Feds grant EMINENT DOMAIN as collateral to China for US debts![Mod Note: Unconfirmed]

[Zippyjuan]

What???? Of course they can't "export" a mall. Nor, do they have to. What we're talking about here is whether it is a good idea for the U.S. to be owned by foreigners who have not exactly been friends of this country and the principles of liberty.

So again, do you have no problem if it got to the point that the U.S. was largely owned by foreign entities?

What do you consider the problem with foreign property ownership? They cannot use the property in any ways that a domestic owner could not. They cannot take the poperty away.

 

[Zippyjuan]

You didn't answer this one.

I do not consider it a problem who owns property in the US.

 

[Mini-Me]

.China has more influence from buying Treasuries than they could possibly gain from buying property. Property is being bought by individuals and businesses- not the government of China. They are buying property as investments- not to buy influence.

You're missing the point. The point is in the two words, "eminent domain." That's the part that has people pissed off. The government shouldn't have the authority of eminent domain in the first place. Of course, then it goes and abuses it by stealing land to give to corporations (instead of projects for the supposed "public good," which was the original justification for eminent domain). And NOW, the government is apparently planning on stealing land and giving it to entirely foreign investors as collateral/payment for debt, etc...debt that the government sank itself into without our approval in the first place. Sure, it's just a rumor at the moment, but for a second, pretend as though it was confirmed. In that case, would you seriously not see anything horribly wrong with this picture? Is there absolutely ANYTHING the state EVER does that actually bothers you in the slightest?

I mean, what would it take for you to make even a mild statement of disapproval? A world war for political reasons? Concentration camps? 100% tax rates on everything and zero private property ownership? The way you post, I somehow feel as though you'd sit around and act like none of those things would be any big deal or anything to worry about, either. I mean, seriously...if you found out that the President was sending shock troops to people's houses to steal their babies, and Congress was frying up ten babies alive every morning and eating them for brunch and bathing in their blood on C-SPAN...would you be upset? I'm starting to get the feeling you'd say something like, "Guys, this really isn't something to worry about. There are so many babies in America, the odds of your baby being stolen from you, fried up, and eaten are just too low to make a fuss over. Seriously, why worry about something that probably won't even personally affect you? It's not that big of a deal. Besides, this is probably as far as they'll ever go, so let's just take this one step at a time without worrying about the implications. After all, the slippery slope doesn't exist, and government has never tried to gradually expand its power in stages."

 

[LibForestPaul]

If you want to pull out money because you think that the banking system is going to collapse, that's one thing, but organizing bank runs is illegal and immoral.

Why is it illegal?

Why would you consider it immoral?

Do you really own any allegaince to the financiers who have already stolen half of your money?

 

[constituent]

So Zippy, is your position that you could care less if it got to a point that the U.S. was largely owned by foreigners?

why not? there's plenty of worthless american pricks w/ too much ill-gotten money that own land right now.

i don't care who's fuckin' me over or where they're from, only that they are.

 

[constituent]

Surely, you must be kidding. Both are important. If our country's assets are largely owned by a foreign country, even if we were able to get out of debt, our country would no longer be our own.

If ownership is the measure of "our own," then it ain't mine anyway.

why should i care if the chinese run prices up on you?

the answer:

i shouldn't, and don't.

 

[constituent]

What???? Of course they can't "export" a mall. Nor, do they have to. What we're talking about here is whether it is a good idea for the U.S. to be owned by foreigners who have not exactly been friends of this country and the principles of liberty.

What about it being owned by americans who haven't "exactly been friends of this country and the principles of liberty" is any better?

 

[ForrestLayne]

I do not consider it a problem who owns property in the US.

When a enough foreign people own land in the U.S., what is to stop another nation from "demanding " a military base on U.S. to protect their citizen's interests? Have not nations done this before in other countries? The U.S. has bases all over the world to "protect their interests."

 

[Bossobass]

I do not consider it a problem who owns property in the US.

You should probably be more specific.

What about the interstate highway system with rights to charge tolls and no details as to maintenance or improvements?

What about mineral rights? We have 2 trillion tons of coal, billions of barrels of oil, 100 years of iron ore, gold, silver, timber, etc.

How about our national parks?

Fresh water?

Most of our debt has gone to military hardware, none of which debt is repaid. So, let's include the entire fleet of nuclear subs on the 'property' list, along with the hundreds of satellites we have circling the globe.

All of these things are property, all of which is mortgaged to the hilt if you include property and eminent domain as included in the demands for guarantees against 'the full faith and credit of the United States'.

As the title of the thread addresses, we're talking about the cabinet of the executive branch offering eminent domain in the US to a Communist country in exchange for continued loans to service our never-ending spending spree. If this is true (and I don't believe it is), it's unaccptable... period.

