End The Fed - WHY?

[TheTexan]

Funny how every time someone criticizes RP they have to give detailed explanations why. Very well.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ommunists...&p=4111285&viewfull=1#post4111285



I know, it gets old.

There's nothing in that post that gives one reason why we should be printing money and handing it to corporations. Your entire post was simply about 50 red herrings put together.

 

[ericthethe]

Alright, you guys are making claims. Go ahead and explain why you believe Austrian economics.

 

[Travlyr]

If one truly understand economics you come to realize that everything is boiled down into economics . . . which is simply how humans interact with each other and the method that that action is carried out. It all comes down to money and power.

Absolutely. And if one gives to another the power to counterfeit his money, then he gives up his liberty.

 

[TheTexan]

Alright, you guys are making claims. Go ahead and explain why you believe Austrian economics.

I'm pretty sure the earth is round. If you want to tell me its flat, you'll need to provide evidence towards that claim.

But since you like numbers I'll entertain you with a chart.

 

[Travlyr]

Alright, you guys are making claims. Go ahead and explain why you believe Austrian economics.

The desire to live free. If I own 1000 acres of land with mineral rights, then I should be able to drill for water, oil, natural gas, gold, coal and whatever resources I can find on my own land. Then I should have the right to hammer coins out of my gold, raise livestock and food on my land, for me and my loved ones, and trade freely while keeping trespassers and thieves at bay.

 

[TheTexan]

The desire to live free. If I own 1000 acres of land with mineral rights, then I should be able to drill for water, oil, natural gas, gold, coal and whatever resources I can find on my own land. Then I should have the right to hammer coins out of my gold, raise livestock and food on my land, for me and my loved ones, and trade freely while keeping trespassers and thieves at bay.

Yep. I posted a chart just to amuse me, but I don't need a chart to tell me that the inflation tax is theft & immoral.

 

[ericthethe]

There's nothing in that post that gives one reason why we should be printing money and handing it to corporations. Your entire post was simply about 50 red herrings put together.

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Print and give money to corporations.

Like it or not, government spending is necessary, especially now.

I'm pretty sure the earth is round. If you want to tell me its flat, you'll need to provide evidence towards that claim.

So you're just assuming Austrian economics are the answer. No facts or references are necessary. Cool

 

[TheTexan]

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Print and give money to corporations.

Like it or not, government spending is necessary, especially now.

The Federal Reserve is simply printing money and giving to corporations. Are you disputing this claim (can't tell if you're being sarcastic), or are you saying that it's right?

 

[Fredom101]

The key here is legalizing competitive currencies. Not enforcing the gold standard. Or even worse, turning the money printing over to the congress. If all we did was end the fed and let congress control things, we would be in no better situation- because the fed would still exist, only it would be called "the Dept of Currency" or something.

End the fed, and replace it with competitive currencies.

 

[TheTexan]

So you're just assuming Austrian economics are the answer. No facts or references are necessary. Cool

That's not fair. I totally gave you a chart.

 

[LiveForHonortune]

We were only taken off the Gold Standard in the motherfucking 70s by NIXON of all people and suddenly a bunch of people who joined within the past few weeks are talking about it as if it's an economic policy that we only used in colonial times (probably moles and trolls).

America was one of the absolute largest economies on earth back in its 18th century beginnings. America became THE LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD around 1876. We were taken off the Gold Standard before for a short while and it didn't work out too well then we went back onto the Gold Standard now we're off again and have only been off it a few decades but we're seeing an already unpayable monolithic debt. Foreign nations around the world are already seeing the weakness of the dollar and euro and have even begun dropping it then hording gold themselves and trading it for things like oil.

