Farming, subsidies, etc..

C

christagious

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This weekend some of my family will be getting together.

I live in Ohio and my aunt and uncle own a dairy farm. I'm not sure how they stand on subsidies because quite frankly, I don't understand the issue at all, but I'm going to assume that most farmers support farm subsidies, which would explain Huck's victory last night.

My aunt and uncle are pretty involved in local politics, my aunt is a member of Daughters of the American Revolution, etc. So they care about the country. How can I convert them to supporting Ron Paul in the case that they possibly support subsidies?

Give me some ideas, I need to be quite convincing (which shouldn't be too hard because Ron Paul's stance on most issues is pretty bulletproof)
 
This may be a case of the blind leading the blind but here we go anyway.

Ron Paul supports his stance on subsidies by arguing that the federal government is hurting the farmers by trying to help them. From what I understand of the issue (which isnt a lot) the federal subsidie program keeps prices artificially low. The free market would allow for more fluctuations. This can be both good and bad, however would you rather take the chance of making less for a good chance of making more, or would you rather be locked into mediocrity and stagnation?

From what I understand, the subsidies arent really helping that much anyway.
 
Subsidies wind up going (largely) to ADM. The farmers SEE the check they get from Uncle Sugar. What they don't see is the money that they then have to pay in increased taxes, decreased value of their savings, etc.
 
If only I could convince Congress of the cultural and social benefit of "working-from-home-computer-programmer" and get similar subsidies. Alas, I don't think it will happen.
 
christagious said:
I only have until tomorrow to convert


help please
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Tell them that food and farming are going to be the biggest, most important part of the economy in the near future. With bio-fuels, the exploding world population, and third world countries developing first world appetites, there is no question about it.

Farmers could profit, and will gain power from this, but only if the government stays out! Pitiful government subsidies do not make up for all of the profits lost to the government...

Government "help" has only hurt farmers in the past, but in the near future, it will really hurt them!

Don't know if that will work on them though...let us know if anything does work.
 
Here is the view of Ron Paul. Let the market decide. If you can't make money being a dairy farmer or any other type of farmer than too bad. If theres money to be made then it will be made. There is no point in subsidizing a business. If they are going to make money than they can do it the way every one else does. I have actually talked to a farmer's son on the issue and I told him blankly that there is no point in subsidizing his farming. I told him that if he is going to lose money than he should try a different trade. I really think you should be rather to the point about this.
 
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This is the same as trying to convince welfare mothers to give up their checks and go get a job. If they did it they would stand to make more money and probably live a better life, but it would also require more personal responsibility and risk on their part. The welfare state bribes certain groups of people for their support by making them dependent on government programs. Our only hope of convincing these people is that they are smart enough to realize that the country as a whole faces big problems that are much larger than their own personal situation. If the country goes broke so does everyone in it, regardless of what government programs they are set to receive.
 
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most farmers support farm subsidies
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I am against farm subsidies and I'm sure most if not all libertarians are as well. If the farming sector gets a handout, why not, say, the manufacturing sector?

Government should not give hand-outs to businesses just as government should not plunder businesses with sky-high corporate taxes. Government should just leave businesses alone and let them get on with their business.
 
There is no economic justification for farm subsidies whatosever. Besides, most of the money goes to big agribusiness to grow corn and soy (fruits and vegetables get no subsidies at all). Also, the whole system is messed up: the government subsidizes farming, making food cheaper, and then the government pays farmers to NOT grow food to bring prices back up. It's totally insane. We might as well have an energy policy that says, "we should get off of foreign oil by burning money."

So to help convert your family you might try explaining that the government steals your tax money to fund large factory farm corporations that drive the little people out of the market...
 
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An excellent real-world case study of ending farm subsidies is New Zealand, which did bite the bullet a couple decades back and eliminated all subsidies and let the market sort things out. There is quite a bit of information out there on it, such as:

http://www.newfarm.org/features/0303/newzealand_subsidies.shtml

The net result was that while there was a painful transition period as the market adjusted, it actually boosted average farmer incomes, lowered production costs, and created a healthy market for agricultural employment. In other words, both the producer and consumer came out ahead over the long run.
 
vulture said:
An excellent real-world case study of ending farm subsidies is New Zealand, which did bite the bullet a couple decades back and eliminated all subsidies and let the market sort things out. There is quite a bit of information out there on it, such as:

http://www.newfarm.org/features/0303/newzealand_subsidies.shtml

The net result was that while there was a painful transition period as the market adjusted, it actually boosted average farmer incomes, lowered production costs, and created a healthy market for agricultural employment. In other words, both the producer and consumer came out ahead over the long run.
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And that's exactly the result that is expected from a free market. I never knew this about New Zealand, but I have noticed that they import a lot of organic food, especially meats, to the U.S. Thanks for posting this, very interesting! (I have an economics degree plus I'm a food enthusiast so it was especially fascinating to me).
 
Yeah, a lot of people are unfamiliar with the case of New Zealand eliminating massive farm subsidies, and it is about the only real-world example of its kind in the industrialized world. That it was incredibly successful should make it a standard part of the argument arsenal when people start asserting that subsidies help farmers.

Eliminating agricultural subsidies turned New Zealand into a very profitable agricultural export powerhouse, and the model maps very well to the current US situation. No need to hesitate over what-ifs, we know how this plays out not just in theory but in practice. It is time to unleash the full power of American agriculture upon the world instead of coddling it like a slightly retarded child.
 
christagious said:
This weekend some of my family will be getting together.

I live in Ohio and my aunt and uncle own a dairy farm. I'm not sure how they stand on subsidies because quite frankly, I don't understand the issue at all, but I'm going to assume that most farmers support farm subsidies, which would explain Huck's victory last night.
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So, how did it go? My grandfather and a couple of uncles are farmers.

XNN
 
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