Don't let the "realists" bring you down.

uncollapse said:
The GOP convention is not over yet. So what are you basing your reality on? You are merely projecting into the FUTURE base on your assessment of current events. And being pessimistic about the upcoming GOP convention makes you a pessimist. 'Realist' is just a terminology you use to cover-up for your lack of faith in a possible victory in the upcoming GOP convention, no matter how slim the probablity.
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When have I been a pessimist about the convention? i have stated several times all over this forum I am open to anything...and if you go back and read my actual comments to this post you see that I said there is still hope. It's like none of you actually read any of the comments...you attack character instead of issues. My stance is basic and has never changed; keep rounding up delegates if you live in a state that has not had their primary. At the same time I feel that we should also be thinking of what comes after the RNC. I have NEVER, and I can only speak for myself, told the OP or any other person that thinks like him to give up on what they believe in. I have never claimed to know the outcome of the RNC....I do not know that. So don't YOU sit there and tell me how I think. You do not know my intentions, you do not know anything I have done within this movement, you do not know my heart. Not one of you has answered questions that I posed earlier in the post. QUESTIONS I'm asking in order to better understand where you all are coming from. But alas, ppl just want to argue. This can't even be considered a debate because character in stead of issues are being attacked.

Wow, I guess we can just make it easier on you guys....ATTENTION: all the realists or whatever we've been labeled....STOP thinking one step ahead. STOP promoting RP republicans for congress. STOP donating to them. STOP trying to brainstorm new ideas of how to bring new blood and support into the movement. LET'S AAALLLL subscribe to "group think." Let's just hope and pray to the god's the delegate situation pans out. If it doesn't...well, we'll worry about that when it gets here. Let's just stop all the work we're doing now...this movement doesn't need anything to fall back on. Group think is great...if we all think exactly the same and some of us never step outside of the box....surely we'll get so much more accomplished.</sarcasm>

I have made suggestions and tried to be sound with my reasoning...but yet some of you can turn around and call it "trolling and spewing venom." I take great offense to that. I really do! Venom? Poison? Wow. And you expect the realist to stay out of your thread and not defend themselves? I'm sorry, but that's extremely hurtful to hear from someone you're on the same team with...working for the cause of liberty and freedom. You work your ass of and someone decides to say you're an evil troll?! WTF! Bet your bottom dollar you're going to get ppl defending themselves. :rolleyes:

Gawd, and as a matter of fact...the ppl who are being jumped on for "injecting venom" have been pretty decent in trying to explain why we think the way we think. We haven't rudely told anyone to go away, or call them trolls, or pieces of shit, etc...like some of the optimists running around here. Get a grip. No one is telling you to give up anything. But w/that...if you attack a group of ppl....expect a rebuttal.
 
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I'm really thinking the thread has gone to shits with all this silly infighting.

How come this get more attention than recent victories, or commentaries on events pertaining to the movement?
 
Banana said:
I'm really thinking the thread has gone to shits with all this silly infighting.

How come this get more attention than recent victories, or commentaries on events pertaining to the movement?
Click to expand...

You are right. This discussion is not getting anywhere. Time to take a rest, but I'll leave with one last note. Exclusion or separation of pseudo factions will be the end of this movement. Success will not be had without some level of inclusiveness. We should all work on tolerating the views of others instead of using derogatory labels and definitions to explain what we do not completely understand.
 
F2D - although you seem to have gotten lumped in with the so-called "realists", I think you can tell that our frustration is not aimed at you. It's people who post negative remarks in any positive thread, and angrily demand that we stop being positive.

I haven't kept track of the names. But every thread seems to get bogged down by them.
 
phuqig_hotband said:
Exclusion or separation of pseudo factions will be the end of this movement. Success will not be had without some level of inclusiveness. We should all work on tolerating the views of others instead of using derogatory labels and definitions to explain what we do not completely understand.
Click to expand...

