First They Came for the Anti-Vaxxers

[donnay]

Vaccines will be the political tool for total medical tyranny and control over lives.

 

[ARealConservative]

The truth will set you FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

your truth is dishonest propganda.

blow up the mortality graph between 1950 and today. anybody that uses the graph you used is either ignorant, or a liar

 

[donnay]

your truth is dishonest propganda.

blow up the mortality graph between 1950 and today. anybody that uses the graph you used is either ignorant, or a liar

Clean water, nutritional foods, good hygiene and sanitation has made much of the difference, not vaccines.


Disease decline before introduction of immunisation

Measles deaths 1901 to vaccination

Vaccines: Are they really Safe and Effective?

Vaccines Did Not Save Us – 2 Centuries Of Official Statistics

 

[Deborah K]

An appeal to authority argument coupled with ad hominems does not negate that there is no science or facts behind the anti-vaccine movement.

Tell that to these doctors:

Dr. Suzanne Humphries,
Dr. Robert Sears,
Dr. Kenneth Stoller,
Dr. Robert Rowen,
Dr. Janet Levatin,
Dr. Stephanie Cave,
Dr. Sherri Tenpenny,
Dr. Meryl Nass,
Dr. Jay Gordon,
Dr. Jane Orient

and these doctors and scientists:

Nicola Antonucci, MD Isaac Golden, ND Amber Passini, MD, David Ayoub, MD Gary Goldman, PhD Ronald Peters, MD, MPH,
Nancy Turner Banks, MD Garry Gordon, MD, DO, MD(H) Jean Pilette, MD, Timur Baruti, MD Doug Graham, DC Pat Rattigan, ND,
Danny Beard, DC Boyd Haley, PhD Zoltan Rona, MD, MSc, Françoise Berthoud, MD Gayl Hamilton, MD Chaim Rosenthal, MD,
Russell Blaylock, MD Linda Hegstrand, MD, PhD Robert Rowen, MD, Fred Bloem, MD James Howenstine, MD Máximo Sandín, PhD,
Laura Bridgman, FNP, ND Suzanne Humphries, MD Len Saputo, MD,Kelly Brogan, MD Belén Igual Diaz, MD Michael Schachter, MD
Sarah Buckley, MD Philip Incao, MD Viera Scheibner, PhD, Rashid Buttar, DO Joyce Johnson, ND Penelope Shar, MD
Harold Buttram, MD A. Majid Katme, MBBCh, DPM Bruce Shelton, MD, MD(H),Lisa Cantrell, RN Tedd Koren, DC Debbi Silverman, MD
Lua Català Ferrer, MD Alexander Kotok, MD, PhD Kenneth “KP” Stoller, MD,Jennifer Craig, PhD, BSN, MA Eneko Landaburu,
MD Terri Su, MD, Robert Davidson, MD, PhD Luc Lemaire, DC Didier Tarte, MD, Ana de Leo, MD Janet Levatin,
MD Leigh Ann Tatnall, RN, Carlos de Quero Kops, MD Thomas Levy, MD, JD Adiel Tel-Oren, MD, DC, Carolyn Dean, MD,ND,
Stephen L’Hommedieu, DC Sherri Tenpenny, DO, Mayer Eisenstein, MD, JD, MPH Paul Maher, MD, MPH Renee Tocco, DC
Todd M. Elsner, DC Andrew Maniotis, PhD Demetra Vagias, MD, ND,Jorge Esteves, MD Steve Marini, PhD, DC Franco Verzella, MD
Edward “Ted” Fogarty, MD Juan Manuel Martínez Méndez, MD Julian Whitaker, MD,Jack Forbush, DO Sue McIntosh, MD
Ronald Whitmont, MD, Milani Gabriele, CRNA, RN Richard Moskowitz, MD Betty Wood, MD
Sheila Gibson, MD, BSc Sheri Nakken, RN, MA Eduardo Ángel Yahbes, MD
Mike Godfrey, MBBS Christiane Northrup, MD

Source: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/02/13/vaccines-get-the-full-story/

And:

Shizuo Akira, MD, PhD

David Amaral, PhD, MIND Institute, UC-Davis

François-Jérôme Authier, Professor, PhD

David Ayoub, MD, Radiologist

Anne-Catherine Bachoud-Levia, PhD

Toni Bark, MD

David S. Baskin, PhD

Denis Bedoret, PhD

Russell Blaylock, MD, CCN, former clinical assistant professor of neurosurgery at the University of Mississippi Medical Center in Jackson, MS. and is currently a visiting professor of biology at Belhaven University, Jackson, MI

Mary Ann Block, DO

T. Bobrowicz, PhD

Kenneth Bock, MD

Marie-Françoise Boissea, PhD

Subbarao Bondada, PhD

Jeff Bradstreet, MD

Pierre Brugierese, PhD

Julie Buckley, MD

Thomas Burbacher, MD

Fabrice Bureau, PhD

Rashid Buttar, DO, FAAPM, FACAM, FAAIM

Stephanie F. Cave, MS, MD, FAAFP

E. Cernichiari, PhD

Pierre Cesaroa, PhD

Lakshman Chelvarajan

T. Chen, PhD

Xavier Chevalierf, PhD

Shiv Chopra, MSc, PhD

Stephanie Christner, DO

T. Clarkson, PhD

John Barthelow Classen, MD

Cevayir Coban, PhD

Maryline Couettea

Andy Cutler, PhD (research chemist)

Jeffrey Dach, MD

Josep Dalmau, MD, PhD

Vicky DeBold, PhD, RN

Jamie Deckoff-Jones, MD

Christophe J Desmet, PhD

Mary Catherine DeSoto, PhD

Richard Deth, PhD

J.G. Dórea, PhD

Peter Doshi, PhD Johns Hopkins School of Medicine

M. Duszczyk, PhD

Steven Edelson, MD, Director of the Autism Research Institute in San Diego

(The late) Mayer Eisenstein, MD

(The late) Frank Engley Jr. PhD

Håkan Eriksson, PhD

Christopher Exley, PhD

Carl Feinstein, MD

Peter Fletcher, PhD, former Chief Scientific Officer, at the UK Department of Health

Lisa Freund, PhD

Paula A. Garay, PhD

Robert F. Garry, PhD

Thomas V. Getchell, PhD

Romain K. Gherardi, Professor, head of the department of Histology, Henri Mondor hospital, Paris, Neuropathologic and Clinical activities at the Neuromuscular Disease Reference Center, and is coordinator of the Department of Neurosciences INSERM

Beatrice Golomb, PhD, MD

Jay Gordon, MD

K.S. Grant, PhD

John Green, MD

Boyd Haley, PhD

Richard Halvorsen, MD

Diane Harper, MD, MPH, MS

(The late) Bernadine Healy, MD

Martha Herbert, MD, PhD, Professor of neurology at Harvard Medical

Laura Hewitson, PhD

Robert T. Hitlan, PhD

Amy Holmes, MD

Brian Hooker, PhD

Mady Hornig, PhD

Suzanne Humphries, MD

Mark Hyman, MD

Philip Incao, MD

Ken J Ishii, PhD

Emmanuel Ittie, PhD

Dr. Jill James, PhD

Bryan Jepson, MD

Archie Kalokerinos, MD

Jerry Kartzinel, MD

Matthew S. Kayser, MD

Marcel Kinsbourne, PhD

Kouji Kobiyama, PhD

Sheldon B. Korones, MD

Arthur Krigsman, MD

Pierre Lekeux, PhD

A. Lerner, PhD

N. Liberato, PhD

S.X. Lin, PhD

Andrew D. Livingston, PhD

Yushu Liu, PhD

Brian J. Lopresti, PhD

Kurt M. Lucin, PhD

Patrick Maisona, PhD

M. D. Majewska, PhD

Jennifer Margulia, PhD

Thomas Marichal, PhD

N. Scott Mason, PhD

A. Kimberley McAllister, PhD

Jaquelyn McCandless, MD

Susan McCreadie, MD

(The late) Dr. Robert Mendelsohn, MD

(The late) John Menkes, MD, Former head of pediatric neurology at UCLA Medical School. Menkes was also director of pediatric neurology at the Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles. In addition, he was a member of the Forum for Vaccine Safety with the National Institute of Medicine.

