Father sentenced to life in prison for 'murder' after daughter dies following MMR vaccine

So you're too stupid or lazy to do your own research, I guess? Even though I told you that this has already been addressed about 25 times in these forums, and it has NOTHING to do with Shaken Baby syndrome...you gave me a neg because I refused to go look it up for you yet again.

And called me a troll, while you are the one trying violently to take the topic in another direction.


And now you're going on about mercury, another unrelated topic that's been debunked even more often. Strawmen-R-Us.


One thing we can agree on - the school system in America certainly can produce absolute idiots these days.

Wow, you lack all reading comprehension skills all the while insulting any one who disagrees with you by calling them stupid, uneducated, telling them to STFU, and many more abuses. I guess that is all you can resort to when you don't have a leg to stand upon. This thread is related to vaccines and your refusal to answer any of my questions should make it clear for everyone your true intentions. I have seen most of these 26 threads you speak of and they do as good of a job addressing my valid questions as you have done with your posts in this thread.

I don't know how to further simplify my questions for you, but even a five year old should be able to understand the following. Is Mercury a poison? If so, why was it ever allowed in vaccines? Why were there peer reviewed "scientific" studies claiming mercury to be a safe preservative in vaccines? Did anyone of the scientists ever get punished for lying to the people? Did your beloved vaccines at any time contain AIDS and cancer?

As far as education or mental aptitude is concerned, please continue posting cause you are doing one hell of a job in showcasing your higher intellect.

By the way, I neg repped you for insulting other forum members since you seem to have immunity from the moderators on your repulsive behavior.
 
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The History of Health
(In Chronological Order)

This page: 540 AD - 1945
1946 - 1977
1978 - 1994

This is a much abbreviated form of the VERY extensive chronological chart of the history of mankind, as compiled by Val Valerian at www.trufax.org. Please visit his website for the full history.

Schools and universities don't teach us the history of the things which REALLY affect our lives, such as health. So I have put this together as a research tool.

Where possible, references are given. However, this type of information is not always readily available. Therefore, flexibility was allowed in compiling this history. Please don't get upset if something was left out or shouldn't have been included or you don't believe it happened. Do some research and come up with your own chronological chart!!!

I trust you will find the following to be interesting. If you do, please pass this information on to others (especially those who don't have access to the net).

_____________________________________________________

http://www.relfe.com/history_1.html
 
Wow, you lack all reading comprehension skills.


Says a guy who demands answers that have been provided several times, refuses to simply look to see what's already been posted about it and go forward from there, and is absolutely bent on having an off-topic conversation.

You're either too stupid or too lazy to search the forums to get the answers the claims you insist has never, ever been addressed. If you're not, go find one of the discussions we've had on those topics, bump it up, and start by addressing some of the answers that we've already supplied multiple times.
 
Can anyone verify this story?

Bueller?

I was about to say exactly this.


So. Can anyone verify the OP story?


The OP story cannot even verify itself.

It all started back in May of 2012 when the child in question, who is being referred to as Amy in news reports, developed a strange lump on the back of her head just one day after receiving the MMR vaccine. Prior to the vaccine, little Amy was healthy and lump-free. Amy's father Darryl took her to the local hospital to have the lump checked out but was unable to provide answers as to how it formed, which was the beginning of his subsequent horrors.

Amy was a healthy, happy, mischievous toddler until she received her MMR vaccine in May 2012. Within days, Darryl, Amy’s father, noticed a lump on the back of Amy’s head. The lump was obviously causing her some discomfort Darryl so when her mother returned home from work he took Amy to the local hospital.



When asked how she was injured, Darryl was unable to account for the lump but thought that the family’s puppy may have knocked Amy over. Later it appeared that the injury might have happened when Amy had banged her head on a coffee table whilst being changed at her grandma’s house.

The OP story implies that no one had any alternate explanation for these injuries. In fact, the bruise on the thigh looked like a bite mark to the doctor (feasible; there were other children and a puppy in the home), and the middle fall was described as the child slipping while the father was taking her out of the tub, to the point she took in water and then spat it up, so this was not a matter of a perfectly 100% healthy child that nothing else happened to. Is it a series of preposterous overreactions by the authorities, as written? Sure. But there are more holes in this story than in "official stories" that are torn apart as total bunk on this forum with regularity.
 
By the way, I neg repped you for insulting other forum members since you seem to have immunity from the moderators on your repulsive behavior.
No one has immunity from the Usage Guidelines - so let's please follow them and keep things civil.