On this, I cannot agree more. :)
 
TheTyke said:
F2D - although you seem to have gotten lumped in with the so-called "realists", I think you can tell that our frustration is not aimed at you. It's people who post negative remarks in any positive thread, and angrily demand that we stop being positive.

I haven't kept track of the names. But every thread seems to get bogged down by them.
Click to expand...

Indeed, I know the majority of it is not directed at me....but my last response was to someone who used me in a quote. I don't play that game. Do not assume you know anything about me. AND, there are others on this post who think along the same lines as I do...and they are getting thrown under the bus over and over...of course I'm going t defend some of them....they're doing nothing wrong. They are stating their opinions along with some rational reason for having those opinions. Like someone said above...this is not getting anywhere. The infighting will surely be our demise.
 
TruthAtLast said:
Please post a link to all of the counties we've already lost.
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I love it mate, this sums up your whole perspective on life.

Is the glass half full or half empty?

For you, and your damn negativity. You would not only dismiss the notion that a glass even exists, you'd perceive yourself in a desert with cactuses, with no humanity or water in sight. You're only moments from death, you do nothing but break down and cry like a child - tears fill your eyes, you become blinded by the dust and sand. You've given up, and lost all hope.

What is the point of carrying on? What else is there to do, but whine, moan and groan like a little bitch?

What you FAIL to see, or even CONSIDER for a second, is that the open - baron "reality", the one you LOVE so much... is just that; an APPEARANCE of reality, yet there IS an alternate reality, BENEATH the surface, one that you have to find, and search for.

If you had only kept your eyes open, if only you remained calm and level headed, if you realised the correct "reality" of the situation... you would have survived, you would have lived, you would have realized - all you had to do, was break open a cactus and you've got all the water you need.

I know what you are thinking..... "yeah but if you don't start from the bottom, you can't ever have that state victory".
Click to expand...

Hahahaha. If you knew what I was thinking... you'd do what you do best, and that is GIVING UP - i.e You'd quit trolling. (By definition its what you are doing in this thread)

You're right.
Click to expand...

Thank you. :D

Now time to leave this thread with a gem;

Hey negative assholes, this is why YOU LOSE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyBbfjEztiE

And RON PAUL WINS!

LANDSLIDE VICTORY FOR RON PAUL IN MISSOURI
http://www.ronpaulforpresident2008.com/blog/node/92

Delegate Reality
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/36650

Straight Talk from a Texas Meetup
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/41322

A good day in Douglas County Colorado for Ron Paul
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/40698

Ron Paul Wins In Texas
http://people.ronpaul2008.com/campaign-updates

Ron Paul Republicans Take Over Alaska GOP
http://www.paulunteer.com/ron-paul-s...a-conventions/

Just a few, recent ones. Take you're pick, tools. :D
​
 
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Cynicism has become a supreme sign of intelligence. Compulsive skepticism masquerades as perceptiveness. Mean-spirited irony is chic. Beautiful truths are suspect and ugly truths are popular. Can someone turn this thing right side up please.. I personally am tired of everything being flipped on its head when i take a gander around.

Thanks
Randy
 
What a waste of time it is to be talking about this. Obviously the chances are slim and we should keep trying until the very end. But we all know Ron Paul didn't run to win. He's already won.

We should be focusing on people like Murray Sabrin and the others. We should be focusing on getting into the party ourselves.

Ron Paul already got the ball rolling. Stop thinking about the presidency. That wasn't his plan. Don't ruin it by being stubborn. Let's work on phase II.
 
Conza88... certainly it is difficult to argue against that level of ignorance and unwavering irrationality.

The glass is half full by the way. But I'm not going to say it is half full if there were only two drops of water at the bottom. That is the difference between you and I. I'll go find another source for water, while you will blindly keep telling yourself that the glass if full and ultimately die when you finally realize there are only two drops.

