Does Ron Paul support Reparations

[ronordennis]

Smart Reparations

A "reparations policy" implies a governmental program. Government can only get the money required for such a program through taxation, or theft. Do you think the problems of slavery run so deep that it demands a huge increase in the government mandated theft that is going on in this country?

Yes, slavery left a real mess that we can see just about everywhere. I think it shows up in just about every public policy question we have in this country, and race can derail any public discussion. We have got to get past this issue to move forward. America's future is too important to keep being dragged down with this stuff. With the combined talent from so many different types of people, can you imagine where we'd be as a nation if slavery and segregation had never happened? if everybody had just been allowed to emigrate and been treated the same?

Reparations would be a government program, like the common defense and general welfare. It represents an increase in government theft only if ALL taxes are theft. Those taxes that we'd pay if given a choice are not theft. I think reparations should be something we could choose to pay taxes for when all the other taxpayer-funded programs became voluntary. (It should be mandatory while the others are mandatory.)

If we knew RP's position on this issue, there'd be no point to the discussion. I don't know his position, and I think he'd support them if designed properly.

 

[Catatonic]

Slavery wasn't against the law at the time so I don't see the need for reparations. There have been horrible things done to people throughout history that were acceptable at the time. How about reparations for people who's families were burned in witch hunts? My grandparents fled Germany during world war 2 for obvious reasons, will BMW give me a free car?

I honestly think this is just another issue that in the end will just cause more segregation. How about the Africans that sold slaves to the white devils? Are they going to pay reperations too? All of this based on the idea that throwing money at something makes it all better. I grew up feeling guilty for slavery because I'm white and my family wasn't even in this country when it was going on. Can we move on already? Do we really need a slavery/race tax to go with our carbon tax? We know who the money will be cycled to in the end anyway, one way or another.

My family's germanic tribe was oppressed by the Romans, maybe they can throw a ferrari into the deal. That would make it all better! Great great great great great great grandfather Johanz, I'm sorry your tribe was subjugated by Rome, but your spirit can rest easy now, because I can do 0-60 in under 5 seconds, and the ladies LOVE it.

Ron Paul is generally opposed to nonsense so I don't think he would support this.

 

[ErikBlack]

Reparations probably wouldn't help the situation, but there sure would be a lot of old cars on the road sporting shiny, new chrome rims

 

[xao]

I think reparations would go against the whole concept of freedom.

None of us are old enough to have experienced slavery, and nothing can make someone forfeit their property to those affected by the men of the past. That's like locking up a son because his estranged father killed someone.

Ron Paul supports charity, however.

Anyone that is filled with racist guilt for something they had nothing to do with is a total moron. I never owned a slave, in fact, I would fancy a guess that not a living American today ever owned, or was, a slave.

Unconstitutional programs like Affirmative action are a slap in the face to the idea of equality, anyone that thinks differently is dilusional.

People who owned slaves should pay reparations. People who didn't shouldn't. And people who were slaves should get reparations.

Unfortunately, all those people died over a hundred+ years ago. Reparations today would mean punishing people for the sins of their great-great-grandfathers. And what about people of mixed slaveowner/non-slaveowner/slave heritage? How would you even determine that?

 

[Ragnar]

People who owned slaves should pay reparations. People who didn't shouldn't. And people who were slaves should get reparations.

The Constitution explicitly forbids ex post facto laws: Article I, Section 9:

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.


Therefore, it's abundantly clear that any "reparations" are unconstitutional, and from that you'll know Ron Paul's position.

PS: For those who don't know, an ex post facto law is one that punishes a person for something they did BEFORE the activity was declared illegal. For example, it's now illegal to drive without a seatbelt. Ex post facto would be the government penalizing a person TODAY for driving without a seatbelt back in, say, 1970, before such laws were passed.

 

[xao]

The Constitution explicitly forbids ex post facto laws: Article I, Section 9:

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.


Therefore, it's abundantly clear that any "reparations" are unconstitutional, and from that you'll know Ron Paul's position.

PS: For those who don't know, an ex post facto law is one that punishes a person for something they did BEFORE the activity was declared illegal. For example, it's now illegal to drive without a seatbelt. Ex post facto would be the government penalizing a person TODAY for driving without a seatbelt back in, say, 1970, before such laws were passed.

Actually I was being sort of sarcastic when I said that one part. You may have noticed this,

Unfortunately, all those people died over a hundred+ years ago.

