Eradicate The "Left Libertarian" Nonsense

[osan]

It's just an example of a hypocritical double standard, that happened to be handy as it was posted yesterday.

As the thread revolves around the "left", and the libertarian division between right and left almost always includes border and immigration policy, it seemed relevant. But yes, the nation for comparison to the US is irrelevant. It could be any other nation, where someone on the left in the US wants unlimited immigration for the US, but supports strong border and immigration controls for another nation.

It could be Korea. It could be Taiwan. It could be Ireland. It could be Ukraine. It could be the borders between India, Pakistan or China. The point being that some persons and politicians in the US that are decidedly on the left can hold this double standard.

OK. Didn't read that way to my foggy eyes and brain.

 

[osan]

For the record, and this is nothing new but perhaps it bears repetition, communism is a game of felonies. It plays on all the worst that is in a human being, most specifically, FAIL (Fear, Avarice, Ignorance, and Lassitude).

Communism is all about the individual riding the wave of crime against his fellows. It is mob rule not unlike democracy in its ultimate practical results, but with different color grease paint on its face.

Once again, communism != communal living. The two have nothing to do with each other because the latter is a descriptive term, whereas the former is proscriptive. The one is a simple observation of what is, the other a specification of what should be: positive v. normative. One sees what's happenign, the other barks orders and edicts at you.

Can I make this any more clear? Do not me taken in by the superficial similarities and the tacit assumption that appearances represent the deeper truths upon which they are painted. Nor should you make the grave error of trusting the competence of those peddling these slippery terms to the world. And finally, always remember and never forget that the intentions of those who peddle these pills of conceptual poison are utterly irrelevant. Far too many of us are in the habit of miring ourselves in the arguments of a criminal's intentions, as if ostensibly good ones would somehow excuse the felon's actions. Intentions count for absolutely nothing at all, especially in such cases. Result is the only thing that matters where such issues are concerned and the unamended violation of a man's rights is always an outcome of the criminal variety, by definition.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I don't think this is accurate.

There is constant arguing of right libertarians among themselves about immigration, with the majority of them being against state restriction of immigration, and a vocal minority of them being in favor of it. But as far as I have seen, this is an in-house debate among right libertarians.

When it comes to the differences between right libertarians (what we here typically just call "libertarians") and left libertarians (what we here typically just call "communists" and would never consider libertarians) the distinctions are much more basic issues of whether or not private property and capitalism are ethical. But I think that within communist (i.e. left libertarian) thought, immigration policies are debated there as well.

But to take repurpose the term "left libertarian" for those right libertarians (i.e. free market capitalist libertarians) who oppose state restrictions of immigration, is to muddy the waters of both debates.

It would be interesting to see left-libertarians who believe in border and immigration control. People who actually identify as libertarian.

Nothing is absolute, and every person is an individual. That being said, the great philosopher J. Marshall Foxworthy may have come up with a systematic survey method to indicate left libertarian leaning:

- You might be a left-libertarian if you believe in open immigration before eliminating the incentives of the welfare state.

- You might be a left-libertarian if you have a double standard that the US should be open to unlimited immigration, but believe that other nations can and should restrict immigration and entry.

- You might be a left-libertarian if you believe in catering to various cultural Marxist ideas such as critical race theory, reparations, etc.

- You might be a left-libertarian if you believe that it is not a problem for schools to teach children about ideas such as critical race theory and the various gender confusions and sexual orientations.

- You might be a left-libertarian if you take offense at criticism of Democrats or the left.

- You might be a left-libertarian if you feel a need to defend former President Obama.

 

[Invisible Man]

It would be interesting to see left-libertarians who believe in border and immigration control. People who actually identify as libertarian.

I haven't seen it discussed. But the question must come up of how they can keep capitalists out of their territory. They can't just let them come in and start entering wage labor contracts with one another there.

Some anarcho-communists are pacifists. But some definitely aren't, and are ok with using violence in the cause of overthrowing capitalist institutions. I can't see them saying, "Yes, we can kill them. But no, we can't deport them."

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I haven't seen it discussed. But the question must come up of how they can keep capitalists out of their territory. They can't just let them come in and start entering wage labor contracts with one another there.

Some anarcho-communists are pacifists. But some definitely aren't, and are ok with using violence in the cause of overthrowing capitalist institutions. I can't see them saying, "Yes, we can kill them. But no, we can't deport them."

Yeah, I can't think of any examples either.

But the problem is that many firmly believe (and with good reason), that the open borders "principal" held by most on the left is merely a principle of convenience. It is a manipulation. It can change like the wind. You are correct in that once in power, they will control movement of people with an iron fist. This is precisely why some don't want to align with them right now. Nobody wants to be a useful idiot for a Marxist, crony-kleptocratic totalitarian plot.