Dutch farmer protests

[TheTexan]

No, they go from doing nothing to halting parts of the economy with their tractors. The government has always been relatively good to farmers in a way. Years ago they flushed away lots of milk to protest the low milk prices, that worked at that time.

It's more of a general trend, that government just doesn't listen to the people anymore. They hide behind the law. And leftist activists have found out that they can use the courts to make the government enforce the law. This is the flaw in the system. And the EU is the biggest part of it. Without the EU we wouldn't have all this craziness. And I know a lot of farmers, they enjoy nature and diversity of species and would do nothing rather than to have a small farm and enjoy working hard to support it with a decent income. But it's the policies from the EU that have made many stop and the others to grow larger...

It just strikes me as completely obvious, that if your country is at the point where they are taking 50% of farmers lands to "protect sand from plants", things are way past the point of negotiation.

These are not reasonable people that you're dealing with. No amount of negotiation, protesting, or strongly worded letters is going to change anything.

But hey, I'm just some dude from across the pond who has no idea how your politics work. Perhaps honking and waving signs will indeed work for you guys... I will be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[jmdrake]

Huh ? That's the most ridiculous bull$#@! I've heard so far.

Yeah....coming from that particular friend of my it's not at all surprising. Decent guy but extremely overinflated view of his own opinion. And he always tries to back it up with some anecdotal "I have inside information you don't have" B.S.

You're partly right there.. It's not just about no plants, it's also about the wrong plants. They belong in other habitats. Imagine saying something similar about humans (?!).

Well in Alabama we have a kudzu problem. But kudzu belongs in Japan. You could call it an "illegal immigrant" plant. (Actually it was brought over here on purpose by the environmentalists of the FDR administration because it was supposed to help stop erosion.)

See: Kudzu: A Lesson in Big Government Failure

But if I'm understanding you right, these plants are actually native to the Netherlands but they just don't normally grow on sand? In a garden we would call that "weeds" but in the wild we'd just call that "nature." And which plants are supposedly facing extinction? Sorry for all the questions but this is a fascinating topic to me.

There is nothing natural about this country. Half of it was made by our ancestors over the last centuries by making dykes and pumping out the seawater. The last natural forst was felled in 1875, everything since than has been planted by humans.

Basically y'all terraformed the place. Kind of like what the socialist federation on Star Trek does. The very same people who are mad about plants growing on the sand dunes of the Netherlands would have a mindgasm to see plants growing in the sand of Mars. But then they'd probably demand Mars be returned to it's natural habitat. And God forbid somebody find something, anything, already alive on Mars.

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

It just strikes me as completely obvious, that if your country is at the point where they are taking 50% of farmers lands to "protect sand from plants", things are way past the point of negotiation.

That is what the government is saying, that there is no more negotiation. In my opinion, education about the facts, so everyone can understand what this policy does is the way to go. I personally think that we should be very protective of nature but if it changes due to circumstances, then it does. Can we talk about our farming methods? Yes, I do not like big scale farms as much as the farmers do. But it is due to politics that that happened...

These are not reasonable people that you're dealing with. No amount of negotiation, protesting, or strongly worded letters is going to change anything.

We'll see. Farmers are very reasonable people who like to make an honest buck. But they don't appreciate that being taken away.

But hey, I'm just some dude from across the pond who has no idea how your politics work. Perhaps honking and waving signs will indeed work for you guys... I will be happy to be proven wrong.

It's slightly more involved than honking and flag waving. They have been blocking distribution centers for supermarkets and other things.

 

[jmdrake]

No, they go from doing nothing to halting parts of the economy with their tractors. The government has always been relatively good to farmers in a way. Years ago they flushed away lots of milk to protest the low milk prices, that worked at that time.

It's more of a general trend, that government just doesn't listen to the people anymore. They hide behind the law. And leftist activists have found out that they can use the courts to make the government enforce the law. This is the flaw in the system. And the EU is the biggest part of it. Without the EU we wouldn't have all this craziness. And I know a lot of farmers, they enjoy nature and diversity of species and would do nothing rather than to have a small farm and enjoy working hard to support it with a decent income. But it's the policies from the EU that have made many stop and the others to grow larger...