We invade countries, assassinate their leaders and install puppets and install permanent military bases all under the veil of "national security", but all of the above doesn't fall under that veil?

Arabs attempted to buy our ports. Astounding. I guess you'd have been OK with that?

Bullshit.

Our politicians are acting like third world puppets. Instead of shrugging it off as a non-event, you should be hopping pissed about it.

Bosso

 

[stilltrying]

Zippyjuan is lost

I have read many a posts of zippyjuan who is all for paper money and does not see the sound money (ala gold standard) as good. I have debated with zippy on the corruption of the federal reserve and fiat money a time or two. It is of my opinion that zippy is no lover of liberty or sound economic principals. Obvious for his posts on this thread that he is not for sovereignty either, this person is a poser. With zippy it is fine "whomever has the money rules", soon enough those with the money that move here will rule and slave chinese communism labor isnt exactly my idea of a good time. Best of wishes to you zippy in your future chinese work camp job, I hope you dont get bad knees or a bad back the elites might find no use for you.

 

[stilltrying]

for what its worth

oh and also I think for any country that is concerned about their sovereignty that they should not allow a foreigner to buy their land. if the foreigners want they can lease or time share. it is of my opinion that ultimately the people that permanently declare or are natural born citizens in that country should own their land

 

[qh4dotcom]

Breaking news. Chinese govt can now grab US citizen property through eminent domain?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601009&sid=a_dsDz145J_A

http://www.google.com/search?q="Sou...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Just got this e-mail from my meetup and I am doubting if it is true (haven't heard Glenn Beck scream about this) but it was so shocking that I thought I would post it here

February 26, 2009
FEDS GRANT EMINENT DOMAIN AS COLLATERAL TO CHINA FOR U.S. DEBTS!

Beijing, China -- Sources at the United States Embassy in Beijing China have just CONFIRMED to me that the United States of America has tendered to China a written agreement which grants to the People's Republic of China, an option to exercise Eminent Domain within the USA, as collateral for China's continued purchase of US Treasury Notes and existing US Currency reserves!

The written agreement was brought to Beijing by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and was formalized and agreed-to during her recent trip to China.

This means that in the event the US Government defaults on its financial obligations to China, the Communist Government of China would be permitted to physically take -- inside the USA -- land, buildings, factories, perhaps even entire cities - to satisfy the financial obligations of the US government.

Put simply, the feds have now actually mortgaged the physical land and property of all citizens and businesses in the United States. They have given to a foreign power, their Constitutional power to "take" all of our property, as actual collateral for continued Chinese funding of US deficit spending and the continued carrying of US national debt.

This is an unimaginable betrayal of every man, woman and child in the USA. An outrage worthy of violent overthrow.

I am endeavoring to obtain images or copies of the actual document but in the interim, several different sources both in the US and in China have CONFIRMED this to me.

More details as they become available. . . . . spread the word ASAP.

-------------- UPDATE 1:40 pm EST

Eminent Domain is the power of government to TAKE private property for public use without the consent of the property owner. Under our Constitution, the government can only "take" when providing "just compensation" for what they've taken.

Who decides what constitutes "just compensation?" The government!

Homeowners who felt the government was not paying them enough for property in past "takings" have filed lawsuits. In absolutely every such case, the value placed upon the property by the government was upheld by the courts.

Our federal government has now granted to China, this power to "take"our homes and businesses in the event the US Gov't defaults on its debts. Let's play this out as a worst case scenario. . . . . .

The US Gov't goes belly-up and China comes in and says, "they owed us $2 Trillion in Treasury Notes and another $2 Trillion in actual cash money which is now worthless. We are taking the entire state of Hawaii and the entire state of California in lieu of this bad debt. "

With the stroke of a Chinese chop stick, Hawaii and California -- all the land and buildings in those states -- are now owned by China.

The "taking" would be a "valid public use" because it was "taken" in payment of the public debt!!!!

China could then turn around and declare the value of all that land to be worth. . . . . I dunno, ten cents on a dollar?

For your $200,000 house, you get a Chinese check for $20,000.

Needless to say, the property owners would go ballistic and demand "just compensation" for what was taken. Who gets to decide what is "just?" China! Don't think you got a fair price for what they took? No problem, sue China.

You'll lose.

People who live in those states and own their land outright, might be able to negotiate with China to "rent" back their own property, as long as the property owner continued to pay all his taxes; but the land and buildings would belong to China!

This is what our own Government has just done to us and it is the single most vile act of betrayal in the history of human existence.

-------------

In early February nine U.S. States began the process of re-asserting their Sovereignty pursuant to the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the US Constitution; declaring null and void any actions by Congress that violated the Constitution.

At the time, I wrote about those state efforts (Here) and wondered why so many states were taking-up such an arcane issue in such a seemingly urgent fashion. I guess now, we know why.

