FBI 'raided' Mar-a-Lago

[dannno]

Trump is no longer president, so he no longer has the authority to declassify anything. So he would have to claim that he declassified them when he was president. But he could just lie about that, unless declassifying things involves more than just some former president claiming that he declassified things back when he was president without telling anyone.

He declassified them while he was President. The President doesn't have to tell anybody. For example, if they are negotiating with a foreign leader, they may have to discuss classified information. For that purpose, the information is temporarily declassified so that he can discuss it with the foreign leader. Then it is reclassified for all intents and purposes. That all happens in the President's noggin, and nobody else needs to know. That is in the Constitution.

I'm not really sure I've heard a strong argument for having information in the government classified in the first place. I could be persuaded otherwise, but I also like the idea that the government be fully transparent.

So you may be arguing with the wrong person.

 

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

He declassified them while he was President. The President doesn't have to tell anybody. For example, if they are negotiating with a foreign leader, they may have to discuss classified information. For that purpose, the information is temporarily declassified so that he can discuss it with the foreign leader. Then it is reclassified for all intents and purposes. That all happens in the President's noggin, and nobody else needs to know. That is in the Constitution.

I'm not really sure I've heard a strong argument for having information in the government classified in the first place. I could be persuaded otherwise, but I also like the idea that the government be fully transparent.

So you may be arguing with the wrong person.

There is a video in this thread that has Robert Barnes the attorney in it and he states that Trump can declassify documents.

 

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

@danno go to the 7:45 mark.[video]https://odysee.com/@MichaelMalice:6/your-welcome-with-michael-malice-220:9[/video]

 

[dannno]

There is a video in this thread that has Robert Barnes the attorney in it and he states that Trump can declassify documents.

Kash Patel said the same thing I said - what I like to call the Michael Scott "I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!!" theory on the President declassifying documents. He can literally just stand over a bunch of documents and declassify them, without doing anything else. He doesn't have to tell anybody, he doesn't have to re-label anything.

These people attacking Trump are trying to promote the idea that un-elected bureaucrats have more power over classification than the duly elected President.

 

[Invisible Man]

He declassified them while he was President. The President doesn't have to tell anybody.

Then how are people supposed to know whether or not any given document is classified?

For example, if they are negotiating with a foreign leader, they may have to discuss classified information. For that purpose, the information is temporarily declassified so that he can discuss it with the foreign leader. Then it is reclassified for all intents and purposes. That all happens in the President's noggin, and nobody else needs to know. That is in the Constitution.

But that's not what you're saying happened here is it?

And if that is what happened, and these documents, as you just said, got re-classified, then that would mean that they were still classified after Trump left office, when he kept them in his home and was no longer president.

I'm not really sure I've heard a strong argument for having information in the government classified in the first place. I could be persuaded otherwise, but I also like the idea that the government be fully transparent.

But that's not what you've been saying this whole time.

 

[fcreature]

If he declassifies something and doesn't tell anyone, is it declassified?

Yes, absolutely.

Please don't take this response to be an agreement of your premise. I think it's very likely some / many / all of the documents seized were declassified either in writing or otherwise witnessed.

Anyway, the issue of classification is just a red-herring and a way to justify the usage of a general warrant.

If it were truly about classified documents, why seize so many documents with no classification markings? This is the deep state at work.

 

[fcreature]

And if that is what happened, and these documents, as you just said, got re-classified, then that would mean that they were still classified after Trump left office, when he kept them in his home and was no longer president.

The Constitution doesn't take very kindly to ex post facto "crimes"... would love to see them run with kind of argument. Would expose them even more.

 

[Invisible Man]

The Constitution doesn't take very kindly to ex post facto "crimes"... would love to see them run with kind of argument. Would expose them even more.

This wouldn't be an ex post facto crime.

But which part of the Constitution are you referring to?

 

[fcreature]

This wouldn't be an ex post facto crime.

So let me get this straight.

Taking documents that are not classified and already in the possession of someone, then classifying them and sending the police to arrest anyone who is already in possession of them, is not creating a crime out of a legal action previously committed?

Weird...

Actions like these were deep grievances of our founding fathers. The United States has a rich history of rejecting such nonsense.

 

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

President Trump declassified a number of documents related to the Deep State’s attempted coup of his administration only days before he left office. More than a foot-high pile of documents were declassified by President Trump at this time. The Deep State FBI reportedly held on to these documents and would not release them up to that time. This was reported by Lou Dobbs on FOX Business on January 14, 2021. (Note that The Gateway Pundit was noted in this segment as well for its reporting on the Jan 6 Capitol protests where we already knew that there were bad actors involved.)
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/08/exclusive-trump-rico-case-clinton-appointed-judge-allowed-government-insert-trump-rico-case-place-comey-mccabe-strzok-page-clinesmith/

 

[dannno]

Then how are people supposed to know whether or not any given document is classified?