More and more people are now flying our flag upside down these days. This used to be done in marine battles to signal a ship was in trouble... Now some people are saying the flag represents (red) the people, (white) clergy, (blue) royalty. But it's flown upside down now so royalty is on top. Factcheckers say this was not the design of the flag and it's never mentioned in history... I do not think that matters to those who are flying it upside down...

The facts are on the side of the farmers when you actually look on the ground. We used to have a lot of duckweed in the 90's, I remember all the waters being clogged with them. Farmers have used a lot less nitrogen since and I have not seen any duckweed in years. I see plenty of biodiversity everywhere... And I'm not a complete laymen on the subject.

Yeah. From what I read I gathered the EU was a big part of the problem. They have EU wide nitrogen reduction targets and with the Netherlands having a disproportionately large farming sector, its naturally going to be a tempting target for further reduction even if nitrogen levels are no longer a problem for the Netherlands itself. It sounds like you need a Nexit. Is that even possible?

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

Yeah....coming from that particular friend of my it's not at all surprising. Decent guy but extremely overinflated view of his own opinion. And he always tries to back it up with some anecdotal "I have inside information you don't have" B.S.

Right, the information I use comes mostly from the government or institutions that produced it. I have a little scientific education so I'd like to believe I'm at least a bit capable of reading scientific papers. Then when I read government policy or how it's rolled out, I'm usually appalled by the difference. I think that's a large part of all of this. Science very easily classifies a one acre piece of bog as some kind of special biotope. Then this ends up in law, and suddenly the most extreme things happen because of 'protecting' it. I don't know any people that want to destroy nature really, most people want to have a healthy environment around them... That's the weird part.

Well in Alabama we have a kudzu problem. But kudzu belongs in Japan. You could call it an "illegal immigrant" plant. (Actually it was brought over here on purpose by the environmentalists of the FDR administration because it was supposed to help stop erosion.)

Isn't that a plant that produces the same healthy compound as red grapes ? Resveratrol ? iirc I've heard it's good for cow pastures but originally comes from mountainous areas ? Is it also a nitrogen fixer ? While we're at it, please tell me more.

But if I'm understanding you right, these plants are actually native to the Netherlands but they just don't normally grow on sand? In a garden we would call that "weeds" but in the wild we'd just call that "nature." And which plants are supposedly facing extinction? Sorry for all the questions but this is a fascinating topic to me.

It's really about the classification of habitats. Once a certain plant is found, its called a certain habitat etc. And at some point someone decided that nature cannot change. And if a certain species disappears, then nature has degraded. Even though other species might have appeared.

And I'm in agreement that there are many species of animals and plants disappearing in the world. So I'm very much in favour of having large reserves where biodiversity can thrive. But on the other hand I'm also in favour of allowing evolution to do its part. Things need to change over time, and that's a good thing.

Basically y'all terraformed the place. Kind of like what the socialist federation on Star Trek does. The very same people who are mad about plants growing on the sand dunes of the Netherlands would have a mindgasm to see plants growing in the sand of Mars. But then they'd probably demand Mars be returned to it's natural habitat. And God forbid somebody find something, anything, already alive on Mars.

Right, these would be the same people protesting terraforming of mars (if possible) to protect it's natural environment...

But still, I have a lot of sympathy for everyone that believes in these policies because they want to protect nature. I want the very same thing. But I do not want to approach nature in such a one sighted way as it's seen now.

Funniest fact ? They do not make any difference between nitrogen emissions coming from Ammonia (NH3) or Nitrous oxides (NOx). That alone should tell you this is not good policy.

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

It sounds like you need a Nexit. Is that even possible?

IDK, the UK did it but we're quite a bit more involved. And pro EU politicians always say we would poor without them. I think that's the part people may start to doubt about now.

 

[tod evans]

Yeah. From what I read I gathered the EU was a big part of the problem. They have EU wide nitrogen reduction targets and with the Netherlands having a disproportionately large farming sector, its naturally going to be a tempting target for further reduction even if nitrogen levels are no longer a problem for the Netherlands itself. It sounds like you need a Nexit. Is that even possible?

It's gotta be frustrating having to deal with other countries politics and politicians on top of the ones in your own country.

My suggestion is a large and diverse compost pile made up entirely of politicians.

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

It's gotta be frustrating having to deal with other countries politics and politicians on top of the ones in your own country.

