Fiat and the Abuse of Using This Term

[devil21]

Kinda seems like we now have Zippy 3.0. Someone is working their ass off to pump his rep bar back up too.

 

[oyarde]

Many people don't even use cash these days.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/are-cash-transactions-becoming-extinct/



I guess that if paper money isn't real money, digital money is.

That's pretty funny , what percentage is in credit cards ? Hell , that is unsecured debt and even debt no other person is on the hook for if there is one name on the account .

 

[The Gold Standard]

Fiat is declaring something has a certain value. A gold standard is a fiat standard since the government declares the value of gold. Actually our money today is less fiat than under a gold standard because the value of the dollar is allowed to float.

The original U.S. gold standard only defined a dollar as a specific weight of gold. The value of gold was not dictated by fiat. How would they have done that? Set price controls on all goods and services to set the value of gold? Gold was the money, and it's value was also allowed to float. Now when the government began mandating taxes be paid in paper dollars, that gave credence to paper dollars that would not have existed, but that still has nothing to do with the value of gold. Wasn't the last Zippy better than this, or am I mistaken?

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Kinda seems like we now have Zippy 3.0. Someone is working their ass off to pump his rep bar back up too.

It's funny you should say that about a third person at the ZippyJuan account. I sort of noticed something different about his account, but it might be that he is a little annoyed that his own game is being given right back to him.

I noticed he's been posting a little more furiously these days. Making a few more threads to grab a few reps. Sucking up a little more, too. Probably grabbing a few reps from a few Daily Paul members not familiar with his sugary polite shrewdness.

I am still neg repping him where he purposely spams, is purposely obtuse, and other reasons.

TWasn't the last Zippy better than this, or am I mistaken?

The current Zip seems a little dumber than the Zip from 2 months ago, but seems like he's a little desperate too. His game is out in the open.

The account has been posting a lot more lately, so I wonder if two people are on this account right now.

 

[William Tell]

"Zippyjuan is a glorious beacon of light"

 

[acptulsa]

All the better to make you blind.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Spin-off from another thread.

Neg rep. Redundancy. Privilege abuse. Attention whoring.



There should be a thread about ZippyJuan and people like him who abuse the privilege of posting on this forum and not getting booted off.

 

[acptulsa]

Meh. Few want him banned.

He's a polite and patient whetstone. If the Fed wants to pay someone to let us sharpen our knives on, fine.

 

[devil21]

Big changes are coming VERY soon and Zippy and his sock-puppet buddies are working really hard to distract and disinfo this subforum. If you haven't read my thread on the Canada Appeals Court case, you should asap.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Oh, I don't think people like ZippyJuan and PRB should be banned. I think they should be made to display their red rep bars instead of complaining to the mods and having their rep restored. Just like a scarlet letter--all deviants should be identified.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Meh. Few want him banned.

He's a polite and patient whetstone. If the Fed wants to pay someone to let us sharpen our knives on, fine.

This^^ He tends to mix truth and opinion in a way we should expect propaganda outlets to do in the future. Couldn't hurt to get practice responding to it now.

 

[Ronin Truth]

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." -- Henry Ford

 

[jmdrake]

Spin-off from another thread. Martin Armstrong on the subject.

Fiat is declaring something has a certain value. A gold standard is a fiat standard since the government declares the value of gold. Actually our money today is less fiat than under a gold standard because the value of the dollar is allowed to float.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/15/fiat-and-the-abuse-of-using-this-term/

I hope you don't believe this crap! A gold standard doesn't simply mean that you declare money to be worth so much in gold. A gold standard means that the money is redeemable in gold. If I gave you an IOU that said "Bring this to me and I will give you an ounce of gold" that IOU would be worth one ounce of gold as long as I actually had that in reserve and you could trust that you could redeem the IOU for an ounce of gold. Goodness, I feel like I'm a kindergarten teacher even having to explain this.

 

[acptulsa]

Goodness, I feel like I'm a kindergarten teacher even having to explain this.

The various typists on that account have been through kindergarten. Many times.

We've gone 'round about this lie before. You like to pretend I'm engaging in semantics, but the fact is you are falsely trying to convince people the dollar was just as intrinsically worthless back then as it is now, but the price of gold was fixed.

I dare you to quote this post in its entirety, then type underneath, 'The dollar was not a certain amount of gold, but the price of gold was merely fixed by statute.'

The dollar was defined as a certain amount of gold- yes, if you want to play semantics. The inverse is also true- then the value of gold is a certain amount of dollars.

If A=B then by definition, B=A.

Either way, there was no "free market" price for gold based on supply and demand but what the government said the exchange rate between gold and dollars should be. Today, both are allowed to float in value.

So how much does the Fed pay you to pretend that's just semantics? You know better. Many a dictator has tried to tie an intrinsically worthless currency to gold, and many a dictator has failed. You could not possibly be as well-versed in this stuff as you are and not know that; ergo, you are being intentionally deceptive, meaning you are lying. The fact that the dollar was once a solid object and now it is not is not semantics and you damned well know it.

Were there more dollars than gold in circulation during the days of the straight gold standard? You know that was impossible, because a certain amount of gold was a dollar, and without it the dollar did not exist. Can you even answer yes or no without either lying or risking being fired?

The point is the dollar held its value back then because the supply of gold could not be increased simply by running some intraglio presses or punching some buttons on a computer keyboard. And the middle class remained the middle class all the while, and people could save their money without fearing it would shrink like wool in a hot dryer, because gold does not do that. It may fluctuate, but unlike any paper-backed paper money in history, after gold drops in value it actually goes back up sooner or later. That is the whole, plain truth, and just as I predicted you would call it semantics, I said before you lied and am saying now that you are lying--and know it.