Joseph Mercola, DO

Claire Mesnil, PhD

K. Meyza, PhD

S. Midha, PhD

P. Mierzejewski, PhD

Donald W. Miller, Jr. MD

Richard Moskowitz, MD

Elizabeth Mumper, MD, Associate professor of clinical pediatrics at the University of Virginia

Devi S. Nambudripod, MD

Meryl Nass, MD

C. Nelson, PhD

E. Newell, PhD

Raymond Obomsawin, MSc, PhD

Tetyana Obukhanych, PhD

Keiichi Ohata, PhD

M. Olczak, PhD

Dr. Mehmet Oz

Larry Palevsky, MD

Elodie Passeria, PhD

Michael S. Petrik, PhD

Jon Poling, MD

Diana Popa, PhD

Massroor Pourcyrous, MD

Sandy Reider, MD

(The late) Bernard Rimland, MD

Aviva Jill Romm, MD

Robert Rowen, MD

Catherine Sabatel, PhD

E. M. Sajdel-Sulkowska, PhD

Bob Sears, MD

Martyn A. Sharpe, PhD

Chris Shaw, Professor, PhD

DD Shen, PhD

K. Vijendra Singh, PhD

Yehuda Shoenfeld, MD, FRCP

Peter Siesjö, PhD

Ken Stoller, MD

Carol Stott, PhD

Arnold J. Stromberg, PhD

Z. L. Sulkowski, PhD

Louise Swarbrick, PhD

Rena C. Tabata, PhD

Sherri Tenpenny, DO

Paul Thomas, MD

Jaime Tomko, PhD

Lucija Tomljenovic, PhD

Anju Usman, MD

Eva Vanamee, PhD

Chiara Villac, PhD

Andrew Wakefield,

John Walker-Smith, Professor

Judy Wilyman, PhD candidate

Margaret C. Wong, PhD

Tony Wyss-Coray, PhD

V.C. Yang, PhD

Amy Yasko, MD

Edward Yazbak, MD

Judy Van de Water, PhD, Immunology, UC Davis

Chiara Villac, PhD

Walter Zahorodny, PhD, Assistant Professor of Pediatrics, University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey

A. M. Zavacki, PhD

Source: http://www.greatergoodmovie.org/news-views/doctors-and-scientists-with-concerns-about-vaccines/

 

[Deborah K]

Article from AAPS

American Children Need Access to Better Vaccines

Feb 9, 2015


As measles spreads, pressures are increasing to force reluctant parents to fully vaccinate their children. Gov. Christie is severely criticized for suggesting that there should be a choice, states the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS).

AAPS is opposed to mandatory vaccination, holding that patients have the right to refuse medical treatment, and that vaccines, like all medical interventions, have risks as well as benefits, which vary with individuals and circumstances.

“We should ask why some parents reject MMR (measles-mumps-rubella vaccine),” states AAPS executive director Jane M. Orient, M.D.

One reason is moral. Merck’s MMR vaccine is manufactured using material from aborted babies, she notes.

The other is worry about autism. Though most children tolerate the vaccine well, there are hundreds of reports of children who stopped making eye contact and lost language skills soon after receiving MMR. “Science does not ignore observations,” Orient says.

Autism used to be diagnosed in 1 in 10,000 children. Now it is more like 1 in 85. “This demands an explanation; it can’t just be that we failed to notice this devastating condition in the past,” she states.

“Many factors may well contribute, but it is not unreasonable to suspect that MMR is one of them. Measles itself can cause encephalitis (brain inflammation)—its most dreaded complication. MMR is a live-virus vaccine. And the combination could be riskier than the separate elements.”

More here: http://www.aapsonline.org/index.php/article/american_children_need_access_to_better_vaccines/

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a national organization representing physicians in all specialties, founded in 1943 to preserve private medicine and the patient-physician relationship

 

[juleswin]

Is there any graph out there for permanent injury from measles virus pre and post widespread use of vaccines. The OP graph is not really that helpful if there happens to be millions of children permanently injured by the disease but are still alive.

Btw, the problem with using stats from some third world countries is that there still quite a sizable population of children who are malnourished, lack clean water that will die from just about from anything and any improvement in their lives like vaccines, clean water, balanced diet, shelter will increase survival rates of everything.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Clean water, nutritional foods, good hygiene and sanitation has made much of the difference, not vaccines.


