Email idea. Next step.

[wizardwatson]

EDIT: [see post #30 for more nuts and bolts didn't want to junk up OP as still work in progress]

A lot of people are asking what the "next step" is in various ways. Some of those have said we need to "organize" but don't really know what that would entail. I agree that we need to organize and I think that is the critical next step and in this thread I outline how I think we can do this. If you are interested in the movement long term I ask and encourage you to read this thread and if you agree with the general direction of the project to support it by following the "Support this" section instructions below.

Basically the idea is to have a large list of supporter email addresses from which local area coordinators construct a newsletter style email that they send to members in their area. There are, I'm sure, instances where this is being done on a local scale but I'm proposing that this be done in a larger more comprehensive way and with a few differences that I want to explain.

Email

I think email is should be the preferred method of getting information out to supporters. It's ubiquitous (many have it right on their phones) and it makes two-way communication easy compared to trying to communicate through social networks. Not to say social networks aren't useful, but any special scenarios that are more suitably carried out via social networks can be communicated/linked via email.

The list

The list of supporters is the primary asset. There need not be a "master list" that everyone is privy to, but rather local coordinators should maintain their relevant chunk of the lists and collaborate in order to remove any redundancies in the list. There should be multiple coordinators with access to the list so that there isn't a single point of failure with regards to access. Lists can be recorded and maintained on shared web-based documents (google spreadsheets).

Building the list is the initial task and can be done by mining social networks and campaign lists where available and requesting that the supporter opt-in.

Content and archiving

Local coordinators are responsible for generating the email content and also with deciding what a suitable number of emails per unit of time should be. Regular supporters can notify coordinators for any local relevant info to be included in the newsletter.

In addition to generating the content, each email should be recorded and published to a shared, public email archive document (google docs segmented by location). This will allow members to view old emails and events outside their area and will allow coordinators to see how other coordinators are constructing content. Having email content archived in this way will cut down on spam and will allow supporters and coordinators to learn from one another on how to better construct future content. This mechanism will also be useful for preserving and promoting links and linked-to content.

Larger supporter base

The primary purpose of a consolidated newsletter is to have as many eyeballs as possible viewing content most relevant to them. However, with the wide spectrum of beliefs and ideologies within the movement it would be difficult and perhaps impossible to know what local information is most relevant to members on their portion of the list. With this in mind I propose a different approach: Share the list.

I see no reason why supporters and activists of different political stripes should not have access to the same local information that someone of a different ideology has. I view the newsletter as a form of media and collaboration on content would be a benefit to all sides of the conversation. Since there is no way really to draw a line around who is in and who is out with respect to the movement, broadening the activist base would lead to more civil communication and would increase the number of crossovers.

So the list is not something to be owned by one faction of the overall movement, but is a comprehensive list of political and grassroots activists from across the political spectrum. The focus is on local people and local info and it's my position that the more eyes and ears that are on the list the better.

Summary

So those are the main points. It's my position that this is what the movement needs, a fixed point to focus our attention on. Allow the grassroots to have its own medium of communication that we can contribute to and collaborate on. Have our own lists that aren't owned by a campaign or some social network. Archive the propagated content so we have a record to reference and learn from. Share the list by encouraging all activists from all stripes to join the list and participate in posting local content and info. Ultimately this project is about getting the grass roots on the same page, getting the right information to the right people, and using transparency to allow the grassroots to learn from one another.

My strategy

In the interest of keeping the OP short I haven't mentioned various objections and faults people might see with this project so I encourage anyone with an opinion one way or the other to contribute to the thread and I'll chime in on those points (it's spam, invasion of privacy, need a website, etc.). This is the fourth thread I've posted on this idea (still evolving) and I've answered a few criticisms on those but I don't mind repeating myself (see this, this and this).

One point that's been mentioned more than once is that I have some agenda with "getting the list". So this section is for me to explain exactly what it is I'm trying to do.

I've actually had this idea for compiling a list of grassroots supporters for some time. Lately, it has become a focus of mine because I'm having a very hard time making any headway in this direction here in Kansas, so my guess is that it is probably the same story for others out there (which some have voiced on these forums). Problem is I can't really get people on some tiny list in Kansas as everyone will think I'm just another spammer. Even if they grasp the overall idea and see the benefit, it will no doubt seem futile. So I'm thinking this can and maybe should be done as a national effort. It isn't that I want access to a "national list", there shouldn't be a national list (as explained above), but I think there's an opportunity here for this to be a national effort.

