Do you believe that these transgender men should use female designated restrooms?

[dannno]

False choice argument is false. Really both sides of this argument are wrong. It's stupid to say that someone who's obviously a man by appearance should be allowed to use the ladies room just because he "feels like a woman." On the flip side it's stupid to say that someone who, by appearance, looks 100% like a man should have to use the ladies room. It's really simple. Don't ask, don't tell. If you look like you're in the wrong bathroom you probably are. The LGBT zealots started this fight by insisting on the "Use the bathroom you feel like using" rule and trying to force that stupidity on everybody else.

The OP was actually VERY specific... do you think the people pictured in the OP should use the men's room or the women's room? I vote men's room.

Does that mean I think a guy who looks like them, but thinks he is a woman inside, or at least says so, should use the women's restroom? Not necessarily, and probably in fact not.

You're right that the issue is very complicated, and both sides who take hard-line stances are wrong. But you can easily answer the very specific question in the OP.

 

[dannno]

I didn't say they were...I was commenting on "transexualism" in general.

These are not men. Even if they may "pass" visually as men they are not. They are women with a severe mental illness and it disgusts me that society is cheering them on as they mutilate their bodies and pump themselves full of artificial hormones.

That wasn't the poll question - the poll question was which restroom should they use.

Even you aren't dumb enough to say you think they should use the women's room.

The question had nothing to do with celebrating transgenderism.

 

[presence]

Are you advocating the assault of individuals?

If they don't don't leave when I tell them they're trespassing, seems appropriate.
I'm of the opinion that the establishment owner would be in the right to kick them out of either the men's or women's room.
Crossdressing is par to public masturbation; a fetishism that no business owner should have to tolerate.
GTFO should be a poll option.

 

[NotAnIllegalImmigrant]

So.... do you think they should use female restrooms then?

They should use whatever restroom provided to them at the psychiatric ward.

 

[dannno]

If you were born with Y you belong in the men's room.
If you weren't born with a Y you belong in the woman's room.

If you play dress up, have a genital mutilation fetish, or are hooked on hormone drugs...
doesn't change whether you're male or female, but it might be a sign you belong in a padded room.
Being transgender is the new anorexia; a nervous, image oriented, self destructive mental disorder that shouldn't be molly coddled any more so than being a junkie.

So you are saying the people in the OP should use the women's restroom? That seems completely insane to me. Imagine your daughter in there, and those two "women" walk in. They should be using the men's room, or some type of unisex restroom if available, even though they were born women.. but they should NOT use the women's restroom, that is just completely crazy.

 

[dannno]

If they don't don't leave when I tell them they're trespassing, seems appropriate.
I'm of the opinion that the establishment owner would be in the right to kick them out of either the men's or women's room.
Crossdressing is par to public masturbation; a fetishism that no business owner should have to tolerate.
GTFO should be a poll option.

That is bullshit - if those guys walked into your establishment you would have no idea they were transgender. They would walk into the men's room, you wouldn't think anything of it.

 

[presence]

So you are saying the people in the OP should use the women's restroom? That seems completely insane to me.

NO.

I'm of the opinion that if I own the restroom and I don't like who enters the door, I should be able to say GTFO, I don't care what the reason is.

That is bull$#@! - if those guys walked into your establishment you would have no idea they were transgender. They would walk into the men's room, you wouldn't think anything of it.

perhaps not, and if this is the case the issue is moot and trifling


usage of a privately owned rest room should be per the grace of the establishment owner or his agent not per the prerogative and sense of entitlement of the patron.

If you're a man dressed as a woman and you go in the ladies room and owner says GTFO: I say GTFO or I'm with tod evans
If you're a man dressed as a woman and you go in the mens room and owner says GTFO: I say GTFO or I'm with tod evans
If you're a woman dressed as a man and you go in the ladies room and owner says GTFO: I say GTFO or I'm with tod evans
If you're a woman dressed as a man and you go in the mens room and owner says GTFO: I say GTFO or I'm with tod evans

If you're a man or a woman and the establishment owner or his agent says GTFO for any reason: I say GTFO or I'm with tod evans

the proprietors option to say GTFO and enforce it is the right of property

 

[dannno]

Why is there no "Beaten about the head and shoulders with a blunt object." option on your poll?