Check the classification. Then if you are still unsure, ask the President.

But that's not what you're saying happened here is it?

No, I'm using it as an example of why the President has complete discretion over classification, period, according to the Constitution, and there is no other entity that has more power in this particular arena.

But that's not what you've been saying this whole time.

My point is I'm arguing against people who seem believe that the government and classified documents are some sacred institution. I'm just letting you know I don't feel that way, but I'm still right about the law, and you aren't.

 

[Mach]

What it comes down to is, Trump and some of his people, including Kash Patel (Patel has joined the board of directors for the former president’s media company, Trump Media & Technology Group), were going to publish info on declassified documents so the public could easily see what was really going on during all of those past "investigations" etc... then the FBI stepped in and made sure that didn't happen.


https://www.justsecurity.org/82723/...n-to-publicly-release-declassified-documents/

 

[Invisible Man]

Check the classification. Then if you are still unsure, ask the President.

The current president, right? Not a former one.

 

[acptulsa]

What it comes down to is, Trump and some of his people, including Kash Patel (Patel has joined the board of directors for the former president’s media company, Trump Media & Technology Group), were going to publish info on declassified documents so the public could easily see what was really going on during all of those past "investigations" etc... then the FBI stepped in and made sure that didn't happen.


https://www.justsecurity.org/82723/...n-to-publicly-release-declassified-documents/

That would certainly play well in Peoria. One wonders why Chessmaster Trump didn't come right out and say it, if it were true.

One would also wonder why we haven't seen one page of it in nineteen months. If you're going to do something like that, procrastination just gives your enemies time to do what was allegedly done--devise a strategy to stop you, and carry it out. I can't imagine a reason to delay, unless one were less interested in turning up the heat and boiling off the swamp, and more interested in convincing someone to pay you not to do it.

 

[Invisible Man]

Taking documents that are not classified and already in the possession of someone, then classifying them and sending the police to arrest anyone who is already in possession of them, is not creating a crime out of a legal action previously committed?

Huh?

Are you trying to pretend that you're saying the same thing dannno said in the post I was replying to?

 

[fcreature]

My point is I'm arguing against people who seem believe that the government and classified documents are some sacred institution. I'm just letting you know I don't feel that way, but I'm still right about the law, and you aren't.

Classification is an abusive tool used to protect those in power and to weaponize information against the public.

It's really weird seeing libertarians argue that unelected bureaucrats can usurp the power of the people by denying the executive branch's sole authority over this issue. Despite any problems folks here have with the Orange Man, he spent 4 years declassifying and trying to get that declassified material released to the public - information that has been weaponized against them.

Unfortunately he failed in doing so, and now the deep state intends on completing the goal of making an example out of the man. The people will be made to understand that they do not have permission to form a government challenging the status quo.

 

[fcreature]

Are you trying to pretend that you're saying the same thing dannno said in the post I was replying to?

Huh?

Are you going to answer the question?

 

[Invisible Man]

Huh?

Are you going to answer the question?

I didn't intend to, since it had nothing to do with anything we were talking about.

But to answer it, yes of course the story you made up would be creating a crime out of a legal action previously committed.

 

[Invisible Man]

denying the executive branch's sole authority over this issue.

Can you quote any libertarians denying that?

Despite any problems folks here have with the Orange Man, he spent 4 years declassifying and trying to get that declassified material released to the public

Riiiiiiiiighht.

 

[acptulsa]

It's really weird seeing libertarians argue that unelected bureaucrats can usurp the power of the people by denying the executive branch's sole authority over this issue.

I dare you to come up with a single quote from this thread that could make that charge stick, that could breathe life into that strawman. There is a process, and it's necessary. You and certain others want everyone to believe Trump can change engine oil without taking out the drain plug, can make an omelet without bothering to break an egg.

I hope you'll pardon me for being dubious that the right to cook an omelet means one can wave their hands over three eggs, and get one without so much as touching a whisk.

Despite any problems folks here have with the Orange Man, he spent 4 years declassifying and trying to get that declassified material released to the public - information that has been weaponized against them.

Unfortunately he failed in doing so...

Why? What kept him?

I still say the gaping hole in this theory is, there's no possible reason why not one single page came out, not one hint was given that they might come out, except that the person holding all this lovely stuff was, like a blackmailer, still taking bids for his silence.

I am so sick of hearing all about how our beloved high-energy go-getter Alpha woulda and was a gonna, but got stopped. He could have done it in a seventeen part monthly serial by now.