Anyone that is filled with racist guilt for something they had nothing to do with is a total moron. I never owned a slave, in fact, I would fancy a guess that not a living American today ever owned, or was, a slave.

Unconstitutional programs like Affirmative action are a slap in the face to the idea of equality, anyone that thinks differently is dilusional.

And yes I agree. Totally unconstitutional.

 

[Ragnar]

Actually I was being sort of sarcastic when I said that one part. You may have noticed this...

I thought you might have been.

I mainly posted because the issue is so clear, yet people are somehow arguing it. Reparations are unconstitutional!

 

[Goldwater Conservative]

My family came here in the midst of integration. I should hope I'm not compelled to pay reparations, or that somebody like me can get them just because they're black.

 

[nexalacer]

Yes, slavery left a real mess that we can see just about everywhere. I think it shows up in just about every public policy question we have in this country, and race can derail any public discussion. We have got to get past this issue to move forward. America's future is too important to keep being dragged down with this stuff. With the combined talent from so many different types of people, can you imagine where we'd be as a nation if slavery and segregation had never happened? if everybody had just been allowed to emigrate and been treated the same?

Reparations would be a government program, like the common defense and general welfare. It represents an increase in government theft only if ALL taxes are theft. Those taxes that we'd pay if given a choice are not theft. I think reparations should be something we could choose to pay taxes for when all the other taxpayer-funded programs became voluntary. (It should be mandatory while the others are mandatory.)

If we knew RP's position on this issue, there'd be no point to the discussion. I don't know his position, and I think he'd support them if designed properly.

So your position is not all taxes are theft because the ones that we'd pay if given a choice are moral?

Well, I wouldn't choose to pay any of the taxes currently offered because I think a free market solution to every need I have would be better because of efficiency and morality. So, with that in mind, do you support the government's use of force to take taxes from me? That is, if I don't pay, do you support me being thrown in prison (subject to possible rape) or killed if I resist imprisonment?

 

[Kingfisher]

I'm positive R.P. would not support reparations. But if you feel guilty you are absolute allowed to turn over some of your hard earned cash to a black person.

 

[blacksforronpaul]

America is no where close to doing anytype of reparations. Yes independently if you want to study the issue thats fine. But THERE ARE BIGGER ISSUES ON THE TABLE RIGHT NOW.

 

[MrCobaltBlue]

I'm sure he takes the same position as the Congressional Medal of Honor, he's more than happy to put $X towards reparations, but he won't spend taxpayers money on something that they didn't do.

 

[JenaS62]

I read somewhere that the term African American is now passe and black is the new acceptable term as it should be. If they can call me white, I should be able to call them black or brown or whatever.

 

[blacksforronpaul]

huh? It doesnt matter please these topics are smokescreens to keep Ron Paul from getting elected

 

[azminuteman]

I really don't think so. Would be a governmental re-distribution of wealth.

I hope this is not some misunderstanding of something I posted earlier today (either on this forum or on "ronpaulforum"). In that discussion, there was talk that Kucinich would be a good VP for Dr. Paul.

I stated my dislike for Kucinich because he (Kucinich) is in favor of reparations. He stated that position in the Democrat CNN/youtube debate.

I thought reparations would be a very un- Ron Paul position.

I believe it was called 'Welfare' paid for by the tax payers of the US

 

[xao]

If one wants to donate to any charity or cause, they are free to do so.

 

[ronordennis]

This thread is rife with a guilt reaction that really gets in the way of rational discussion on the topic. It's the best demonstration of why we need to get past this race stuff. No one living today has reason to feel guilty about slavery, and no one here has proposed writing checks or providing ANY benefits specifically to black people living today, none of whom endured slavery. It would do no good whatsoever to simply pay black people, even if you could figure out who's "black", because the money probably would be wasted. (That has nothing to do with black people per se, but more to do with what happens to a poor man who wins the lottery. He's poor again in five years, studies show.)

