the group supported hysteria from fellow newbies start a long progress trend towards changing everything to a point that their fear is eased.
Some people in this thread that know better... are using this fear to manipulate... despite what the thread title is...
In particular it started with the Glenn beck threads, all 100 of them.. then on to the ADL threads and the JDL threads... and then on the bogus colorado threads... and on the "i'm not supporting ron paul anymore" threads... and so on.
This was never about you. You just so happen to agree with the message on this thread... but it wasn't the thread message i was attacking.. it was this overall trend to force prudence on everyone for everything that is causing an environment of oppression and fear.

dude, people pm me to thank me for saying things, yet they don't say them themselves. they are afraid to... that isn't healthy at all.

I'm about at the end of my rope with this crap... we are starting to develop our grassroots stuff outside of this forum, because the amount of trollers, instigators, and saboteurs are running rampant... and you need to watch out for dangerous trends some our smarter enemies are trying to instigate.

Watch- I'm not talking about anyone in specific... but a guilty party would respond because they know i'm talking about them.

 

[torchbearer]

Not sure if this was directed at me or not. However, I will say this about the "intimidation" factor. Last night on the Glenn Beck thread, it wasn't me doing the intimidating at all! I could just barely keep up with reponding to those who were taking me to task! But hey, more power to them.

However, being new here and having less than 20 posts at the time (well, not that it's much higher now ), it certainly seemed much easier for me to just take my butt chewing, and just leave. But i don't give up that easily, so I'm still here for the time being.

Lastly, it is certainly not my desire to suck the life out of this movement. As the movement grows, we've got to appeal to more folks, it's that simple. We've got to broaden the tent, or we lose.

I'll say again, it was the actions and dedication of most of you folks here that convinced to buy into the campaign. Now I'm here -- just as you people desired. Now that I'm here, I ask that you listen to what I have to add to the discussion. That's all.

Oh, i wasn't addressing you.

 

[torchbearer]

Courtney, if there is ever a concern or thought you want to share... you are more than welcomed to PM me. I will be able to get you ideas to people who can make them happen.
I hope you are never afraid to speak you mind, and I'm glad you joined us.

 

[me3]

Right, I'm pointing out a bad trend.
No one wants to disagree with you because they are intimidated. People respond to me, because they are not. Get it?

That's an assumption. It would be just as simple to assume that people are not disagreeing because they agree.

You are using neocon tools without even realizing it (or maybe you do). Doesn't that power feel good? Yeh, I bet it does.

Collectivism and insults again.

Keep on. its working. the people who have put all these events together are now backing out because of disgust. If only you knew the discussions had in private.

They are backing out on the freedom campaign because people are promoting civility and diplomacy?

You are so focused on "getting votes" you forgot what its all for.... you are the one acting as a tyrant. I am simply pointing it out.

You can focus all you want on what it is for, but without votes, it will be for nothing. It's a time for action. Positive action that influences the ballot box.

Remember, you will never be free until you are no longer afraid... and if you start buying into the whole "we have to do whatever it takes to get votes" mantra, you are going to become the thing you claim to protest... and in fact, you are already acting like them.

I'm kinda getting tired with the constant implication that I am somehow afraid. It's condescending.

Contrary to your statements that we're behaving like Neocons, perhaps you should look at how you talk down to others, promote harassment, and diminish anyone who disagrees with you as weak.

 

[ACJohn]

Flies Honey

End of story

 

[libertygrl]

No.. I mean to suggest that at 50 years of age I don't need no goddamned lectures from nobody on how to act. I didn't cotten to being told how to act at five by a big drill sargeant with a web belt. This type of drooldonkey advice assumes that those who do not adhere to the positions laid forth by THAT INDIVIDUAL is skewing the campaign and making them look bad. There ain't a snowballs chance in hell that I made the campaign look bad. In fact i am the reason we have a near monolithic RP name recognititon around here. Ask the meetup 294 leaders. They know who I am and how I act.

This should not have been a sticky. It is another effing lecture for kindergarteners. When are we going to get respect as grown adults is what this comes down to to me. Stop treating us like children and assuming we need lectures on how to behave like we are some goddamned savages in loincloths all fired up on liquor. Jeesh.

Randy

Why are you taking this so personally? Sounds like you're doing a great job for the cause, but you've got to lighten up. You sound like an awfully angry person. Unfortunately, we have to walk on egg shells because the other side is just waiting to find ammunition against Ron Paul. They've already made false accusations against us supporters. What's the big deal about trying to use some restraint? It's just good strategy and makes common sense.

I went through this as an anti-illegal immigration activist. The illegals have enormous support groups who are always ready to pounce on anything that they could twist and distort as being racist and we were very conscience of it. Yet, when we discussed strategy like the one suggested by Rockwell, some guy reacted the same as you. Guess there's always one in every group!

The Minutemen operate under this same philosophy of awareness. Rockwell is on our side. There are a lot of kids involved with the campaign that can be a little overzealous in their support sometimes. Ever think that perhaps his message was directed more toward them? Chill out dude. Don't take it so personally!