So the strategy as I see it is to frame this project as a national effort and get supporters from across the country to embrace it. Even with a few hundred supporters I think the idea will gain credibility. At first perhaps just on forums like this, and then that credibility might snowball and spill over to the local arena and it will be easier for me to reach out to local people and have them on board if I have a larger effort to reference. Also, as a national effort I think it will boost morale to watch the list grow.

This is why I'm posting this on the forums. There may not be a lot of "grassroots" things we can do from the forums but I think this is one of those things. It's about building a consensus on a viable strategy for moving forward after this election cycle and I think this consensus building could work around a strategy like this.

Support this

If you are interested in supporting this the threshhold for participation is very low. Just email me your email, name, city and state (or PM me that info here on the forum). When I get these emails/PM's I'll update the amount below.

My email: wizardwatson at gmail dot com

Number of supporters: 2

I will be the sole compiler of the initial email list. I will not spam you and likely the first email you get will be notifying you that your email is being shared with coordinator x or an email detailing what the next steps are. So you'll always know who is managing your email and will know who to contact to opt-out of the system.

The goal at this stage is just to build support on the forums and perhaps, if there is substantial forum support, I'll ask for the thread to be stickied. If we get say a couple hundred interested from the various forums this is posted on we can start working on broader strategies and get the shared lists and email archive documents going. So for now the best way to show support is to opt-in to the list (you can always opt-out later, no risk) and voice your support on the thread. We all post on these forums, many times concerning things that have nothing to do with the movement, so I hope this idea interests you and you'll become part of it.

 

[LinuxJedi]

Why centralized? Why not just use mailing list software (such as mailman), and allow people to post to the lists within their communities. Local lists might need to be moderated, and it would be a good idea to have some appeal process in case of lists being usurped by trolls / whackos.

Just a simple setup of mailman would suffice. I would also suggest that mailing lists based only on region is not enough, legal mailing lists, technical lists and so on are also important to allow collaboration amongst people with different skills to offer the movement.

 

[wizardwatson]

Why centralized? Why not just use mailing list software (such as mailman), and allow people to post to the lists within their communities. Local lists might need to be moderated, and it would be a good idea to have some appeal process in case of lists being usurped by trolls / whackos.

Just a simple setup of mailman would suffice. I would also suggest that mailing lists based only on region is not enough, legal mailing lists, technical lists and so on are also important to allow collaboration amongst people with different skills to offer the movement.

Mailman seems like it could definitely be a candidate for running something like this. First I've heard of it, but at first glance looks very versatile.

Yes, local list content would need to be moderated and I've thought about having an appeals process as well. That's why I think it's important to view the idea more like an organization than simply a list. And yes, other groupings/lists would ultimately have to exist in order to keep the overall organization functioning. This could include things like a list for national and state coordinator moderation hierarchy, a web team list for those working on promoting the organization and web based information about it, etc.

So it's not about "centralizing" (not sure if I used that word) it's about having a consensus as I said on where we're getting our information "from" and posting our information "to".

Anyway, you're a step ahead of me. Until we build a consensus around the idea in general, until enough people see this as a strategic step forward and are willing to participate it now at the ground level (you?) we're not going to get the list-building process started to where these organizational and infrastructure issues matter.

 

[parocks]

I should point out that the ability exists in social networks to send bulk emails, so it isn't either/or - social network or email.

The admin of the social network can send an email to every registered member of the site. Or to a smaller group.

 

[parocks]

I should add that setting up a social network is REALLY REALLY EASY.

Set up a social network using joomla drupal or any other. Build in all the functionalities. Done. If you can't afford the cost of this, which is actually quite small, don't take on that responsibility.

Why would google spreadsheets be part of this process. Google is not within anyones control, neither is facebook or meetup.

 

[LinuxJedi]

Social networks and other things are quite limiting. If you take a look at open source projects (my background) mailman is an essential component, and it generally is used to "ignite" a project. It isn't just a matter of sending an email to a bunch of people... mailman allows people to easily join or leave a list, management is shifted entirely to them.

I agree that the idea requires traction, I think that "the movement" has a further direction to take into using a tool such as redmine (I have posted on this previously) to help coordinate a highly distributed effort. It's easy to lose track of small details, and in something as large as reforming the GOP party... the small details are absolutely vital to winning at higher levels.

Setting up mailman is pretty quick to do, and see if the idea gets traction. Might be able to find somewhere already that provides setup servers.

 

[wizardwatson]

I should point out that the ability exists in social networks to send bulk emails, so it isn't either/or - social network or email.

The admin of the social network can send an email to every registered member of the site. Or to a smaller group.

I should add that setting up a social network is REALLY REALLY EASY.

Set up a social network using joomla drupal or any other. Build in all the functionalities. Done. If you can't afford the cost of this, which is actually quite small, don't take on that responsibility.