One point that I would like to make too, however is that it would be ideal if unresolvable debates be contained to a limited area, such as one master debate thread, similar to how we have done the campaign evaluation. Regardless, lets keep things civil and orderly.

Thank you.
 
That just indicates that there's no such thing as honesty in the anti-vax movement. "We just want science to prove that vaccines aren't causing any of this even though we have absolutely no evidence that it even happens." Not to mention that anything they do prove is immediately met with cries of "The studies were paid for by big pharma! Profit! Government! Conspiracy!"

You people have no interest in being satisfied that vaccines are safe. You just want to make noise.

And remember, DonnaY's original post isn't about that in the slightest. The MMR isn't even typically administered until about 12 months. But these "symptoms" which can be mistaken for SBS are present at birth and before. But you and yours are going to cling to the vaccine link now. DonnaY's mission is accomplished - she's managed to make her evil lies into a truth.

People are now literally more ignorant than they were before, thanks to her tireless efforts.

As for the rest, again - if vaccines were causing this via some bizarre vitamin-sicking phenomenon we would expect to also see children present with lesser degrees of the nutritional deficiencies discussed. But we don't.

The safety of vaccines has been documented in thousands of different studies, but the crazies won't ever be satisfied. They are now resorting to simply making stories up.

Like this one, which, I will again point out - has absolutely zero corroboration anywhere that we can find. But that doesn't matter. You still want science to prove that vaccines were not related to a case that doesn't even exist.

Un-fucking-real.

You posted research and said there could be no correlation between vaccines and newborns. I asked were any of the mothers vaccinated prior to birth and how old were the newborns as that could include some that are vaccinated since they receive vaccines in the first three days. For this you deflected and ignored my questions, called me names, and stated my true intentions are to make noise? Would this be an example of your stellar debate skills?

The safety of vaccines is the crux of the problem and per your own admission they are not without serious repercussions. Do you believe if you sling enough crap at people you will come out the intellectual superior you seem to think yourself to be?

As for the case in the OP, you have flown so far afield in your accusations and nasty commentary that my discussion on the matter is not directed at the point being made in the OP which unless I knew the person I wouldn't take a position one way or another on the matter. My discussion has been directed at the inane comments you have been making in your attempt to badmouth those who disagree with you
 
One way to identify a disingenuous person is to look at how they dodge simple questions and play mental gymnastics instead of answering simple questions.
 
You disgust me with your willingness to not look at anything other than what you believe.


You realize that Alan Yourko admitted he slammed the baby down because it had been crying for 3 days straight, right? And the baby had broken ribs that the anti-vaxxers now claim were there at birth, yet oddly enough didn't show up on any of the 3 x-rays the baby had in the previous visits to the hospital.

He was convicted ( for the 7th violent crime on his record), but won on appeal not on the grounds that he didn't abuse the baby, but on the grounds that the admittedly incompetent medical examiner didn't prove the injuries actually killed the baby.



It is almost unfathomable to me that people could use the fact that a man who was known to be violent could beat his wife's child to death (Yuorko was in prison for another crime when the baby was conceived) as a way of discouraging parents from vaccinating their children, but nothing is too bad or evil for the anti-vaccination liars to exploit.

This is exactly what I meant when I said you people are some of the most vile entities on the face of the earth. Only a monster could use another monster in defense of killing babies.


Wait a minute- I disgust YOU.

YOU are the friction' name calling banshee that looks at nothing but hate reports and blasts them as truth.

I was just putting up different perspectives on different cases, AS I WAS ASKED TO, and the case in question was attended by AN MD THAT IS AN EXPERT IN THE FIELD OF VACCINATIONS. But you don't want any science that might reinterpret your version of science. That might get in the way of all your Boo-hoo hatred and self righteousness and we can't have that now, can we?
 
You posted research and said there could be no correlation between vaccines and newborns. I asked were any of the mothers vaccinated prior to birth and how old were the newborns as that could include some that are vaccinated since they receive vaccines in the first three days. For this you deflected and ignored my questions, called me names, and stated my true intentions are to make noise? Would this be an example of your stellar debate skills?

The safety of vaccines is the crux of the problem and per your own admission they are not without serious repercussions. Do you believe if you sling enough crap at people you will come out the intellectual superior you seem to think yourself to be?

As for the case in the OP, you have flown so far afield in your accusations and nasty commentary that my discussion on the matter is not directed at the point being made in the OP which unless I knew the person I wouldn't take a position one way or another on the matter. My discussion has been directed at the inane comments you have been making in your attempt to badmouth those who disagree with you

This and +rep!!
 
erowe1;5342697]Depth and breadth of knowledge are relative. Everyone's knowledge can stand to be deeper and broader.

