EU's Hard Power in Ukraine

[juleswin]

EU's Hard Power in Ukraine

The Fourth Reich is on the march and where soft power, that is buying out the local elites, does not work, well, hard power is quite the option still. As such, the EU has launched its Plan B, Revolution.

The problem is, this time several key issues are quite different, from the Orange Revolution.

First, the participants on the side of the "Revolution" are not the same. Previously, the Orange Revolution, which was still predominantly Western Ukrainian, had a lot of sympathy in Central and Eastern Ukraine. However, that sympathy is gone. The Oranges brought in a regime just as corrupt as the previous, but without any of the economy savy, dropping growth rates from a staggering 13% to a shrinking -6%. Furthermore, the Oranges did everything they could to pump all the resources out of the industrialized East to the backwards agrarian West.

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Like wise, the stakes are quite different. With the Oranges, there was a level of unsurity of what would exactly happen. So people, as people tend to do, filled in the blanks with their dreams and hopes. While some of that still remains for the uninformed or paid off mass of students, who have plenty of energy and no brains, those who have not drunk the EU coolaid and are reviewing this with a level head understand just what will happen.

Associating with the EU will achieve:
1. Closure of Russian borders to Ukrainian products, destroying over 50% of what is left of Ukraine's industry, driving 400,000 people directly into unemployment and probably 1 million more from the follow on effect.
2. Bring gas prices to free market levels, which will increase prices in general by another 50-60% and thus make Ukraine's uneconomical industry and agriculture that much more uneconomical.
3. Flood Ukraine with German, French, British and Italian goods, thus destroying what's left of the local production and driving millions more into unemployment.
4. Increase gas prices for the average Ukrainian, a direct demand by the EU.
5. Freeze salary increases for government employees, a direct demand by the EU.
6. Decrease in gov revenues that are presently collected from importation tariffs on EU goods.

Associating with the EU will NOT achieve:
1. Any bailout funds from the EU.
2. Any decreases in the extremely high standards demanded to import into the EU, thus no increase in export volumes.
3. A visa free regime into the EU. Not only will this not change, but a visa regime with Russia is quite possible, fully trapping Ukrainians.
4. A "European" that is a "Western" prosperity future. Quite the opposite will happen: see Greece, Cyprus, Bulgaria, Spain, Portugal, or Ireland for the latest examples.
5. EU investment.

In all truth, those of the protesters who are not just being paid to protest, will be in for a quite a shock if they ever get their way.

However, things are not that simple. The government backed away from signing the accord first and foremost because of the under reported demonstrations in Eastern Ukraine and the threats of businessmen. Both parties are staying at home right now because they got what they want, but if this EU Revolution starts gaining steam, they will head out into a counter revolution and that in truth means civil war.

We may be witnessing the first shots of the well over due Ukrainian civil war and the end of the artificial Ukrainian nation. For the Poles this is just as fine, since they will happily vassal and then colonize, read wipe out, the Western Ukrainians.

continue reading http://mat-rodina.blogspot.com/2013/12/eus-hard-power-in-ukraine.html

I know its very easy for people on this forum to see police and military as the bad guys and protesters as the good guys. But sometimes, the situation is a little more complicated than that. The protesters in this case are fighting for a greater tyrant to rule over them. Who will no doubt bring about a just as menacing if not more menacing police state and untold amount of hardship to Ukraine. For this reason, I believe the police are doing the right thing by corralling these violent agents

Also, some here have somehow made the conclusion that since the only option presented to them is between being chained to a EU master or a Russian, it doesn't matter what happens because they still will not have freedom. This is a very misguided way of looking at it since there are many degree of freedom. Nobody on this site believes that election Rand Paul over Hillary Clinton will give us freedom against paying SS or Medicare, but it is still a much better choice than the latter.

 

[Origanalist]

Actually I'm with you on this juleswin. I think aligning with Russia is preferable to the EU. It's just too bad they have to choose, and who's fault is that?

 

[juleswin]

Sucks that they only 2 real options to picks from but when you are essentially a land locked nation with very few resources, you have to make do with the nations you have as neighbours. As it stands now, going with the Russia is the least worse of the options.

 

[Origanalist]

Sucks that they only 2 real options to picks from but when you are essentially a land locked nation with very few resources, you have to make do with the nations you have as neighbours. As it stands now, going with the Russia is the least worse of the options.

Screw the EU. One of the worlds 10 worst idea's ever. The new soviet states of europe.

 

[Occam's Banana]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/foreign-pressure-on-ukraine-will-only-make-matters-worse/

Foreign Pressure on Ukraine Will Only Make Matters Worse

I was interviewed on RT today regarding the downwardly spiraling situation in Ukraine. Asked who was to blame for the escalation of violence, I pointed the finger at US and EU politicians who continue to meddle in domestic Ukrainian affairs seeking to overthrow the government…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWkpRnVbq14

 

[juleswin]