Disease decline before introduction of immunisation

Measles deaths 1901 to vaccination

Vaccines: Are they really Safe and Effective?

Vaccines Did Not Save Us – 2 Centuries Of Official Statistics

In 2000, 548,000 people died from the measles world- wide. In 2011, it was 145,000. http://www.who.int/features/2013/india_measles/en/

Did they suddenly install more plumbing and institute more hand washing around the world? Did the global food supply suddenly improve? Those factors can help but do not say that vaccines do no good. Actually it was an immunization campaign which reduced the numbers that quickly.

India went from being the #1 country for polio to no cases within just a few years. More sanitation for their billions of citizens? No- vaccine program- 172 million kids a year. One can certainly not make the case that vaccines do not help.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

your truth is dishonest propganda.

blow up the mortality graph between 1950 and today. anybody that uses the graph you used is either ignorant, or a liar

What? Did I hear that correctly? Showing a certain graph is classified as lying???

Oh, man, this is rich!

 

[juleswin]

In 2000, 548,000 people died from the measles world- wide. In 2011, it was 145,000. http://www.who.int/features/2013/india_measles/en/

Did they suddenly install more plumbing and institute more hand washing around the world? Did the global food supply suddenly improve? Those factors can help but do not say that vaccines do no good. Actually it was an immunization campaign which reduced the numbers that quickly.

India went from being the #1 country for polio to no cases within just a few years. More sanitation for their billions of citizens? No- vaccine program- 172 million kids a year. One can certainly not make the case that vaccines do not help.

So convenient to use polio in your examples seeing as polio is one of those diseases that an increase in sanitation increases the rates of it. Most of human kind, children actually accidentally inoculated against the virus by parents accidentally (fecal-oral route) giving their children the virus before the age of 2. Most people don't know this but get infected with the polio virus before the age of 2 and you get a lifetime immunity and no disability but after that you get immunity and high possibly the disability.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Given their overall low sanitation rates, India should have had a low infection rate then instead of the highest in the world.

Ron Paul called the Polio vaccine "a blessing"- having known childhood friends effected by it (some even died). Today- few people know anybody who has been effected by it due to the success of vaccines. That makes it easier to say "we don't need then" when you don't get to see what not having them meant.

 

[juleswin]

Given their overall low sanitation rates, India should have had a low infection rate then instead of the highest in the world.

Ron Paul called the Polio vaccine "a blessing"- having known childhood friends effected by it (some even died).

Low infection rate compared to who? Again, you don't understand how this works. Being a little bit sanitary like most people are now (even in India) makes it worse. My guess is that they use anti bacterial soap in India and even the rural population know about germ theory.

But I am not on the side that thinks vaccines don't work, I know they work and I know how they work. I also know that introducing vaccines to those areas is much cheaper way of improving lives than providing clean water, nutritious food, etc etc. I am just point out your use of polio in a way to dismiss the huge role sanitation and nutrition can play to improve health outcomes for even vaccine preventable diseases.

 

[Zippyjuan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/15/w...well-fed-children-with-malnutrition.html?_r=0

Half of India’s population, or at least 620 million people, defecate outdoors. And while this share has declined slightly in the past decade, an analysis of census data shows that rapid population growth has meant that most Indians are being exposed to more human waste than ever before.

In Sheohar, for instance, a toilet-building program between 2001 and 2011 decreased the share of households without toilets to 80 percent from 87 percent, but population growth meant that exposure to human waste rose by half.

“The difference in average height between Indian and African children can be explained entirely by differing concentrations of open defecation,” said Dean Spears, an economist at the Delhi School of Economics. “There are far more people defecating outside in India more closely to one another’s children and homes than there are in Africa or anywhere else in the world.”

Not only does stunting contribute to the deaths of a million children under the age of 5 each year, but those who survive suffer cognitive deficits and are poorer and sicker than children not affected by stunting. They also may face increased risks for adult illnesses like diabetes, heart attacks and strokes.

“India’s stunting problem represents the largest loss of human potential in any country in history, and it affects 20 times more people in India alone than H.I.V./AIDS does around the world,” said Ramanan Laxminarayan, vice president for research and policy at the Public Health Foundation of India.