You resort to name calling when there is nothing left to prop up your argument. You speak of alternate realities as if we could just all hold hands and THINK about Ron Paul getting the nomination, and suddenly it happens. Yes, there are paradigm shifts that need to occur to wake people up, but it must be equally balanced with reason. The whole "think it and so shall it be" is not meant to be taken LITERALLY. It is an idiom for being positive and not falling pray to self doubt. Realists are also positive and do not doubt that there are solutions, they just aren't blinded to the world around them.

There is a fine line between optimism and fanaticism as if a person would just charge into a hailstorm of bullets being "optimistic" that the bullets will just miss while holding onto that slim hope of survival.

This kind of carless and nearsighted direction that has little foundation of reason is the same line of thinking that the Bush Administration evangelizes about the Iraq war. No matter how many lives are lost and no matter how impossible and irrational the current situation is, they ignore it all and stay "steadfast" in their plan.

I wish you the best and I really DO hope that everything you are fighting for comes true... for I, like all "realists", want what you want. Of course we would love the impossible (or at least improbable) to happen. Of course we would want some miracle scenario in which Ron Paul can somehow get the nomination. We just aren't willing to stake the ENTIRE future of our Movement on that dream. Coincidentally, neither is Ron Paul which is why he focused on getting reelected to Congress and is telling us to support other Congressional candidates as well. But you don't listen to him. You don't listen to the man you are fighting for.

But IF it doesn't work out for you after throwing all of your eggs into a single basket, I can only pray that you haven't set back the Movement another 2-4 years because of your absolute REFUSAL to listen to Dr. Paul and ALSO support Liberty Candidates.

I really wish Dr. Paul would read this thread because my views and the views of the other people saying we shouldn't ONLY focus on a single scenario is exactly what Ron Paul believes as well.

I have always applauded the effort. I have always applauded the enthusiasm and dedication. And there is no doubt that there are many victories to be had down this road regardless of the ultimate outcome (as I have stated over and over again but you fail to acknowledge).

I was willing to let this thread die and meet its natural end, which it did. Then you launch yet another irrational attack so of course I am going respond and defend myself and other like-minded supporters.

You seek to divide us which makes no sense because we are on the same team with the same goal of Liberty. I still can't understand your motive for this yet.

I'm waiting for some kind of logical reason for why you don't listen to Ron Paul and why you do not support any other Liberty candidate. Did one of these other guys offend you somehow? Do you hate Sanders, Sabrin, Lawson and the others?

You do know that it could have been any one of them to lead this Revolution instead of Ron Paul and it would have been one of THEM that you'd be supporting right now. These people are the future of this Revolution and deserve our support.
 
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Revolution9 said:
Cynicism has become a supreme sign of intelligence. Compulsive skepticism masquerades as perceptiveness. Mean-spirited irony is chic. Beautiful truths are suspect and ugly truths are popular. Can someone turn this thing right side up please.. I personally am tired of everything being flipped on its head when i take a gander around.

Thanks
Randy
Click to expand...

Spin-masters at work here. Try to be nice and they turn on you. They are the ones who are wrong and they know it but will continue spinning everything and making right seem wrong.
 
Zera said:
First of all, I'll admit that the chances of getting the nomination at the convention aren't too high. But, with what's been seen, it's certainly possible.

The "realists" often make claims that Paul will not get the nomination at all. I understand that they want to be realistic and all, but saying things like "will not", which mean a definite no, are not encouraging and very negative. They obviously don't understand the circumstances of the delegate and the process at all. Or if they do, they aren't seeing the progress we're making, at all.

You've seen several success stories on this board. And they always report there were other Paul supporters there... So obviously, just the people who come here aren't the only ones who are doing this. There may be many Paul delegates all over the nation that just aren't coming to this board to tell us how it's going. I've heard that there are many meetings in major cities for the delegates where they meet up and plan things. This can all lead to Paul delegates at the state convention, which would then pass a resolution to release McCain's delegates. Once that is done, the national delegates could be chosen, and if there is a majority of Paul delegates there, guess which delegates will be chosen to be national ones?