Why would google spreadsheets be part of this process. Google is not within anyones control, neither is facebook or meetup.

Google spreadsheets doesn't "need" to be a part of the process. I'm only suggesting as it's easy and can be made secure. It's a mechanism to accomplish the idea I've proposed of managing lists the same as mailman (mentioned above) solves the problem of maintaining a list and the same as your ideas to use joomla or drupal solves the problem of emailing groups.

Yes, all these mechanisms are easy to set up. I'm an app/web developer by profession so I can attest to that.

But this isn't the problem I'm trying to solve. The problem is how do we create a consensus on a local portal for local information that has the momentum and gravity to draw in supporters and make the local mission worthwhile to people. I am thinking that we make the "local mission" a national effort. That's what I'm saying. I don't think these technical matters of what software to use or which social platform people in Topeka, KS should adopt are the primary issues.

The question is simply this: What are we doing wrong as a movement that is preventing us from growing a list of local supporters and bringing them together for the purpose of sharing information?

It could perhaps be phrased better but that's what I'm driving at. We have all these tools but they aren't solving the main problem of having a consensus on how to operate at the local level. I get that some people think or many think that the solution is to concede to a "every man for himself" build your own local list solution, but I'm questioning that stance, as I don't think it is working.

 

[Paul Fan]

I think you are putting the cart before the horse. If you have information you want to get to people, create a website and post it there. Offer to send the posted information on a regular (weekly? twice-monthly?) basis to anyone who signs up. If the information is useful, people will sign up to save themselves the hassle of rechecking the website. No one is going to sign up to an email list that might just spam them with info they don't want. Mailman sounds like it might help, but the key is proving you have useful information before asking people to sign up.

In short: build it and they will come.

 

[LinuxJedi]

I think that a major problem in this movement is fragmentation. In particular, there is Daily Paul which is a parallel universe to Ron Paul Forums. There are mailing lists here, meetups there, a local site here, another PAC there. United we stand, divided we fall.

I can see the value in a "central hub" of activity where people come together just to get work done. RPF and Daily Paul can discuss whatever is going on, but that is discussion, a central hub is for action. I'm not sure about newsletters that have to go through extensive moderation before posting. I think that instead, a local discussion group is essential. There are many local discussions that aren't relevant to larger districts. However, it does happen that, say, organizing a state requires coordination of counties, which requires coordination of local chapters. This type of organization is what is really needed.

I think that "getting a list of supporters" misses the point. The key part is to "have them sign up" and to join something that allows them to get to know their neighbors, chat, and coordinate locally. How many of us honestly want to get unsolicited email?

I agree that this isn't just a technological problem... that part is easy. It's a matter of how to really coordinate effort, which is more fundamental. What we want is some sort of "fabric" which brings people together to get involved. People go to various sites to chat, hang out... but there is some focal point for all supporters. Does that make sense? With open source software, it would be something like SVN and mailing lists... these bring people together to really work, but other things bring people together to chat and hang out...

 

[parocks]

You can integrate mailman with joomla, or a mailman / joomla bridge. Or mailman / drupal. Or, whatever works - integrate a satisfactory mail component with a satisfactory social network.

Social networks and other things are quite limiting. If you take a look at open source projects (my background) mailman is an essential component, and it generally is used to "ignite" a project. It isn't just a matter of sending an email to a bunch of people... mailman allows people to easily join or leave a list, management is shifted entirely to them.

I agree that the idea requires traction, I think that "the movement" has a further direction to take into using a tool such as redmine (I have posted on this previously) to help coordinate a highly distributed effort. It's easy to lose track of small details, and in something as large as reforming the GOP party... the small details are absolutely vital to winning at higher levels.

Setting up mailman is pretty quick to do, and see if the idea gets traction. Might be able to find somewhere already that provides setup servers.

 

[LinuxJedi]

I am aware of the potential for integration, but why? Sometimes very simple things work better than complicated things. I would be concerned that over-complication of a simple tool would reduce its efficiency.

I don't understand why a social network is an essential part of this?

 

[parocks]

Google spreadsheets doesn't "need" to be a part of the process. I'm only suggesting as it's easy and can be made secure. It's a mechanism to accomplish the idea I've proposed of managing lists the same as mailman (mentioned above) solves the problem of maintaining a list and the same as your ideas to use joomla or drupal solves the problem of emailing groups.

Yes, all these mechanisms are easy to set up. I'm an app/web developer by profession so I can attest to that.

But this isn't the problem I'm trying to solve. The problem is how do we create a consensus on a local portal for local information that has the momentum and gravity to draw in supporters and make the local mission worthwhile to people. I am thinking that we make the "local mission" a national effort. That's what I'm saying. I don't think these technical matters of what software to use or which social platform people in Topeka, KS should adopt are the primary issues.

