Feds upset that technology is making it more difficult to spy on people

[DamianTV]

Waah, get a Warrant first. Oh, they dont even think they should have to do that.

All they are accompishing is driving everyone underground. They are gonna make real threats to the people even harder to spot. Perhaps this is exactly what is needed. Everyone making a collective effort to be free to communicate without being monitored. The sad thing is that the Feds are so accustomed to lying and getting away with it that they are really lying to themselves. They are creating the Fascist Dystopian Nightmare and suffocating people in order to prevent that same suffocation from happening at the purported threat by someone else.

The Feds abuse of power is going to result in millions of people saying the Feds can go fuck themselves.

 

[nobody's_hero]

See, I think it's quite the opposite. Technology makes it EASIER for the feds to spy on you.

It's hard for me to imagine a bunch of colonists in the 1700s complaining about the drone capabilities of King George when drones hadn't been invented yet. But these days a drone the size of a moth can listen in on your conversation. I believe that if such technology had been possible 250 years ago, the war for American independence would never have succeeded, if it had been able to start at all.

But I'm a luddite, like anti-Federalist.

 

[DamianTV]

See, I think it's quite the opposite. Technology makes it EASIER for the feds to spy on you.

It's hard for me to imagine a bunch of colonists in the 1700s complaining about the drone capabilities of King George when drones hadn't been invented yet. But these days a drone the size of a moth can listen in on your conversation. I believe that if such technology had been possible 250 years ago, the war for American independence would never have succeeded, if it had been able to start at all.

But I'm a luddite, like anti-Federalist.

Yeah, this:

Is a Future Revolution Possible Without Privacy?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/entry.php?842-Is-a-Future-Revolution-Possible-Without-Privacy

 

[devil21]

I couldn't even get past the first sentence.

Federal law enforcement and intelligence authorities say they are increasingly struggling to conduct court-ordered wiretaps [read: sham FISA "court"] on suspects because of a surge in chat services, instant messaging and other online communications that lack the technical means to be intercepted.

Oh, you mean like the same sort of chat and IM programs the IRS used to avoid email archive laws, as admitted by Mr. Koskinen in last week's House hearing? Those same programs?

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I don't know about you, but I'd rather live in a country where a call claiming an emergency in a home could be traced

Luckily, technology does not respond to your wishes.

This is not a policy decision. This is technological reality. But, you're welcome to write your Congressman with your concerns.

 

[LibertyEsq]

Luckily, technology does not respond to your wishes.

This is not a policy decision. This is technological reality. But, you're welcome to write your Congressman with your concerns.

That's not true at all, companies who supply this technology have means to trace p2p calls. That's how anyone ever gets caught right now, except right now it has to get routed through the FBI and takes months to find out. Its completely unsustainable, really. A few kids who know how to mask their IPs can constantly raise hell for the rest of us.

 

[DamianTV]

That's not true at all, companies who supply this technology have means to trace p2p calls. That's how anyone ever gets caught right now, except right now it has to get routed through the FBI and takes months to find out. Its completely unsustainable, really. A few kids who know how to mask their IPs can constantly raise hell for the rest of us.

Hell being defined as talking about "our Govt is out of balance"? Technology can be used for either good or evil, just like a gun, just like the law, just like any tool... There are threats out there. But I think your reaction to "not being protected by Govt" is both Govt's expected response, and disproportionate from the actual Level of Threat.

 

[LibertyEsq]

Hell being defined as talking about "our Govt is out of balance"? Technology can be used for either good or evil, just like a gun, just like the law, just like any tool... There are threats out there. But I think your reaction to "not being protected by Govt" is both Govt's expected response, and disproportionate from the actual Level of Threat.

That's not what I am saying at all...it is the government itself that is being abused due to its ineptitude. I don't want to be protected by Govt, I want to be protected FROM government ineptitude, in this case due to anonymous tips - which is a problem generally, not just in the p2p prank call context

 

[DamianTV]

That's not what I am saying at all...it is the government itself that is being abused due to its ineptitude. I don't want to be protected by Govt, I want to be protected FROM government ineptitude, in this case due to anonymous tips - which is a problem generally, not just in the p2p prank call context

True. People get the Govt they demand. And many, too many, all want the "protect me" and "take care of me" from Govt to the point that said Govt becomes inept. There are two sides to this. The people that want Govt, and the Govt that gives people what they want. One thing to remember for those types of people is a Govt big enough to give them everything they want is big enough to take it all away as well.

 

[TheTexan]

I don't know about you, but I'd rather live in a country where a call claiming an emergency in a home could be traced (just traced, not wiretapped) to verify the claim, and fraudulent callers prosecuted, rather than one where the above can happen regularly.

I'd rather live in a country where there were no cops and it wasn't simply OK to break into someone's home based on what amounts to zero evidence

 

[Schifference]

Maybe it should be illegal for any police action to be implemented from an anonymous tip or any person not willing to go on record and be verified/identified. Then old fashion police detective work should be performed to determine if the claim has merit. What is the problem with gathering some non lethal intel and verifying the evidence prior to any type of police action.
There should be a check list and pertinent criteria should be mandated to be met. If a library book is past due or a guy is selling non taxed loose cigarettes on the street corner that would not meet the criteria for a no knock bash the door down raid.
The no knock raid does away with any type of investigative police work.
I am not for any infringement on my privacy. But, if my rights are going to be violated and my home is going to be swatted I would prefer a moth drone to peep through the window and diminish the threat prior to my family member getting blown away.
The cops are operating with brutal force and a stone age mentality. What is so hard with making sure you have the right person, place and cause before sending in the brutal gang?
I am a nurse and I need to verify that I have the right person and am administering the right medication, the right dose, at the right time. If I fuck up I can lose my job, license, and get sued. Doctors that operate on the wrong patient or cut off the wrong arm or leg are held accountable.

 

[Constitutional Paulicy]

cry me a fucking river.

Dude...I almost posted this exact phrase. Usually after I read the threads, there is little I can say, that hasn't been said already.

 

[Constitutional Paulicy]

One former U.S. official said that each year “hundreds” of individualized wiretap orders for foreign intelligence are not being fully executed because of a growing gap between the government’s legal authority and its practical ability to capture communications — a problem that bureau officials have called “going dark.”

First of all, since when does legal authority play a role in preventing them from getting what they want. Secondly wouldn't "going dark" define our government.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

That's not true at all, companies who supply this technology have means to trace p2p calls. That's how anyone ever gets caught right now, except right now it has to get routed through the FBI and takes months to find out. Its completely unsustainable, really. A few kids who know how to mask their IPs can constantly raise hell for the rest of us.

It is a technological reality. The game you're wanting the government to play is called "Swat-A-Mole."

Do we play Swat-A-Mole, or do we not play Swat-A-Mole? That is a policy decision. You can please feel free to write your Congressman about it.

Are p2p phone calls going to be made easily traceable? That is a question of technological reality. The answer is no. That answer could only be changed through a lot of hard work by knowledgeable persons in creating a counter-technology. Even then, it might not be possible.

You are welcome to wish for Swat-A-Mole. The government will probably be happy to play. They played it with music downloading. They played it with movie downloading. How hard will it be to add a phone call feature to uTorrent?