 

[The Plan]

Everybody here can absolutely relate to being really pissed off at the system we have here in government. Everybody here is a fan of liberty and that includes free speech of all kinds. However this fight is of such dire importance that we have to all pay close attention to the details. We all have a chance to throw a giant monkeywrench into the gears of a system that has been raping the people of their liberty and their prosperity and we all know there is only one man that can fix it at this moment in time.
These people that are in power right now are masters of language and they will point out any weakness they see and twist the meaning of everything to their advantage. Most of them are lawyers and that profession makes a living on their grasp of language. I know the people we have working for this campaign are allot smarter then these people will ever know and i know everybody can find a way to get their point across in ways that can not be twisted by the media. I love you all to death but i already see that we have made ourselves vounerable with some of the terms that have been used. Calling a donation a "Money Bomb" is a bad idea, we already see what Glenn Beck has done with that and relating the first donation to Guy Faux was a mistake as well for this same reason.
We all need to watch what we say a bit more carefully in the future because if we don't then we could become a liability to Ron. These people do not understand irony because if they did they would definitly attack the patriot act. We all have been watching this close enough to understand the game by now. We need to be smart about this and choose our words carefully. We have to beat them at their own game. These people are way too ruthless to be expected to play fair. We are not fighting a group of people anymore with this campaign, we are fighting a finely tuned machine. You've all seen them at work, we need to turn the tables and fight them with our minds. The situation is too dire and the consequences are too great is we don't get smart as a group.

 

[Doc Dewey]

Perhaps a example of irrational thought process would bring a little clarity to this discussion.
Do we want to come across to viewers like these fine supporters of Rudy?

http://www.rudygiulianiforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=f81a202e972133a4bef16650bc276f19&topic=18.0

 

[dircha]

Everybody here can absolutely relate to being really pissed off at the system we have here in government. Everybody here is a fan of liberty and that includes free speech of all kinds. However this fight is of such dire importance that we have to all pay close attention to the details. We all have a chance to throw a giant monkeywrench into the gears of a system that has been raping the people of their liberty and their prosperity and we all know there is only one man that can fix it at this moment in time.
These people that are in power right now are masters of language and they will point out any weakness they see and twist the meaning of everything to their advantage. Most of them are lawyers and that profession makes a living on their grasp of language. I know the people we have working for this campaign are allot smarter then these people will ever know and i know everybody can find a way to get their point across in ways that can not be twisted by the media. I love you all to death but i already see that we have made ourselves vounerable with some of the terms that have been used. Calling a donation a "Money Bomb" is a bad idea, we already see what Glenn Beck has done with that and relating the first donation to Guy Faux was a mistake as well for this same reason.
We all need to watch what we say a bit more carefully in the future because if we don't then we could become a liability to Ron. These people do not understand irony because if they did they would definitly attack the patriot act. We all have been watching this close enough to understand the game by now. We need to be smart about this and choose our words carefully. We have to beat them at their own game. These people are way too ruthless to be expected to play fair. We are not fighting a group of people anymore with this campaign, we are fighting a finely tuned machine. You've all seen them at work, we need to turn the tables and fight them with our minds. The situation is too dire and the consequences are too great is we don't get smart as a group.

Welcome aboard Mr. The Plan!

Excellent first post.

 

[The Plan]

Thank you dircha

I plan on making many more.

 

[JerzieJennie]

No.. I mean to suggest that at 50 years of age I don't need no goddamned lectures from nobody on how to act. Ask the meetup 294 leaders. They know who I am and how I act.

It is another effing lecture for kindergarteners. When are we going to get respect as grown adults is what this comes down to to me. Stop treating us like children and assuming we need lectures on how to behave like we are some goddamned savages in loincloths all fired up on liquor. Jeesh.

Randy

If you act mature and like an adult, and are polite to people, and represent Dr Paul well, then the original article was not speaking to you

However, some other people legitimately do need a reminder that their conduct can greatly influence someone's first impression of Dr. Paul, and could turn interest away from a great man. Attracting people, rather than scaring them away, we can all agree is what has to be done. Big picture = getting Ron Paul recognized as a winning candidate with winning ideas. Our own personal vandettas are fine after we get him elected First things first - the man needs to be put into office, and then we can be selfish about our own personal messages

Play nice, all-ages. What would Ron Paul Do?

Also - keep the ideas that you share while handing out a Ron Paul flier to what HIS issues are. Remember we have a diverse group of people that believe a lot of different thoughts, and we should only represent him for his own thoughts, not entangle our separate agendas or beliefs.

 

[Duckman]

I'm glad most people on here realize we can't act any way we want to and expect to get people to listen to us.

That's all anyone is really saying, I think. We are noy trying to control your mind or what you think. At least I am not, and I would not. I'm even pretty OK with mingling other messages with Paul if Paul is 100% behind those messages. We are merely asking that for the sake of basic civility that we need to behave in a way that does not turn off average Republican voters, who we need in order to win.

I'm sorry for anyone who feels this is an affront to their basic rights. If you skin is that thin I don't know how you will get through life. These are the sorts of reasons why some people say that libertarians can't win, because they will always fight themselves and fight organization.

 

[ronpaul4pres]

Great thread, and thanks for the sticky.

You've always had my support for this important subject as evidenced by my signature!

 

[aroberso]

HELP PLEASE:

Is there a quicker way to IGNORE a member than to first view their profile page?

I respect people's right to say what they want, but I'm trying to wade through some of the noise that isn't helpful to me.

Also, is there any chance for content-based or keyword filters?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

 

[foofighter20x]

Unfortunately not, but I'll see if Admin can work on it.