Fiat currency doesn't work. It will never work. There has never been an example in HUMAN HISTORY EVER of it working... at least not for long (around 30 years on average historically. The dollar is the longest lasting ever at around 40 years but we've maintained it through literal force. FORCING people to trade with it so you just cannot maintain your idiotic socialist economics without eternal war. In short, you cannot have this economic policy without being pro-war, that means you former democrats. Hillary Clinton is ridiculously pro-war, never forget that). The dollar is already failing miserably after it was taken off the gold in the '70s. Meanwhile, "gold isn't money" according to the wonderful fed even though they horde it like nobody's business behind super secret closed doors for "tradition".

I know many of you are former or current democrats who believe blindly in your failed economic policies but let me remind you something. FDR CONFISCATED GOLD FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN '33. He was your messiah and even he saw the value of gold. You cannot deny the value of something that has held its value since civilization began.

For republicans? We should already know the Reagan quote about gold.

So what's wrong with a gold backed currency? I DEMAND YOU TELL ME

SPENDING AND PRINTING UNTIL COLLAPSE IS FULL RETARD ECONOMICS

 

[Travlyr]

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Print and give money to corporations.

Like it or not, government spending is necessary, especially now.

I could be all for that. Why doesn't the government send $100k checks to everyone in America each Friday. Helicopter Ben. I'd buy a home with the first check... economic stimulus.. and I'd buy a car/truck/and motorcycle with the next. Then I would go on vacation and travel the world... except the Middle East where they are drone killing people. Maybe Santa Fe. Maybe Mexico. Maybe Chile. I'd spend, spend, spend. I'd buy a second home right away too. Maybe I'd buy 1000 acres on a river somewhere. Yeah... government spending is IT!

 

[Cyberbrain]

I think if you're more of a Keynesian or an Austrian comes down to how you view a well functioning economy. I do not view an artificially propped up bubble economy paid for with public debt as a well functioning economy. One based on the business cycle may not look the prettiest, but it's based on reality.

Though I have issues with some of Paul's economic policy, his understanding is solid.

 

[ericthethe]

We were only taken off the Gold Standard in the motherfucking 70s by NIXON of all people and suddenly a bunch of people who joined within the past few weeks are talking about it as if it's an economic policy that we only used in colonial times (probably moles and trolls).

America was one of the absolute largest economies on earth back in its 18th century beginnings. America became THE LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD around 1876. We were taken off the Gold Standard before for a short while and it didn't work out too well then we went back onto the Gold Standard now we're off again and have only been off it a few decades but we're seeing an already unpayable monolithic debt. Foreign nations around the world are already seeing the weakness of the dollar and euro and have even begun dropping it then hording gold themselves and trading it for things like oil.

Fiat currency doesn't work. It will never work. There has never been an example in HUMAN HISTORY EVER of it working... at least not for long (around 30 years on average historically. The dollar is the longest lasting ever at around 40 years but we've maintained it through literal force. FORCING people to trade with it so you just cannot maintain your idiotic socialist economics without eternal war. In short, you cannot have this economic policy without being pro-war, that means you former democrats. Hillary Clinton is ridiculously pro-war, never forget that). The dollar is already failing miserably after it was taken off the gold in the '70s. Meanwhile, "gold isn't money" according to the wonderful fed even though they horde it like nobody's business behind super secret closed doors for "tradition".

I know many of you are former or current democrats who believe blindly in your failed economic policies but let me remind you something. FDR CONFISCATED GOLD FROM THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IN '33. He was your messiah and even he saw the value of gold. You cannot deny the value of something that has held its value since civilization began.

For republicans? We should already know the Reagan quote about gold.

So what's wrong with a gold backed currency? I DEMAND YOU TELL ME

SPENDING AND PRINTING UNTIL COLLAPSE IS FULL RETARD ECONOMICS

Yeah dude spend and print until collapse while giving out free money to corporations, that's exactly what I said.

How would increasing spending be so catastrophic in decreasing the value of the dollar? The Fed is already doing a lot more to increase the money supply by buying up everyone's treasury bills. Actually a weaker dollar would be beneficial to the US, as it would mean other countries are importing more of your shit and helping you out. By its nature the exchange rate always fluctuates, and it's not only determined by money supply, but also by money velocity(how quickly it exchanges hands), by the country's output, and by how all the other countries in the rest of the world are doing.