And it IS happening. Over the past few days, some people here have posted links to GOP leaders trying to tell local GOP leaders to be wary and careful of Paul supporters, and some are trying to make it seem we're misinforming people (I believe it was Minnesota where the GOP people were saying so, though they aren't aware of the resolutions that could be passed at the state convention). It's all very apparent they are scared of us, and that a revolution delegate-wise is happening. They wouldn't even mention it, otherwise.

Just remember, stay away from the MSM. They aren't going to report about the convention and what could happen. They're only going to announce the nominee they think will be chosen based on delegate numbers that they make up often.

And as I mentioned, don't let the realists bring you down. Their intentions may not be to really do so, but hearing negative things in times like this where we can have success is never good. Continue to do what you can to become delegates, and good things CAN happen.
Click to expand...


To those who disagree, saying things like, "Hahha, YEAH! DOWN with REALISM!" First of all, you're an idiot because the original poster put the word "realists" in quotes. Because I don't think you understand what that means, let me spell it out for you plainly: The word "realists" is in quotes, because in fact, you are not being a realist so much as you are an annoying, ridiculous troll. A loss is highly likely, though not yet official. That is true. That is a fact. That is reality.
Given that info, you are left with two choices. One, you can quit. Two, you can keep on chipping away to the bitter end as any true supporter would do.

For the sake of the real R.P. supporters, if you've chosen the option of giving up, please, shut the f*ck up already. We get it, you've given up. We haven't.
In the name of all things rational, what in the ever loving christ are you trying to prove?? You don't want to support Ron Paul anymore. Fine. Stop. But seriously, grow up, give us all a break and troll somewhere else. This campaign is not over until it is over. Is the campaign officially over? No. So, will we stop yet? No. Really man, it is that simple.
 
Revolution9 said:
Cynicism has become a supreme sign of intelligence. Compulsive skepticism masquerades as perceptiveness. Mean-spirited irony is chic. Beautiful truths are suspect and ugly truths are popular. Can someone turn this thing right side up please.. I personally am tired of everything being flipped on its head when i take a gander around.

Thanks
Randy
Click to expand...

+1,000,000 (unfortunately)

Ain't that the sad, sad truth. When will simplicity, true compassion, and stillness of mind come into vogue? Hopefully soon.
 
TruthAtLast said:
There is a fine line between optimism and fanaticism as if a person would just charge into a hailstorm of bullets being "optimistic" that the bullets will just miss while holding onto that slim hope of survival.

This kind of carless and nearsighted direction that has little foundation of reason is the same line of thinking that the Bush Administration evangelizes about the Iraq war. No matter how many lives are lost and no matter how impossible and irrational the current situation is, they ignore it all and stay "steadfast" in their plan.

I wish you the best and I really DO hope that everything you are fighting for comes true... for I, like all "realists", want what you want. Of course we would love the impossible (or at least improbable) to happen. Of course we would want some miracle scenario in which Ron Paul can somehow get the nomination. We just aren't willing to stake the ENTIRE future of our Movement on that dream...

I was willing to let this thread die and meet its natural end, which it did. Then you launch yet another irrational attack so of course I am going respond and defend myself and other like-minded supporters.

You seek to divide us which makes no sense because we are on the same team with the same goal of Liberty. I still can't understand your motive for this yet.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure who's trying to divide whom. I look to see who the plants and trolls are. Some are obvious. Some could as easily be frustrated loyalists to the cause. It is a puzzlement.

I believe Conza88 is in New Zealand, isn't he? What good would it do the American movement for him to support someone local?

Are you "realists" really, really sure that tilting this windmill, as you look at it, won't help your precious other Liberty candidates? Many, many voters pay no attention to any race but the White House race. By getting attention for ourselves in connection with the most visible race, are you sure the "windmill tilters" won't help the congressional candidates?

