Federal judge: Carrying a gun is reasonable suspicion of a crime

[chudrockz]

Soooo, LEOs openly carrying create reasonable suspicion of a crime occurring?

Wait, that sounds about right, in all too many cases...

Maybe someone in Anytown, USA should try to do a citizen's arrest of all local law enforcement officers on that basis!

Or for their own safety, maybe not.

 

[seraphson]

I can't find it now but I'm pretty sure there was a court decision from some time ago that said it's not probably cause.

 

[aGameOfThrones]

“The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable, and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the peace.” (Wharton’s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol.2: Judy v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197)

 

[AFPVet]

As a former cop, I can tell you that the WAY that the weapon is carried that may cause suspicion. If Joe Blow is carrying his weapon in a properly secured holster, why would I think anything of it? Conversely, if I see Dude Thug carrying a weapon in his waste band, it's a different story.

 

[kwikrnu]

I have been keeping up with Chris Proescher since he was arrested. I have links to many of the documents on my website. I claim it is the most complete concerning Chris and the unlawful acts of the cops.

http://www.kwikrnuarms.com/christopher_allen_proescher.htm

 

[kwikrnu]

As a former cop, I can tell you that the WAY that the weapon is carried that may cause suspicion. If Joe Blow is carrying his weapon in a properly secured holster, why would I think anything of it? Conversely, if I see Dude Thug carrying a weapon in his waste band, it's a different story.

Profile based on race and looks is despicable. If one can't afford a holster they must be guilty of something...

 

[kwikrnu]

Probably not a bad idea if you are going to open carry, to wear some type of body armor. The cops are more dangerous than the thugs.

I have always received "special" attention from cops when I open carry. I started wearing body armor while carrying and it got worse...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRVgFQ4P1Sw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QScD986-UZE

 

[Ronin Truth]

Being federal judge Duffey is a reasonable suspicion of a fascist tyrant.

 

[ZENemy]

I have always received "special" attention from cops when I open carry. I started wearing body armor while carrying and it got worse...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRVgFQ4P1Sw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QScD986-UZE

Great videos.

 

[AFPVet]

Profile based on race and looks is despicable. If one can't afford a holster they must be guilty of something...

It's negligent carry of a firearm. Holster it! If you can't afford a $20 holster, but can afford a $500 gun, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[aGameOfThrones]

It's negligent carry of a firearm. Holster it! If you can't afford a $20 holster, but can afford a $500 gun, I don't know what to tell you.

But is not having a holster suspicion that a crime is about to be committed and thus grounds for arrest?

 

[Ronin Truth]

It's negligent carry of a firearm. Holster it! If you can't afford a $20 holster, but can afford a $500 gun, I don't know what to tell you.

You can go a long way with a smile. You can go a lot farther with a smile and a gun. -- Al Capone

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Fast forward to Federal judge William S. Duffey Jr. who made the inane decision that while the arresting officers were wrong in arresting Proescher (you know, because he didn’t break any laws) that carrying a pistol openly constitutes reasonable suspicion of a crime, which authorizes officers to detain the person who is carrying and as such the officers acted properly.

Actually, this is awesome. There will be a lot of cops arresting cops. I hope all those armed standoffs don't result in a ton of deaths.

 

[AFPVet]

But is not having a holster suspicion that a crime is about to be committed and thus grounds for arrest?

Hell no! It's just one of my pet peeves. If you haven't committed a crime (there must be a victim), I don't care. If a cop stopped me while I was in plain clothes with my weapon in a secured holster, I would be PISSED!

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Yes, of course Judge Dunce, because criminals always open carry.

The Just Us system not only has disdain for you--they also have no common sense.

 

[devil21]

It's a District Court ruling so it has no impact on any other case and is not precedent. If the plaintiff decides to appeal, THEN whatever the appeals court ruling is would be considered precedent for future federal cases. A wrong ruling, yes, and the judge knows it's the wrong ruling, but at least it has no legal bearing outside of that particular case. Looks to me like a strategic ruling to prevent the case from moving forward but also to prevent the plaintiff from appealing.

eta: After reading the judge's ruling, Georgia is a Stop-and-Identify state so the cop can ask for ID. I posted about open carry related to Stop and ID in this thread and the content is worth a repost here. It is important to know if your state is a stop and ID state before you open carry!!!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ls-Open-Carry-in-a-Walmart&highlight=identify

It is really important for those that open carry to know if they live in Stop and Identify states and the state laws about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes (The Detention section is the most pertinent since the cop has detained you because of your gun)

Missouri is listed as a stop and identify state so a cop asking for your ID without direct suspicion of a crime is generally acceptable under state law. The other videos that you see where the open carrier refuses to show ID are usually in states without stop and identify laws and therefore the cop has no legal authority to check your ID solely on basis of open carrying (if open carry is legal in that state).

The reasons for the ID checks are to run the person through NCIC to check for felony convictions or other notations that would make possession of the gun a criminal offense, thus leading to seizure of the gun and arrest of the carrier. Of course it's also a check for warrants and other "Wanted" notations unrelated to the open carry.

In my state, there is no stop and ID law and open carry is 100% legal so I would handle that same situation differently than someone in Missouri.

 

[Occam's Banana]

Walking down the street? Reasonable suspicion of a crime ... (you might be going to or coming from a crime scene) ...

Breathing? Reasonable suspicion of a crime ... (breathing supplies oxygen to the brain, which is used to decide to commit a crime) ...

Carrying a gun while walking down the street and breathing?? Well, now you're just rubbing their faces in it!!

 

[JK/SEA]

It's negligent carry of a firearm. Holster it! If you can't afford a $20 holster, but can afford a $500 gun, I don't know what to tell you.

what if its a 20$ gun and a 500$ holster?

 

[AFPVet]

what if its a 20$ gun and a 500$ holster?

ROFLMAO

 

[jtap]

It's a District Court ruling so it has no impact on any other case and is not precedent. If the plaintiff decides to appeal, THEN whatever the appeals court ruling is would be considered precedent for future federal cases. A wrong ruling, yes, and the judge knows it's the wrong ruling, but at least it has no legal bearing outside of that particular case. Looks to me like a strategic ruling to prevent the case from moving forward but also to prevent the plaintiff from appealing.

eta: After reading the judge's ruling, Georgia is a Stop-and-Identify state so the cop can ask for ID. I posted about open carry related to Stop and ID in this thread and the content is worth a repost here. It is important to know if your state is a stop and ID state before you open carry!!!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ls-Open-Carry-in-a-Walmart&highlight=identify

way too many un-free states in that picture on wikipedia. thanks for the info no matter how depressing.