The question is simply this: What are we doing wrong as a movement that is preventing us from growing a list of local supporters and bringing them together for the purpose of sharing information?

It could perhaps be phrased better but that's what I'm driving at. We have all these tools but they aren't solving the main problem of having a consensus on how to operate at the local level. I get that some people think or many think that the solution is to concede to a "every man for himself" build your own local list solution, but I'm questioning that stance, as I don't think it is working.

All fair enough. How to create consensus with Libertarians? Good luck with that.

One argument could be made, that RPF and Daily Paul should've stepped up and added features. RPF is basically phpbb with a few add ons. Either drupal or joomla (or another social network) could've been integrated. If that had been done, work could've taken place here or elsewhere. Daily Paul and RPF are about the same size, and do about the same thing. Those sites should be adding the features we need.

 

[parocks]

I am aware of the potential for integration, but why? Sometimes very simple things work better than complicated things. I would be concerned that over-complication of a simple tool would reduce its efficiency.

I don't understand why a social network is an essential part of this?

Person to person communication. Groups.

 

[wizardwatson]

I think you are putting the cart before the horse. If you have information you want to get to people, create a website and post it there. Offer to send the posted information on a regular (weekly? twice-monthly?) basis to anyone who signs up. If the information is useful, people will sign up to save themselves the hassle of rechecking the website. No one is going to sign up to an email list that might just spam them with info they don't want. Mailman sounds like it might help, but the key is proving you have useful information before asking people to sign up.

In short: build it and they will come.

Yeah, this is the every man for himself approach. I get that. But for some reason that has resulted in fragmentation as LinuxJedi talks about above.

 

[wizardwatson]

I think that a major problem in this movement is fragmentation. In particular, there is Daily Paul which is a parallel universe to Ron Paul Forums. There are mailing lists here, meetups there, a local site here, another PAC there. United we stand, divided we fall.

I can see the value in a "central hub" of activity where people come together just to get work done. RPF and Daily Paul can discuss whatever is going on, but that is discussion, a central hub is for action. I'm not sure about newsletters that have to go through extensive moderation before posting. I think that instead, a local discussion group is essential. There are many local discussions that aren't relevant to larger districts. However, it does happen that, say, organizing a state requires coordination of counties, which requires coordination of local chapters. This type of organization is what is really needed.

I think that "getting a list of supporters" misses the point. The key part is to "have them sign up" and to join something that allows them to get to know their neighbors, chat, and coordinate locally. How many of us honestly want to get unsolicited email?

I agree that this isn't just a technological problem... that part is easy. It's a matter of how to really coordinate effort, which is more fundamental. What we want is some sort of "fabric" which brings people together to get involved. People go to various sites to chat, hang out... but there is some focal point for all supporters. Does that make sense? With open source software, it would be something like SVN and mailing lists... these bring people together to really work, but other things bring people together to chat and hang out...

This is the spirit of what I'm getting at, you've nailed it. And you're perhaps right that phrasing it "getting a list of supporters" isn't the right way to say it as I am talking about opting-in not just getting a list to spam.

With you and others that have posted on various threads I've posted, I already have a short list of people who see the need for this type of "fabric" as you say. I just don't know, and I've tried, how to put my finger on what exactly is missing but I do see it as a sort of email based list that users have the ability to provide input to and collaborate on what content is going out. We need something bare bones and efficient.

 

[wizardwatson]

I am aware of the potential for integration, but why? Sometimes very simple things work better than complicated things. I would be concerned that over-complication of a simple tool would reduce its efficiency.

I don't understand why a social network is an essential part of this?

I think it's just a bias people on the internet have. People see social networks as the "hub" of activity when in most cases there is little real work being done through this medium. National campaigns don't operate through social networks, that just augments their primary methods of snail-mail, phone and email.

I think social networks should augment a more basic structure not be the centerpiece. The threshhold of participation is too high for the average person. Email however is familiar to nearly everyone.

 

[wizardwatson]

I'd be interested to know what ideas all you out there think is the next step. How do we connect with each other and grow the movement?

The campaign is winding down, C4L is a non-event, facebook will likely dry up after the campaign, the meetups are already dormant. What is it that we need to do to sustain our efforts? What is the fabric that's gonna hold us together? It's easy to sit back and wait for someone else to take the first step and jump on board later. It's easy to say "we're decentralized and the free market of ideas will manifest into something". It's easy to say join your local GOP become a precinct leader and have an every man for himself attitude.