The states were obviously privy to what the feds were planning to do with granting Eminent Domain to China. The states took action to make certain the feds couldn't give away cities or the states themselves!

This situation is going to get VERY ugly, VERY fast as one sovereign power (the feds) try to literally give away the land of other sovereign powers, (the states). This is the type of thing that starts Civil War.

Our present federal government makes the treachery and betrayal of Benedict Arnold look like child's play. Does anyone have any information on this?

****************

BLOOMBERG LINK: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601009&sid=a_dsDz145J_A#


China Needs U.S. Guarantees for Treasuries, Yu Says (Update2)

By Belinda Cao and Judy Chen

Feb. 11 (Bloomberg) -- China should seek guarantees that its $682 billion holdings of U.S. government debt won’t be eroded by “reckless policies,” said Yu Yongding, a former adviser to the central bank.

The U.S. “should make the Chinese feel confident that the value of the assets at least will not be eroded in a significant way,” Yu, who now heads the World Economics and Politics Institute at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said in response to e-mailed questions yesterday from Beijing. He declined to elaborate on the assurances needed by China, the biggest foreign holder of U.S. government debt.

Benchmark 10-year Treasury yields climbed above 3 percent this week on speculation the government will increase borrowing as President Barack Obama pushes his $838 billion stimulus package through Congress. Premier Wen Jiabao said last month his government’s strategy for investing would focus on safeguarding the value of China’s $1.95 trillion foreign reserves.

China may voice its concerns over U.S. government finances and the potential for a weaker dollar when Secretary of State Hillary Clinton visits China on Feb. 20, according to He Zhicheng, an economist at Agricultural Bank of China, the nation’s third-largest lender by assets. A People’s Bank of China official, who didn’t wish to be identified, declined to comment on the telephone.

Clinton Talks

“In talks with Clinton, China will ask for a guarantee that the U.S. will support the dollar’s exchange rate and make sure China’s dollar-denominated assets are safe,” said He in Beijing. “That would be one of the prerequisites for more purchases.”

Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Jiang Yu said yesterday that talks with Clinton would cover bilateral relations, the financial crisis and international affairs, according to the Xinhua news agency.

The dollar fell 0.6 percent to 89.96 yen today on concern that the U.S. government’s bank-rescue plan will fail to revive lending. Treasuries declined as investors prepared to bid for a record $21 billion sale of 10-year notes today. The yield on the benchmark 10-year note rose three basis points to 2.83 percent.

Currency Reserves

“These comments are some sort of a threat but of course China can never get such a guarantee,” said Thomas Harr, a currency strategist at Standard Chartered Plc in Singapore. The U.S. may assure China that it will clean up the financial system and that it “won’t push for a weaker dollar but they can’t promise not to increase the fiscal deficit,” he said.

U.S. government bonds returned 14 percent last year including price gains and reinvested interest, the most since rallying 18.5 percent in 1995, according to indexes compiled by Merrill Lynch & Co. Concern that the flood of bonds would overwhelm demand caused Treasuries to lose 3.08 percent in January, the steepest drop in almost five years, Merrill data show.

China’s loss of more than $5 billion from investing $10.5 billion of its reserves in New York-based Blackstone Group LP, Morgan Stanley and TPG Inc. since mid-2007 may increase its demand for the relative safety of Treasuries.

“The government will be a net buyer of Treasuries in the short term because there’s no sign they have changed their strategy,” said Zhang Ming, secretary general of the international finance research center at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences in Beijing. “But personally, I don’t think we should increase holdings because the medium- and long-term risks are quite high.”

Fed Buying

Bill Gross, co-chief investment officer of Pacific Investment Management Co., said on Feb. 5 the Federal Reserve will have to buy Treasuries to curb yields as debt sales increase. Fed officials said Jan. 28 they were “prepared” to buy longer-term Treasuries.

“The biggest concern for China to continue buying U.S. Treasuries is that if Obama’s stimulus doesn’t work out as expected, the Fed may have to print money to cover the deficit,” said Shen Jianguang, a Hong Kong-based economist at China International Capital Corp., partly owned by Morgan Stanley. “That will cause a dollar slump.”

China’s foreign-exchange reserves grew about $40 billion in the fourth quarter, the least since mid-2004, as an end to yuan appreciation since July prompted investors to pull money out.

The world’s third-biggest economy grew 6.8 percent in the fourth quarter, the slowest pace in seven years. Policy makers announced a 4 trillion yuan ($585 billion) economic stimulus plan in November to spur domestic demand.

Linking Disputes

Yu said China has no plans to channel its reserves toward stimulating its own economy because its trade surplus is sufficient to fund any import needs. China’s trade surplus was $39 billion in January.