This is also bullshit.

If you saw these 'guys' walking down the street, or walking into the men's room you wouldn't take a second glance at them. There is no tattoo on their forehead that says they are transgender or transvestite or whatever.

 

[dannno]

I'm of the opinion that if I own the restroom and I don't like who enters the door, I should be able to say GTFO, I don't care what the reason is.

This is completely irrelevant to the topic.

It boggles my mind how a few of you guys here are really smart about a lot of things, you're a fuckin genius when it comes to a lot of things, but when it comes to topics like this you just get completely irrational.

Just stop and think about it for a minute. The only reason you know those guys were born women is because the OP told you they were, and because when their shirts are off the nipples are a little out of place. If these guys walked in and used your restroom, they would be wearing shirts and you wouldn't do a god damn thing, you would have no idea they were transgender, they would use the men's room and that is that.

 

[tod evans]

This is also bullshit.

If you saw these 'guys' walking down the street, or walking into the men's room you wouldn't take a second glance at them. There is no tattoo on their forehead that says they are transgender or transvestite or whatever.

The poll doesn't say walking down the street does it?

The poll is specifically about those two with the knowledge that they are women playing dress-up.

Given the prescribed metrics my question was both relevant and on point whether or not you or Reason wants to address it.

 

[presence]

you would have no idea they were transgender, they would use the men's room and that is that

this goes back to the issue being moot
if a tree falls in the woods does anyone hear it?

In the op we're presented with a "transgender men"; for the sake of the op's poll I can't dismiss this fact.

My suggestion to anyone attempting to do what's in the op is that they recognize that a property owner, if aware and so inclined, may consider the presence of their fetishism a trespass regardless of their intentions. In a free market, they should anticipate this and be prepared to leave if asked.

 

[dannno]

The poll is specifically about those two with the knowledge that they are women playing dress-up.

No, you got it wrong about the knowledge aspect of the question. YOU have the knowledge, the property owner whose restroom they are using does not have the knowledge. Nobody on the property has the knowledge. You are not at the property, and if you were then you wouldn't have the knowledge, you are being given this knowledge outside of being at the geographic location and are simply choosing which restroom they should use. Men's room or women's room, very simple. If they use the men's room, nobody says peep and everything is fine. If you say women's room, then there is a huge commotion and everybody freaks out. Little girls possibly scarred for life. It's a pretty fucking simple choice.

 

[PierzStyx]

I've never really cared where people took a dump or speculated if some dude was born without a penis.

I think that private property owners should be able to determine that. Including allowing men to enter women's restrooms or not. That is what private property rights is about. You don't need government to legislate it either way.

 

[tod evans]

No, you got it wrong about the knowledge aspect of the question. YOU have the knowledge, the property owner whose restroom they are using does not have the knowledge. Nobody on the property has the knowledge. You are not at the property, and if you were then you wouldn't have the knowledge, you are being given this knowledge outside of being at the geographic location and are simply choosing which restroom they should use. Men's room or women's room, very simple. If they use the men's room, nobody says peep and everything is fine. If you say women's room, then there is a huge commotion and everybody freaks out. Little girls possibly scarred for life. It's a pretty fucking simple choice.

How in the fuck did I misinterpret?;

Poll: Do you believe that these transgender men should use female designated restrooms?

And where did you draw the conclusion that their actual gender was unknown from what was written?

 

[dannno]

Whoever voted "Yes" obviously doesn't have children, or they aren't thinking straight. I don't have kids, but if I had daughters I would not want those people walking into the women's restroom. You've got to be completely nuts.

 

[dannno]

How in the fuck did I misinterpret?;



And where did you draw the conclusion that their actual gender was unknown from what was written?