I really, really don't see how either the delegate fight or the diversion of support from these other races could possibly cause this battle for liberty any more harm than the rancor and divisiveness I see displayed by the naysayers.
 
Andrew76 said:
To those who disagree, saying things like, "Hahha, YEAH! DOWN with REALISM!" First of all, you're an idiot because the original poster put the word "realists" in quotes. Because I don't think you understand what that means, let me spell it out for you plainly: The word "realists" is in quotes, because in fact, you are not being a realist so much as you are an annoying, ridiculous troll. A loss is highly likely, though not yet official. That is true. That is a fact. That is reality.
Given that info, you are left with two choices. One, you can quit. Two, you can keep on chipping away to the bitter end as any true supporter would do.

For the sake of the real R.P. supporters, if you've chosen the option of giving up, please, shut the f*ck up already. We get it, you've given up. We haven't.
In the name of all things rational, what in the ever loving christ are you trying to prove?? You don't want to support Ron Paul anymore. Fine. Stop. But seriously, grow up, give us all a break and troll somewhere else. This campaign is not over until it is over. Is the campaign officially over? No. So, will we stop yet? No. Really man, it is that simple.
Click to expand...

Are you serious? So....all of this, the movement, the revolution, it's just about the campaign? Might I suggest you go back and watch Dr. Paul's latest video update. I don't think you heard a word Dr. Paul said. Some of the people who are getting thrown under the bus in this post have taken what Dr. Paul said seriously. Even RP has shifted gears in regards to his campaign. He is scaling back, and wants to continue educating people about THE MESSAGE.

How can you sit there and state some of the people on this post (who btw, have their feet firmly planted in reality and are far from TROLLS)...how can you state they no longer support Ron Paul? Please think about this: Dr. Paul has stood alone w/his ideals and beliefs many, many times in congress. That is one of the things that attracted many supporters. He has never compromised himself, beliefs, etc. He was re-elected 3/04...an outstanding victory! BUT, he hardly has any allies...wouldn't it be nice to get people like Sanders, Santoro, Lewis, Lawson, Sabrin, Terbo, etc into congress. Our guy will finally have allies. That's a MAJOR score in my book...and I know alot of people agree. So, with that said, the realists, the ones who are not putting all of their eggs into one basket; the ones that have decided to work on phase II .......they don't support Ron Paul? They are garnering support for republicans who are strict consitutionalists and will be on board with the good Dr.; let me get this straight...they don't support Ron Paul? Dude, that is laughable at best.

Think about what you're saying before you say it. Not once has the word "I give up" or anything similar to that come out of anyone's mouth...so stop putting cramming shite in our mouths that we didn't say. It's ridiculous; attack issues not character. I would also like to add that some of you need to figure out what the definition of "troll" is. Honestly, what some of you are doing could be considered trolling. Think about it...trying to get everyone fixed on this whole delegate issue that might or might not pan out....we do not know the outcome. All the while, it distracts people from learning about and promoting our other guys running for congress. Yeeaah...we'll truly be assed out then. AND there is a thread where it's a free for all bash fest against a group of people here....saying things you know will get a screwed up emotionl response; baiting? Hmmm, that's a bit trollish to me.

Also...see the ad at the top of the page? Hey! Eternal optimist people?! Put your money where your mouth is and donate to get it on the air!

Have a nice day!
 
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I wish this thread had been labeled, "Don't let those on the other side of this debate bring you down." I say that because I am on both sides of this debate. Dr. Paul wouldn't still be in the race if he didn't feel that making a splash at the convention has the potential to do some good. That said, he wouldn't be running for re-election if he didn't think we could do some good in Congress. I am in full support of trying to some good in both places.

Don't we have enough of an uphill battle without working against each other? Both scenarios have potential to aid the common cause, in my humble opinion. I really, really don't understand the clash.
 
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