US and Russia are fighting about Ukraine
by Prof Dr Eberhard Hamer, Germany

An association agreement was to be signed between the EU and Ukraine on the East summit in Vilnius. Such association agreements were concluded, for example, with Turkey in order to prepare for closer cooperation, in direction of EU membership. In these agreements, third countries promise certain “reforms”, for example privatising state enterprises, so that international corporations can buy them up. On the other hand, the EU commit itself to regular payments to the associated countries, allegedly to finance the “reforms”, in reality to bribe the ruling elites into gaining their goodwill for the EU.
A second step in addition to the association agreement is usually the admission of the associated countries to NATO. Usually the military integration is part of the political integration.
This, however, sheds light upon the background before which the EU actually operates these associations that Brzezinski, in his book “The Grand Chessboard”, described as steps for the expansion of the global empire. In particular, the European vassals must be kept under control by keeping a good US grip on Germany, the central state of Europe. That is why the strongest US occupation forces are stationed in Germany. The EU and NATO serve the purpose of encircling Russia, still regarded as the main opponent, to reduce its sphere of influence and to turn the vassals towards Europe and NATO by means of “coloured revolutions” and unrest.
In this game, the Ukraine has been the centre of attack for five years. The “Orange Revolution” of the Ukraine was directed by the former US Secretary of State Albright together with CIA agents and paid by the CIA. President Ms Tymoshenko, then brought to power, was a creature of the British high finance and tried to buy up Ukraine’s big economy for her clients. That the entire Western press continually urges freedom for this criminal is related to her clients, but is also part of the subversive US campaign for Ukraine.
The method to get the desired coalitions under control of the US empire by means of CIA – directed revolts, has become a series: the Baltic States, Georgia, Egypt, Libya and especially the border states under Russia’s influence. The fact that the CIA was also active within Russia became clear with those “Pussy Riots” and similar protest demonstrations, which though, Putin managed to control.
One wonders in what way the EU would benefit from an association with Ukraine. So if the EU already transfers bribe money and is going to agree on stronger financial assistance in an association agreement, the Europeans’ benefits remain relatively low, because the production capacity in Ukraine focuses on the Russian market, and would hardly endure western competition and because Ukraine as a mainly agricultural country would exacerbate the problem of EU subsidied agriculture.
Whether an association would be useful for Ukraine is also controversial. Ukraine is in fact economically linked to Russia. Would this relationship be abandoned in favour of a closer relationship with the West, Ukraine would not only fall into a sort of limbo in terms of its energy needs, but also – like the GDR – in terms of its foreign trade, enter into a development from which it could not recover in the short term. Moreover, the substantial aid from the EU would have to surpass Russia’s, which means that Ukraine could only make a turn to the West if it were not only remitted 1.6 billion a year, but more than 10 billion. Since the EU offer was too low in this competition of corruption, it did not win the bid, and Ukraine remained in its proven and tested Russian bonds.
To briefly describe the situation:
– For Ukraine it is about who pays more and who is going to develop its economy better, in the long run.
– For the EU it is about pulling Ukraine out of the economic bloc of Russia into their sphere of influence.
– For NATO it is about expanding further into the Russian sphere of influence.
– But for the US it is primarily about expanding its global financial empire and its military world power by payments from the EU and about further encircling and weakening Russia.

continue reading http://www.currentconcerns.ch/index.php?id=2592

This is another informative article to read about the whole Ukraine issue. I have read it a bunch of times now trying to see if I can pick out the important parts to bold out, but just about every sentence from the article seems to me to be just as important as the next, so please try and read it all if you can, its very written, not long and reads like a very good spy novel.

Also about the Mrs Newland handing out cookies to protesters, I found this funny cartoon about it. It is really sad that there are so many useful idiots who are so quick to sell their country out for a literally a few cookies.

 

[Zippyjuan]

A lot of Ukranians would like the option of making their own choices of who to deal with- not being forced to choose one or the other. Some of the protests are also against some of the new laws against protesting.

 

[DFF]

The Ukraine has been aligned with Russia for a very long time, what has this yielded? A salary of only $7,000 per year for most Ukrainians. This is unreal poverty. As much as I dislike the EU in a lot of ways, going with the EU may be preferable to staying under Russia's sphere of economic influence.

 

[AngryCanadian]

A lot of Ukranians would like the option of making their own choices of who to deal with- not being forced to choose one or the other. Some of the protests are also against some of the new laws against protesting.

Some of the protests are also against some of the new laws against protesting.

Sure they are. I sure love watching the Neo Fascist protesters beating the police and then fire cracking them with fire works sounds like a great idea for liberty doesn't it? Oh and yeah they have protesting about the new laws?

Nope. kidnapping, taking over doesn't sound like protesting now does it?

 

[Zippyjuan]

I see. The Ukranian government is libertarian and the protestors are neocons. Thank you for the clarification. Perhaps some day the US government will be more like theirs and we will be freer.

 

[Demigod]

Sucks that they only 2 real options to picks from but when you are essentially a land locked nation with very few resources, you have to make do with the nations you have as neighbours. As it stands now, going with the Russia is the least worse of the options.

Ukraine has a large coast on the Black Sea so it is hardly landlocked.As for resources they have coal,iron and a ton of arable land + fresh water .It is not much but together with their industry and location enough so to have a stable economy.

Actually I'm with you on this juleswin. I think aligning with Russia is preferable to the EU. It's just too bad they have to choose, and who's fault is that?

The Russians are the worst allies someone can ever have.The EU is garbage but Russia is a league in its self.For Russia there has always only been Russia.There is not a single ally that they have not back stabbed.

 

[Origanalist]

The Russians are the worst allies someone can ever have.The EU is garbage but Russia is a league in its self.For Russia there has always only been Russia.There is not a single ally that they have not back stabbed.

That sounds a lot like US.