The question was NOT, "If these people walked into your business establishment and told you they were transgender and wanted to use the men's room, what would you say?"

That is what you and presence are insinuating the question was, and it most certainly was NOT that.

What it actually is:

Pretend you are playing a video game, except it's controlling people in real life. Pretend you are at a pizza joint with arcades, lots of families and kids, and these two people are sitting at a booth in the corner enjoying some pizza and some beer.

One of them has to go to the restroom, they get up and walk towards the restroom and you have the controller in your hand. They can either go in the men's room, and nothing will happen, nobody will freak out, nobody will get beaten, NOTHING bad will happen. Or they can go into the women's room and scar some young girls and freak out half the people in the restaurant and cause a scene.

The third choice you have is to pee on the floor in front of everybody because he has to pee really bad.

This is not a difficult choice to make.

 

[PierzStyx]

Whoever voted "Yes" obviously doesn't have children, or they aren't thinking straight. I don't have kids, but if I had daughters I would not want those people walking into the women's restroom. You've got to be completely nuts.

Why? are you afraid every "transgender" person is a rapist? Or that your daughter might be a lesbian?

 

[tod evans]

The question was NOT, "If these people walked into your business establishment and told you they were transgender and wanted to use the men's room, what would you say?"

That is what you and presence are insinuating the question was, and it most certainly was NOT that.

What it actually is:

Pretend you are playing a video game, except it's controlling people in real life. Pretend you are at a pizza joint with arcades, lots of families and kids, and these two people are sitting at a booth in the corner enjoying some pizza and some beer.

One of them has to go to the restroom, they get up and walk towards the restroom and you have the controller in your hand. They can either go in the men's room, and nothing will happen, nobody will freak out, nobody will get beaten, NOTHING bad will happen. Or they can go into the women's room and scar some young girls and freak out half the people in the restaurant and cause a scene.

The third choice you have is to pee on the floor in front of everybody because he has to pee really bad.

This is not a difficult choice to make.

Sorry man I'm playing the hand I was dealt by the OP, not some what-if supposition you bring after the fact..

Besides, my initial comment was a query directed to the OP, the query you chose to label BS because you inferred evidence not presented.

Start a thread with specifics, maybe I'll chime in...

For the record; I accept that some people consider trans-whatever to be a real thing, I don't.

 

[presence]

if I had daughters I would not want those people walking into the women's restroom

I wouldn't either.

I'd like to live in a society where people who choose to be libertine freaks can be legally ostracised from private businesses;
asked to leave at the owner's discretion upon approaching the front door.

Neither using the establishment rest room of the sex you look like, or the sex you actually are, should be a government granted entitlement.
Your usage of facilities should be at the sole discretion of the business owner.

 

[dannno]

this goes back to the issue being moot
if a tree falls in the woods does anyone hear it?

It's not moot, the OP is asking which restroom should they use, in general, considering that most business owners HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH TRANSGENDER PEOPLE.. You don't get to make decisions for other business owners, most business happily welcome transgender people so when they go into those establishments, for example, which bathroom should they use? Again, the OP didn't specify this was your establishment and you had the knowledge, so I don't know why you would assume that or why you would project your values on all other business owners.

The vast majority of the population doesn't want to beat up transgender people like tod, and in fact most are pretty accepting of them. I don't encourage the behavior, I don't think they are brave, I think it is fairly destructive but ultimately it is their choice and that choice in and of itself I have no real problem with and also would not kick them out of my establishment if I owned one. I would prefer they use the restroom that my customers would be most comfortable with them using. In most cases, that is the men's room - in a few cases, some people born men pass really well as women and like your tree falling in the woods theory I would be ok with them using the women's room. If they don't pass well, I would prefer they use the men's room and I might even ask them to.

If one votes for the female restroom in the poll, then guess what? This tree is NO LONGER FALLING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WOODS but on top of a bunch of people. If you say the men's room, then the tree falls in the woods.