India is an increasingly risky place to raise children. The country’s sanitation and air quality are among the worst in the world. Parasitic diseases and infections like tuberculosis, often linked with poor sanitation, are most common in India. More than one in four newborn deaths occur in India.

Open defecation has long been an issue in India. Some ancient Hindu texts advised people to relieve themselves far from home, a practice that Gandhi sought to curb.

“The cause of many of our diseases is the condition of our lavatories and our bad habit of disposing of excreta anywhere and everywhere,” Gandhi wrote in 1925.

No Indian city has a comprehensive waste treatment system, and most Indian rivers are open sewers as a result. But Varanasi, India’s oldest and holiest city, is so awash in human waste that its decrepit condition became a national issue in recent elections. The city’s sewage plants can handle only about 20 percent of the sewage generated in the city, said Ramesh Chopra of Ganga Seva Abhiyanam, a trust for cleaning the river. The rest sloshes into the Ganges or fetid ponds and pits.

Millions of pilgrims bathe in the Ganges along Varanasi’s ancient riverfront, but a stream of human waste — nearly 75 million liters per day — flows directly into the river just above the bathing ghats, steps leading down to the river. Many people wash or brush their teeth beside smaller sewage outlets.

Much of the city’s drinking water comes from the river, and half of Indian households drink from contaminated supplies.

I agree with the rest of what you said.

 

[juleswin]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/15/w...well-fed-children-with-malnutrition.html?_r=0


I agree with the rest of what you said.

Unlike most diseases, polio can be completely eradicated

There are 3 strains of wild poliovirus, none of which can survive for long periods outside of the human body. If the virus cannot find an unvaccinated person to infect, it will die out. Type 2 wild poliovirus was eradicated in 1999 and case numbers of type 3 wild poliovirus are down to the lowest-ever levels.

http://www.who.int/features/factfiles/polio/facts/en/index3.html

Yup, so this is something that happens relatively quickly like when a mother starts breastfeeding after changing their babies diapers or a 3 yr old kid running around naked touches their ass then puts their finger in their mouth. So unless Indian people in general like to play around in freshly produced human feces, high numbers of outdoor toilets will have little impact on polio infection rates.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Yet their last confirmed case was in 2011. http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/27/health/india-polio-3-years/

Was sanitation the reason?

 

[angelatc]

So how did this get published on RPI if it is a lie and Ron Paul supports just facts?

I have no idea - I don't work there. But what facts did she present?

 

[angelatc]

Tell that to these doctors:

cerns-about-vaccines/

Again, that is not a fact - it is an appeal to authority.

 

[angelatc]

Is there any graph out there for permanent injury from measles virus pre and post widespread use of vaccines. The OP graph is not really that helpful if there happens to be millions of children permanently injured by the disease but are still alive.

Btw, the problem with using stats from some third world countries is that there still quite a sizable population of children who are malnourished, lack clean water that will die from just about from anything and any improvement in their lives like vaccines, clean water, balanced diet, shelter will increase survival rates of everything.

Exactly. That's why the graph that the anti-vaxxers insist on posting and reposting actually undermines their own argument. The improvements in sanitation and medicine improved survival rates, no doubt about that. But the disease itself didn't stop until the vaccine was introduced.

 

[Created4]

Vaccines will be the political tool for total medical tyranny and control over lives.

That's it. ^^^ Short enough summary to tweet.

All this nonsense debate about the "science" is just that: nonsense. Anyone who truly believes that the "science is settled" on ANYTHING, let alone vaccines, knows very little about biological science.

What we should ALL be opposing no matter what our views are on vaccines is MEDICAL TYRANNY.

 

[Thor]

What facts did she present?

You should ask RPI since they posted the story... somebody at RPI thinks there is merit there...

And I missed your reply on your medical degree... where was it from?

 

[juleswin]

Yet their last confirmed case was in 2011. http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/27/health/india-polio-3-years/

Was sanitation the reason?

Nope, I didn't say that cos I am not one of those who think vaccines don't work. So, I'll say it again, vaccines do work and I am sure it is responsible for the eradication some diseases including that strain of polio virus (possible eradication). Also it helps that polio unlike measles is not transmitted via airborne or like chicken pox where you can spot someone who has it a mile away. This is another thing people fail to mention when they anti vaxxers for the reason why measles hasn't been eradicated. But that is dicussion for another day