But how are we going to keep communications? Who's going to notify who of what's happening? Is it not time for us to have some semblance of organization that isn't solely based on the campaign of the day?

The way I see it, we've had 5 years since this all began. We've latched on to these social networks but I don't think they are doing the job that needs to be done. We've gone from creative grassroots organizing to simply following and commenting on news pieces. How many threads are actually grassroots related? Shouldn't there exist something after all this time that allows supporters to easily plug into it and get the info they need.

Thoughts?

 

[LinuxJedi]

You can compare with what I had posted myself: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...Grassroots-A-Job-Board-Redmine...-please-read!

I think that this is a good time to reflect on what went right, and what went wrong... and to learn from it for future campaigns / initiatives. There has been a lot of wasted effort, I think, because people didn't know how to help. It has also been the case that cooperation has been shunned... I think that a number of people used this revolution to inflate their sense of self-worth, and that wasn't the best thing for the movement. It is something that is bound to happen again, but many people used this opportunity to make a buck or to "be better than others".

There has also been this notion that the grassroots has an unlimited purse... not true. It is ironic that we are working so hard to restore leadership back to local levels, but we do not coordinate locally as we should. Chip-ins often make their way to the top pages for what should be a national audience, but there are many valuable local chip-ins that could happen. For instance, people might want to sponsor a debate-watch and discussion in their home town... we need to help people connect to do that as locally as possible.

I'm not sure what the final "solution" is to help coordinate our campaigning, but I have learned a few lessons:

1. A better reputation system is essential. There has to be some way that we can indicate how reliable a person is based on volunteering or actions in real-life. If you have 10 people volunteer to do something, and all of them have credible reputation... you can be pretty assured it will get done.

2. Better means of discussion. Tons of ideas have been buried on these forums... the forums are trying to do something they were never meant to do: organize a revolution. They are good for casual discussion, but how many ideas have been buried in threads that are banished to the depths of the site? There has to be a better way to allow good ideas to "float up" and bad ideas to "sink down".

3. A follow-up on Chip-Ins is essential. Many people give money and want to see what they paid for. I think this will make people want to help financially again, but I also think it is important to know we are not getting scammed. I would be concerned that one person could pose and extract money from the grassroots over and over again.

4. When an election is in full-swing, people will arrive from nowhere. Some legitimately want to help, some want to derail things. We have to find a way to reward people who help out earlier, but also reward those who come later and do a ton of work. We have to find someway to handle an influx of people who don't know how to start, what to do... and aren't proven yet.

A good discussion so far, if we can get some more ideas maybe we can start to figure some things out. I agree that there has to be some form of organization in place, maybe not formally incorporated, but something to help resolve disputes that come up... and to help coordinate a little bit.

 

[parocks]

This is the spirit of what I'm getting at, you've nailed it. And you're perhaps right that phrasing it "getting a list of supporters" isn't the right way to say it as I am talking about opting-in not just getting a list to spam.

With you and others that have posted on various threads I've posted, I already have a short list of people who see the need for this type of "fabric" as you say. I just don't know, and I've tried, how to put my finger on what exactly is missing but I do see it as a sort of email based list that users have the ability to provide input to and collaborate on what content is going out. We need something bare bones and efficient.

You're starting from a spot where you're completely unknown. In an area where there are already many alternatives. Facebook does exist. Facebook is what most people use already in their day to day lives. People naturally gravitiate to Facebook. In 2008, people used meetup. They still do use meetup. And there's Ronpaulforums, and Daily Paul. And 50 smaller Ron Paul sites. Many of the Ron Paul sites have the community features, the ability to send email features, etc etc etc.

The barrier is that. There are too many already.

This discussion is very similar to 6-9 month old discussions where the topic was "we need to be organized. how do we do this?" There were a lot of those conversations. This conversation is very similar to those conversations.

From a practical standpoint, the way to go is to try to fix the existing sites instead of creating a new one, unless the new one is extremely good, far superior to the existing site, and extremely well funded and/or has a lot of people who want to spend a lot of time doing work to get users in the database.

This is nice thought experiment, where people type ideas about organization and why it is good.

Since we're all here on Ron Paul Forums, the best way to get this organizational site to happen, and for it to work, as opposed to being yet another pointless jerkoffery site is to get Ron Paul Forums to add these features.

 

[Paul Fan]

Maybe before asking how to connect, we should figure out why. What will happen? Publicizing events is great. Who is planning these events? What is the purpose of the events? I too am trying to figure out the best next step. I've got a theory that local action is needed, both political (e.g., taking over elected offices in towns) and non-political (e.g. starting community groups that take no governmrnt money and could come to supplant government services). What do other people think?