Honestly the only doomsday scenario would be if no one wanted to buy treasury bills, but even now with all the chicken little shit about there being a debt crisis and irresponsible budgets, people are dumping all their money into them rather than invest it elsewhere because it is so secure. Because money supply doesn't really factor into how secure it is when velocity is so low...there is no inflation. What will happen when consumer spending revives and velocity picks up? The fed sells their t-bills and reduces the money supply. None of this is permanent.

In your mind why is it so scary for the dollar to be weaker, or for other countries to favor the euro, or gold? I think a lot of what I hear from the right and RP supporters is sentimental, wanting the dollar to be STRONG, and POWERFUL, and coveted by everyone in the world.

 

[LiveForHonortune]

Yeah dude spend and print until collapse while giving out free money to corporations, that's exactly what I said.

How would increasing spending be so catastrophic in decreasing the value of the dollar? The Fed is already doing a lot more to increase the money supply by buying up everyone's treasury bills. Actually a weaker dollar would be beneficial to the US, as it would mean other countries are importing more of your shit and helping you out. By its nature the exchange rate always fluctuates, and it's not only determined by money supply, but also by money velocity(how quickly it exchanges hands), by the country's output, and by how all the other countries in the rest of the world are doing.

Honestly the only doomsday scenario would be if no one wanted to buy treasury bills, but even now with all the chicken little shit about there being a debt crisis and irresponsible budgets, people are dumping all their money into them rather than invest it elsewhere because it is so secure. Because money supply doesn't really factor into how secure it is when velocity is so low...there is no inflation. What will happen when consumer spending revives and velocity picks up? The fed sells their t-bills and reduces the money supply. None of this is permanent.

In your mind why is it so scary for the dollar to be weaker, or for other countries to favor the euro, or gold? I think a lot of what I hear from the right and RP supporters is sentimental, wanting the dollar to be STRONG, and POWERFUL, and coveted by everyone in the world.

It's a debt based system. It's doomed to failure.

The interests rates are far too low and we've already seen the great housing collapse which Austrians predicted.

Simply put, we cannot afford it anymore. Hell, student loans/debt EXCEEDS credit card debt now.

 

[TheTexan]

You seem to be defending the Federal Reserve's massive printing by saying it doesn't harm our economy, without giving one reason why we should have it in the first place.

I can give you at least one reason why the Federal Reserve shouldn't be printing money: it's theft.

 

[socal]

Am I the only one who remembers RP mentioning in 2 recent speeches that we don't have to go back to a gold standard, but need to audit the Fed. And in one of those 2, he admitted the gold standard was not perfect, or words to that effect.

In any case the current system is unfair to the poor and middle class, and it seems like most here understand enough about the fractional reserve system without gold convertibility why this is so. I've been trying to guess what percentage of the population is benefiting from the Fed system, and I was thinking about 10% (I'm one of them).

 

[LiveForHonortune]

At this point, it's probably best for you to go watch "The American Dream".

 

[Travlyr]

Am I the only one who remembers RP mentioning in 2 recent speeches that we don't have to go back to a gold standard, but need to audit the Fed. And in one of those 2, he admitted the gold standard was not perfect, or words to that effect.

In any case the current system is unfair to the poor and middle class, and it seems like most here understand enough about the fractional reserve system without gold convertibility why this is so. I've been trying to guess what percentage of the population is benefiting from the Fed system, and I was guessing about 10% (I'm one of them).

I would say more like 1%.

 

[LiveForHonortune]

I remember arguing with some of the people on the NYT. They honestly believe quantitative easing is a myth...

If even far left people like Dennis Kucinich, Bernie Sanders, and Ralph Nader can see the failure and hate the federal reserve and we already know many many many right wingers already admit to the failure of the fed why are we still arguing about this?

It should be one of those issue both sides can easily agree on.

I don't understand with the state of the world economy someone can be this naive.