We do not speak Newspeak here. This is not the Memory Hole.

I think they were just hoping we wouldn't be diligent on Easter.

 

[The Gold Standard]

The term "fiat money" simply means that a certain money is the money in a society because the government decreed it so. It has nothing to do with assigning value. When gold and silver were legal tender, you could call them "fiat", although that's what the people would be using anyway. With U.S. dollars, the only reason anyone uses them is because the government makes people use them.

 

[acptulsa]

The term "fiat money" simply means that a certain money is the money in a society because the government decreed it so. It has nothing to do with assigning value. When gold and silver were legal tender, you could call them "fiat", although that's what the people would be using anyway. With U.S. dollars, the only reason anyone uses them is because the government makes people use them.

Bull.

Words have meanings. Phrases have meanings. And the only reason propagandists try to deny those meanings is they want to prevent meaningful and intelligent conversations among the propagandized.

Fiat money and sound money are phrases with specific, opposite meanings. And you can't change that any more than The Zippy Account can. No matter how often you repeat the lie.

Sound money is money made of something that has value even before anyone decides to use it as money. Fiat money is money made of something that has nowhere near that value until some government says it does. If you don't like it, don't tell us. Tell every economist and every dictionary company in the English-speaking world.

This was said many times in this thread already. Popping up to tack a reiteration of this lie on the end merely makes you look like you flunked kindergarten. Is someone actually dumb enough to pay for this? Is there any point to saying that silver and gold '...is what people were using anyway,' then saying, 'With U.S. dollars, the only reason anyone uses them is because the government makes people use them'? I guess you never heard of a silver dollar? I guess you were temporarily blinded when you looked at the pic in post 34? Can you not see you just confirmed what you were attempting to deny? Do you expect us to believe you did not choose your user name with an ulterior motive, even though you don't seem to have even the most rudimentary understanding of what the gold standard was?

I'm liking this thread better all the time. I think I will bump it until doomsday.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Nice bump. Just for convenience and new folks browsing teh forums, the dictionary definition of fiat:

noun 1. an authoritative decree, sanction, or order: a royal fiat.
Synonyms: authorization, directive, ruling, mandate, diktat, ukase.


2. a fixed form of words containing the word fiat, by which a person in authority gives sanction, or authorization.

3. an arbitrary decree or pronouncement, especially by a person or group of persons having absolute authority to enforce it: The king ruled by fiat.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

actuptulsa becks: Fiat money and sound money are phrases with specific, opposite meanings. And you can't change that any more than The Zippy Account can. No matter how often you repeat the lie.



...good grief!!...cease with the beck/limbaugh eCONomic bilge!!!...apparently, you have heard this stinking meme for so long you have accepted it and incorporated it into your $piel!..

...you are falsely/ignorantly confusing the term/concept 'fiat money' with 'intrinsically worthless money'..

...get real, man!!..put away your childish republicrat theorie$ and acquire some monetary reality!..(see my excellent thread...the best in the www:..."Exposing Republicrat Monetary Ignorance For Dummies"..

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Bull.

Words have meanings. Phrases have meanings. And the only reason propagandists try to deny those meanings is they want to prevent meaningful and intelligent conversations among the propagandized.

Fiat money and sound money are phrases with specific, opposite meanings. And you can't change that any more than The Zippy Account can. No matter how often you repeat the lie.

Sound money is money made of something that has value even before anyone decides to use it as money. Fiat money is money made of something that has nowhere near that value until some government says it does. If you don't like it, don't tell us. Tell every economist and every dictionary company in the English-speaking world.

This was said many times in this thread already. Popping up to tack a reiteration of this lie on the end merely makes you look like you flunked kindergarten. Is someone actually dumb enough to pay for this? Is there any point to saying that silver and gold '...is what people were using anyway,' then saying, 'With U.S. dollars, the only reason anyone uses them is because the government makes people use them'? I guess you never heard of a silver dollar? I guess you were temporarily blinded when you looked at the pic in post 34? Can you not see you just confirmed what you were attempting to deny? Do you expect us to believe you did not choose your user name with an ulterior motive, even though you don't seem to have even the most rudimentary understanding of what the gold standard was?

I'm liking this thread better all the time. I think I will bump it until doomsday.

What the OP and Zip, et. al. get correct is that government forced and/or controlled metallic standards are fiat. Gold, on the other hand, meets ALL the criteria for being money and can be used as such whether or not the regime has an official metallic standard. As you say, the mix of truth and fabrication that's going on with your opponents here is what we can call disinformation or propaganda.

 

[acptulsa]

actuptulsa becks: Fiat money and sound money are phrases with specific, opposite meanings. And you can't change that any more than The Zippy Account can. No matter how often you repeat the lie.



...good grief!!...cease with the beck/limbaugh eCONomic bilge!!!...apparently, you have heard this stinking meme for so long you have accepted it and incorporated it into your $piel!..

...you are falsely/ignorantly confusing the term/concept 'fiat money' with 'intrinsically worthless money'..

...get real, man!!..put away your childish republicrat theorie$ and acquire some monetary reality!..(see my excellent thread...the best in the www:..."Exposing Republicrat Monetary Ignorance For Dummies"..

I assume you're talking to me. Fiat money has come to mean money with its value determined by fiat. Admittedly, a case could be made that fiat money is any money that is declared to be legal tender. But that is not the way it is generally used on this site, except by people trying to propagandize for the Fed and people who just like to pick fights. And there's a reason for that. Sound money is worth pretty much the same no matter what some legislature does. Fiat money is not. Here there is a difference actually worth talking about.

And the only thing excellent about that rambling, somewhat acerbic thread is that we are all free not to click on it and plow through it.