It's fair to have a healthy skepticism of formal education in general. But the education of medical doctors is a lot better than that of most others.

They start out as the very best students, who are capable scientists on their own right before they even get admitted into med school. While they're there, they spend 80 hours a week on their studies for an additional 4 years. I know a lot of PhDs, including many who are outstanding scholars with serious work ethics. But I don't know any who, week-after-week, for the duration of their doctoral studies, worked as long and hard every week as those in med school did. All med school students have to take a doctoral level course in immunology, where the kinds of questions they have to be able to answer are like the ones listed here. You're certainly right that specialists go well beyond this. But it's wrong to say that the level of knowledge a general practitioner has about vaccines is less than zero, or even less than that of any given highly knowledgable non-medical doctor. Your own knowledge may exceed the level of those who can answer questions like those. Mine certainly doesn't. Furthermore, when pediatricians and OB/GYN's vaccinate kids, the vaccines they give are limited to a small number about which they know a great deal, and about which they had to learn more beyond med school in 3 years of residency, where they continued to put in 80-hour weeks, and had to pass boards that tested their knowledge of the specific aspects of immunology about which they would be expected to have specialized knowledge as pediatricians. They don't need to have an impossible breadth and depth of knowledge, they just need knowledge about something that is a regular, daily, part of their jobs.

The number one major being accepted to med school is the music major, not science majors. This is because arts connect the brain- nevertheless to assume that med students start out as brilliant scientists is erroneous.

Also, no medical student ever learns about health, diets, what common foods do for the body etc. They are never schooled in prevention. Because of this the common MD has ZIP knowledge on real health and what keeps the body healthy. They know about medications but not cures.
 
It's fair to have a healthy skepticism of formal education in general. But the education of medical doctors is a lot better than that of most others.

That says nothing of sufficiency. If we are going to buy a house in partnership, you and I and become slum lords and you have 100x as much money than I, but I have only 100 dollars, the fact will avail us nothing in the purchase of a $250K property.

They start out as the very best students, who are capable scientists on their own right before they even get admitted into med school.

Perhaps a necessary condition, but again, not sufficient. The best students who at the time were "capable scientists" of the middle ages used to try things like sewing the legs of dead Moors to the amputated stumps of white men. The best was still not good enough. And so it remains along many, many lines of endeavor.

But I don't know any who, week-after-week, for the duration of their doctoral studies, worked as long and hard every week as those in med school did.


Perhaps, but that proves nothing.

But it's wrong to say that the level of knowledge a general practitioner has about vaccines is less than zero

Not if what they are taught is fundamentally flawed in some truly significant manner, and I submit that it is. The immune system of a human being is a biochemical labyrinth of which I suspect we know just enough to be dangerous. The body of knowledge grows to be sure, but we are still a very long way from understanding it in sufficient fashion, much less as gestalt. You may or may not understand the challenges posed by such complex systems, but I certainly do from several standpoints. Add to that the enormous difficulties in making observations at the molecular level and the precariousness of our body of knowledge becomes ever the more pronounced.

I have a friend who works at NIH in DC. Lets call him Ralph, mainly because that is his name. He, too, is a PhD scientist working on immunological research and he well on board with the state of research and so forth. Even he warns against getting too cozy and confident in our current state of knowledge. He points out that there are levels of understanding, a notion with which I completely agree and understand. You may have 90% of a mechanism's function figured out. That does not mean you understand it because what remains in the remaining 10%, once deciphered, could alter your current understanding in ways you cannot now imagine. Just look at the deal with so-called "junk" DNA, which makes up the great majority of your genetic code. It was pronounced with great knowing that this DNA had no purpose - that it was nothing more than evolutionary remnants of the billions of mutative dead-ends. I clearly recall when this bombastic and hubris laden announcement was made shaking my head and thinking how preposterous these people are who make such proclamations because the admitted truth was that they had absolutely no idea how the DNA got there and what, if any, purpose it might serve. It is not coming to light that the junk DNA appears to serve among other possible purposes that of enabling very rapid mutation in the face of environmental changes that threaten extinction.

So much for what we "know".

or even less than that of any given highly knowledgable non-medical doctor.