China “should diversify its reserves away from U.S. Treasuries if the value of China’s foreign-exchange reserves is in danger of being inflated away by the U.S. government’s pump- priming,” he said.

China may try to link trade and currency policy disputes to its future investment in Treasuries, said Lu Zhengwei, an economist in Shanghai at Industrial Bank Co., a Chinese lender partly owned by a unit of HSBC Holdings Plc.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner accused China on Jan. 22 of “manipulating” the yuan to give an unfair advantage to its exporters. The currency has dropped 0.16 percent this year to 6.8342 per dollar, following a 21 percent gain since a peg against the dollar was abandoned in July 2005.

“China can also use this opportunity to get a promise from the U.S. not to make inappropriate requests on bilateral trade and the Chinese yuan,” Lu said. “We can’t afford more yuan appreciation as the economy is facing a serious slowdown.”

 

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

This was already posted but the OP in the other thread had a different source. I would have to think that Bloomberg would be much more reliable (unless I am thinking of something else). If this is true than I cannot fathom the American people taking it anymore.

 

[Rael]

Sounds like a bogus story. The bloomberg article does not mention anything about eminent domain

 

[Anti Federalist]

This was already posted but the OP in the other thread had a different source. I would have to think that Bloomberg would be much more reliable (unless I am thinking of something else). If this is true than I cannot fathom the American people taking it anymore.

Welcome to "endgame".

I can't see this playing out any other way outside of these options:

1 - Insolvency and complete receivership of all or most US assets.

2 - China refuses to finance any more debt, resulting in nothing left for the fedgov to do but print, baby, print. Hyperinflation and insolvency follows.

3 - Renouncement of the debt. Hyperinflation, insolvency and war follows.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Sounds like a bogus story. The bloomberg article does not mention anything about eminent domain

The first part of the email is from Hal Turner's site, I believe.

Don't need to say any more about that.

But the second part, about China demanding "collateral" for the outstanding debt is a valid story.

It would be safe to assume that would mean some ownership share of hard assets.

 

[satchelmcqueen]

now this i will bring out the guns over for real. if this is true. get ready for all of america to start rioting. this will not be allowed to happen on my property or in my country if i have anything to do with it. ive kept myself out of debt, and i owe nothing to anyone. this is my land. dont mess with it.

 

[qh4dotcom]

Welcome to "endgame".

I can't see this playing out any other way outside of these options:

1 - Insolvency and complete receivership of all or most US assets.

2 - China refuse to finance any more debt, resulting in noting left for the fedgov to do but print, baby, print. Hyperinflation and insolvency follows.

3 - Renouncement of the debt. Hyperinflation, insolvency and war follows.

I wonder what the Obama sheeple would do if they heard their Messiah say he had no other option

 

[Anti Federalist]

I wonder what the Obama sheeple would do if they heard their Messiah say he had no other option

 

[hillbilly123069]

Obama Grants Eminent Domain Rights to China to Secure Debt [UNCONFIRMED]

February 27, 5:11 PM
by Bill Dupray,
DC Republican Examiner
They own us.
(Photo credit Future Atlas)The time for partisan bickering just ended. This is as serious as a heart attack. Obama is going to spend so much money, which he intends to get from China via the sale of government backed bonds, that the Chinese apparently don't think he'll be able to make good on them.

So President Obama gave the Chinese eminent domain rights to American land and businesses as collateral - i.e. we don't pay, they now own America.

From Patriot Room.

Because it looks like our wonderful new administration is granting the Chinese eminent domain as collateral for US debts. Yea you read that right. That means when we can no longer pay for all this massive spending the Chinese can call in the loans and take our land.

The thought that American citizens and businesses could lose their land as a means of payment is downright scary. I highly doubt ANY American citizen would have voted for Obama if they knew this was coming down the pike.
Live Leak has more details.

Sources at the United States Embassy in Beijing China have just CONFIRMED to me that the United States of America has tendered to China a written agreement which grants to the People's Republic of China, an option to exercise Eminent Domain within the USA, as collateral for China's continu More..ed purchase of US Treasury Notes and existing US Currency reserves!

The written agreement was brought to Beijing by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and was formalized and agreed-to during her recent trip to China.

This means that in the event the US Government defaults on its financial obligations to China, the Communist Government of China would be permitted to physically take -- inside the USA -- land, buildings, factories, perhaps even entire cities - to satisfy the financial obligations of the US government.

Put simply, the feds have now actually mortgaged the physical land and property of all citizens and businesses in the United States. They have given to a foreign power, their Constitutional power to "take" all of our property, as actual collateral for continued Chinese funding of US deficit spending and the continued carrying of US national debt.

http://www.examiner.com/x-2304-DC-R...Eminent-Domain-Rights-to-China-to-Secure-Debt

http://www.patriotroom.com/