It's not much different than the US and its states.

 

[tod evans]

It's not much different than the US and its states.

Annnnd............

Look at the mess here.

Just sayin'.

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

Annnnd............

Look at the mess here.

Just sayin'.

I'm not disagreeing.

 

[BortSimpson]

http://dutchuprising.com/

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

http://dutchuprising.com/

Thank you. All efforts, donations and any other form of help are appreciated.
As I said before, this kind of protest is not normal for this place. People generally are very much okay with policies even if slightly negative for them.
These new policies however are not just one bridge too far but simply unacceptable.

Mind you, many of those in favour of removing the farmers, actually seem to get pleasure out of it.

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

 

[osan]

Now THAT is how you protest tyranny!

The difference, however, is that here the "government" would have the farmers shot the moment they began taking action. Also consider there are few farms within reasonable striking distance from DC.

After murdering said farmers, their properties would be forfeit, their families ruined with poverty, and so on down the list of the usual felonies Theye perpetrate against good people who dare show their displeasure.

ETA:

Scene: five thousand farmers from VA, MD, WV, DE, and PA set out on the interstates to go all Dutch on the vermin. "Authorities" respond with police, who set up road blocks. If the farmers respect the blocks, Theye win. If they don't, Theire lapdogs open fire, killing as many as necessary, down to the last man if needed. They then begin whinging "I feared for my life as the 2 mph tractor bore down upon us, and opened fire." Minions walk, Theye win.

So unless the tractor pilots were supported by tens of thousands of well-armed men, grim of countenance, ready to kill for what is right and in no humor for the least governmental nonsense, they would be murdered to whatever degree would be deemed necessary to get them out of Theire way.

 

[osan]

Farmers are very reasonable people who like to make an honest buck.

The problem of reasonableness doesn't lie with the farmers.

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

The difference, however, is that here the "government" would have the farmers shot the moment they began taking action. Also consider there are few farms within reasonable striking distance from DC.

After murdering said farmers, their properties would be forfeit, their families ruined with poverty, and so on down the list of the usual felonies Theye perpetrate against good people who dare show their displeasure.

ETA:

Scene: five thousand farmers from VA, MD, WV, DE, and PA set out on the interstates to go all Dutch on the vermin. "Authorities" respond with police, who set up road blocks. If the farmers respect the blocks, Theye win. If they don't, Theire lapdogs open fire, killing as many as necessary, down to the last man if needed. They then begin whinging "I feared for my life as the 2 mph tractor bore down upon us, and opened fire." Minions walk, Theye win.

So unless the tractor pilots were supported by tens of thousands of well-armed men, grim of countenance, ready to kill for what is right and in no humor for the least governmental nonsense, they would be murdered to whatever degree would be deemed necessary to get them out of Theire way.

I don't think it's that black and white.

 

[Marenco]

Go Dutch!

 

[Anti Globalist]

The Dutch are quite based. Hope they don't let up one bit.

 

[osan]

I don't think it's that black and white.

On the American side, I assure you that it is. If it suited Theire purposes, I promise you that such actions would be met with terminal violence.

Consider the summer of '21, Portland OR. Leftists trash the city as "authorities" stand idle, their tiny willies in their hands. It suited Wheeler's handlers to allow the lefties to riot and pillage. I lived in Portland in a time where the cops would have gone to war on those pricks with the first felonious act. Last year the cops were held in check because someone wanted the vermin to riot.

Were any group to threaten Themme, whether in fact or just as a matter of appearances, and it suited Themme to shut that door in the most non-equivocating language, Theye would hesitate no whit to kill them all. Consider Tien An Men in 1989. The Chinese filth butchered large numbers of their people not because the protesters posed any immediate threat, but because they wanted to send a message.

Tyrants stop at nothing. The history of the twentieth century should be all the proof you need on that point.

 

[Anti Globalist]

Basically the government wants to buy out 50% of the farmers or so and reduce the livestock by a similar amount in order to reduce nitrogen deposition because of a problem that only exists on paper. Farmers are not very happy with this. The whole 'problem' is difficult to explain as it makes no sense and everything is of course calculated with models...



Half of them do not have much to lose it seems.

Good. Those are the exact kind of people we need to fight back against this.