Ralph is not an MD so far as I know - never asked, actually - but I doubt there are more GP than you could count on your fingers and toes in the USA who know 10% of what he does. I could be wrong, but doubt it. I don't think Ralph is quite a true genius, but he is very close to it. I always feel stupid around him in a way. :)

Furthermore, when pediatricians and OB/GYN's vaccinate kids, the vaccines they give are limited to a small number about which they know a great deal

How do you know this to be true? That aside, I was referring specifically to GPs who vaccinate a whole shitload more children than do pediatricians. Pediatricians usually treat those who are already ill. Most parents take their children to a GP for routine examinations and procedures. My GP, for instance, a lovely woman and very capable, always has kids in for vaccines - nearly every time I'm there I strike up conversations with parents because I love kids and miss my own girls, so I make a horrible pest of myself and usually ask what's up and they often tell me they are in for vaccines. I strain to hold my tongue with universal success, but I admit my skin crawls and when I see a mashably cute little baby it is difficult to think of what the parent is risking. But it ain't my business, so I zip it.

Once again, I am not saying doctors are not good folks and dedicated and smart. I am saying that immunology is a VERY far from perfect science and the use of vaccines is based on that almost certainly flawed craft. The correlation between certain vaccines and subsequent health issues appears far too strong to me. Even if the vaccine itself is not a causative agent, it may be a cofactor. There could be biochemical circumstances in a give individual of which we are not even aware, much less understand, that play roles in whether a child who is vaccinated become autistic, for example. The combination of the vaccine and these factors, whether they be predispositions, biochemical transient states, or what have you. We just do not know. There could be chemicals that operate on such miniscule volumes that we may never discover them. What if a vaccine acts as a catalyst in come cases? That is not really a solid cause, but a cofactor. The possibilities are nearly endless and we seem to be only scratching the surface.

I have a lot of faith in science for many sorts of endeavors, but on many of the path of inquiry we really don't yet know shit.
 
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You posted research and said there could be no correlation between vaccines and newborns.

No I didn't. I said the fact that the signs were seen in unborn babies meant it wasn't the vaccines causing the damage. Then you went off into conspiracy-land, claiming that maybe it was because the mothers were vaccinated that created the problems - something that has not ever been alleged before.

The people that are claiming that vaccines cause the injuries that resemble SBS are claiming that the vaccines given to infants create instant vitamin deficiencies, the result of which are the diseases commonly known as rickets and scurvy. Again, these diseases are practically unknown in America. There contention that the vaccines cause only the very worst cases of it, the cases that cause babies to die, while not producing any patients presenting with lesser symptoms does not make any sense.

Since it doesn't actually happen, the hypothesis that maybe it's the side effect of a second generation vaccine that caused it is not an issue.

The fact that babies exhibit these symptoms before ever having a single vaccine also serves to indicate that the vaccines aren't responsible.

Asserting that maybe the mother's vaccines caused it is grasping at straws at this point. And it only goes to prove my point, which is that the anti-vaxxers will never be satisfied. More people have allergic reactions to bees and aspirin than vaccines, with worse side effects. The chances of getting hurt while riding in a car are immensely greater than having an allergic reaction to a vaccine. Most importantly, the odds of catching a disease and dying dramatically decrease when children are vaccinated. And even when the vaccinated kids get the disease, it is almost always from an unvaccinated patient.

Vaccines are one of the miracles of modern medicine, and people who walk around innocently asserting that the scientists need to prove that vaccines don't cause toenail fungus or obesity in senior citizens are beyond reasoning with.

Continuing to blame everything and anything on vaccines only wastes research time and money, especially since the anti-vaxxers have more then proved that there is absolutely no evidence they will actually accept. If there were, we would not be having this discussion.
 
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The number one major being accepted to med school is the music major, not science majors.

What's your source for this?

After you kept posting that hoax about the Botha speech, I'm skeptical.
 
Obviously DonnaY would appear from under the bridge to cheer an opinion piece. There is no room for facts in her position, that's for sure.

Damn woman, who the hell pissed in your cornflakes to get you this pumped up with bile?

Do as you see fit, but it seems to me this much anger going on for this much time can't be very satisfying... or healthy.

People have different points of view. You seem to want to convince everyone that yours is right and theirs wrong. Why? I'm just trying to have a rational exchange and you appear to be going out of your way to nuke everyone who is not in agreement with your views.

I sure hope you get to feeling better.
 
Going back over the child murders in the Guardian and BBC News all the way back to 2002 has produced exactly 1 case of a parent getting a life sentence for a shaken baby murder. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cambridgeshire/8705139.stm

May of 2010, the baby was 6 weeks old, which would rule out the MMR connection.

Just another lie from the proselytizing anti-vaxxers. But I'm not allowed to openly hate them? Fuck that.
 
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