But it seems obvious, to me at least, that there are lots of people in this country who are not operating at full capacity, and some of that has to do with the legacies of slavery. The victims are NOT solely black people. Look in any trailer park and you'll see lots of white people whose ancestors were denied adequate wages and other benefits because they were competing for work with slaves. They deserve reparations just as much as those slaves' descendants because our government's policies caused them harm. {Whether those policies were legally right or wrong at the time, they were wrong and should be redressed. Hitler never broke German law.}

But this thread is not about whether reparations are good or bad; it's about whether RP would support them as president. After reading everyone's comments, I still think he would, as long as they're not race-based. The guy is legit, a patriot, and head and shoulders above the rest of the pack in intellect. The clarity he has on the Fed, the IRS, the danger to our civil rights, and the Constitution in general (check his integrity on the Rosa Parks Memorial resolution, for instance) means he has a long-term perspective on the country's prospects. He understands that the Constitution is RADICAL and worth being a radical to support it. I think he knows it's the best recipe ever given for long-term freedom and self-government. I think he gets that the legacies of slavery and segregation act as a check on the country's progress, even its survival.

I think we can all agree that the issues of slavery and segregation, and race in general perhaps, need to be dealt with. They are dragging us down. We're 200+ years old as a nation, and this ugly legacy is a part of our heritage. Like it or not, it's a part of who we are as Americans. Old people will tell you that everyone screws up in life. The same is true of countries. The important thing is to fix your screw-ups and move on. If you don't, they fester and limit your growth. The option of telling your victims to get over it doesn't realistically exist. We can get to our first millennium as a country having dealt with this, or we can limp on off the world stage in another 200+ years. I think RP (and any serious national leader) knows this, and so he's still in the running for my vote.

 

[DerekOfCPlusPlus]

This thread is rife with a guilt reaction that really gets in the way of rational discussion on the topic. It's the best demonstration of why we need to get past this race stuff. No one living today has reason to feel guilty about slavery, and no one here has proposed writing checks or providing ANY benefits specifically to black people living today, none of whom endured slavery. It would do no good whatsoever to simply pay black people, even if you could figure out who's "black", because the money probably would be wasted. (That has nothing to do with black people per se, but more to do with what happens to a poor man who wins the lottery. He's poor again in five years, studies show.)

If studies show they lose all that money in 5 years, then what about reparations?

But it seems obvious, to me at least, that there are lots of people in this country who are not operating at full capacity, and some of that has to do with the legacies of slavery. The victims are NOT solely black people. Look in any trailer park and you'll see lots of white people whose ancestors were denied adequate wages and other benefits because they were competing for work with slaves. They deserve reparations just as much as those slaves' descendants because our government's policies caused them harm. {Whether those policies were legally right or wrong at the time, they were wrong and should be redressed. Hitler never broke German law.}

I actually live in area's near these trailer parks, and I've had to struggle a bit in my early child hood with such things. My mother's side of her family is largely on welfare(a form of a reparation), however my mother was educated and received an M.D. in english and education.

My mother knew how to get out of the cycle, and she did very damn well for herself and her kids.

I think if we are to seriously fix a lot of these issues, we need to look at education.
Most poor people are poorly educated. Not because they can't go to school(there are charitable organizations that can help) but because they either don't want an education or because the education they receive is sub-par.

You have things like "no child left behind" and get seniors in high-school who don't know the basic water cycle. My dad, also a teacher, deals with the children who were obviously left behind, that the system tried to keep at pace. He sees this day in and out it frankly, it sickens him.

Then you have teachers who are underpayed and(or) undereducated(like what happened at my mother's school. They fired all the old staff and got a bunch of idiots almost straight out of college)

FYI: The kids hate there hate the new staff.

I think that if we actually had better public schools by removing the federal government out of it, then we might see change.

You can't just throw money at a problem and expect it to be fixed. Things like welfare are just a blanket to shield a known problem instead of fixing it. You need change in legislation to occur, and you need the public backing to get it done.

also:

What about the poor people who were born poor, but got out the vicious cycle? They must not deserve anything because now they are better off, right. But how can we ignore that? If my mother did it, than so should other people too. Try to look at through my eyes, someone like me who comes from a poor background. I frankly don't care about people who don't want to take their life into their own hands. There are many options available. Such as joining the military(which help pay for college and give great life experiences), taking charity to help pay for school, even taking online classes at a local library. I admit that there is a point of no return, but some of these people (had)have the choice to make that decision in their life.

It's a tragedy, I admit, but it not the problem that any government needs to(or even can) fix by throwing money at.

Finally, I doubt Ron Paul supports reparations.

 

[blacksforronpaul]

Threads like this are designed to keep many people away from Ron Paul and lead a discussion that is so theoretical that it just distracts a lot of people from reality... If we dont get ron paul in will all need reparations..!!

join me on my show Why African Americans should vote for Ron Paul
www.blogtalkradio.com/blacksforronpaul
and discuss it!