Do you actively listen to FDR (Freedomain Radio, Stefan Molyneux) ?

Do you actively listen to FDR (Freedomain Radio, Stefan Molyneux) ?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 16 45.7%
  • Not yet!

    Votes: 19 54.3%

  • Total voters
    35
I don't like the poll options ("yet") so I'm not voting. But no, I don't listen at all. Any anarcho-capitalist, or any stateless society for that matter, would easily be defeated through espionage, monopoly control of finite resources, or a foreign military force. No State is there to control society's morality, culture, or stop unfavorable business practices. Not sure what to think about his atheism, since he never really debates any serious theist philosophers.
 
I don't like the poll options ("yet") so I'm not voting. But no, I don't listen at all. Any anarcho-capitalist, or any stateless society for that matter, would easily be defeated through espionage, monopoly control of finite resources, or a foreign military force. No State is there to control society's morality, culture, or stop unfavorable business practices. Not sure what to think about his atheism, since he never really debates any serious theist philosophers.
This has already been addressed a million times on these forums and by Stef. Unless you have an original argument or counter-argument, posts like this are a waste of your (and everyone's) time.
 
I don't like the poll options ("yet") so I'm not voting. But no, I don't listen at all. Any anarcho-capitalist, or any stateless society for that matter, would easily be defeated through espionage, monopoly control of finite resources, or a foreign military force. No State is there to control society's morality, culture, or stop unfavorable business practices. Not sure what to think about his atheism, since he never really debates any serious theist philosophers.

What books have you read that explain how a stateless society would work?
 
I've read Molyneux's books before, Spooner's material, and listened to anarchists on youtube (Xomniverse, Aaron, Fringe, Alex, etc..) for years now. I've heard of Molyneux's theories on how any new State would not originate, and how war would be prevented. They simply wouldn't work in real life, way too simplistic, way too many variable he hasn't even mentioned.
 
I've read Molyneux's books before, Spooner's material, and listened to anarchists on youtube (Xomniverse, Aaron, Fringe, Alex, etc..) for years now. I've heard of Molyneux's theories on how any new State would not originate, and how war would be prevented. They simply wouldn't work in real life, way too simplistic, way too many variable he hasn't even mentioned.

ReasonableThinker said:
Reason said:
Life without government? Really? Here's how it works - and why it is so crucial!
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FreedomainRadio/~3/w9yFCze2aZY/stateless_society_take_2_320.mp3

I know all about Stateless political theory. The fact is the vast majority of human conquest has been centralized States over decentralized areas. Rome Vs. Gaul. Rome vs. Britons. Islamic conquests of Arabia and Berber Africa, European conquest of the amerindians. There's too much wrong with statelessness to get into all of it, but the military example is one of the crucial points. What is needed is authoritarian aristocracy. Such as Fascism or Monarchism.

You're on a Ron Paul forum advocating for Fascism or Monarchism? O.o
 
I don't agree with his complete anarchy views, but he does explain things like free markets, religion, and history etc. very well and clear.

Also, his accent is pretty awesome. I don't know why. Sometimes it sounds more British-like and sometimes more American. Very unique
 
Hoppe would agree that Monarchism is less bad (as opposed to "good") than republicanism or democracy-and I do too.

Hoppe argued that monarchism is less bad in the short and medium term than a democracy, but that in the end they are both shit. He didn't compare monarchism to republicanism.
 
Regarding non-voting and such, if I understand correctly the idea is that to vote is to consent to the system. A position which Rothbard quite rationally debunks.

I don't say you should just vote for anyone who comes your way, but frankly, if you won't vote for Ron Paul, you're an idiot, period. IIRC Stephan Mollineux didn't support Ron at all, and IIRC one of his reasons was "He doesn't believe in evolution."

Apparently he also believes in "Peaceful Parenting." Personally, I don't think the non-aggression principle should apply to parents and their children, but that's just me. I don't see that as in any way similar to the relationship between the state and its subjects. One of my biggest problem with the State, other than that it kills people of course, is that it treats adults like they're children.

I'm not an anarchist either, but that's a lesser issue.

For all that, he probably says a lot of good things, but I'm not crazy about my first impression just from that.
 
Regarding non-voting and such, if I understand correctly the idea is that to vote is to consent to the system. A position which Rothbard quite rationally debunks.

My understanding is that his reasoning on why voting is not worthwhile is from more of an econ standpoint.

ie: If you're more likely to die in a car crash driving to a polling station than influence the outcome of the election...

I also don't think that he cares if you want to go vote for Ron Paul etc. He just doesn't see it as accomplishing anything...

ie: Why waste your time voting for your local libertarian candidate who WILL NOT WIN when you could spend your time with your children etc

An analysis of opportunity cost mostly.
 
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My understanding is that his reasoning on why voting is not worthwhile is from more of an econ standpoint.

ie: If you're more likely to die in a car crash driving to a polling station than influence the outcome of the election.

If he had his way, Ron Paul and Rand Paul would not be in office.
 
Hoppe argued that monarchism is less bad in the short and medium term than a democracy, but that in the end they are both shit. He didn't compare monarchism to republicanism.
Republicanism falls under his definition of democracy. The election of representatives is, after all, democratic. Besides, most of the legal and theoretical safeguards against democracy are gone now. You really wouldn't want to live in a republic generally if you're concerned with liberty. Weimar and Soviet Russia were republics, after all.
 
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Yet he only targets the liberty movement and tells them not to vote. Democrat/Progressives treat voting like a religious duty.
Since when? I've only heard him suggest not voting in the broadest sense. (that is, no one voting at all)
 
My understanding is that his reasoning on why voting is not worthwhile is from more of an econ standpoint.

ie: If you're more likely to die in a car crash driving to a polling station than influence the outcome of the election...

I also don't think that he cares if you want to go vote for Ron Paul etc. He just doesn't see it as accomplishing anything...

ie: Why waste your time voting for your local libertarian candidate who WILL NOT WIN when you could spend your time with your children etc

An analysis of opportunity cost mostly.

When you're talking about voting for crap over slightly worse crap, I agree.

But if you aren't voting for a real libertarian, you are part of the problem. The bottom line is that if enough people voted with conviction, Ron Paul would be President right now. I don't give a crap about his pathetic excuses for not doing so.

If you can't vote for someone on principle, that's one thing. I can understand why some people have issues with Rand Paul (Even though I would vote for him), and Ted Cruz actually is too much of a compromise for me. Everyone has their line in the sand. Its the unwillingness to vote under ANY circumstance that irks me. I'm fine with his anarcho-capitalism, I don't agree, but I can understand it. But to refuse to vote for a principled minarchist on miniscule issues or, worse, "Opportunity Cost" (The ethical system of utilitarians, not libertarians*) is just ridiculous. I can understand if you can't vote for an otherwise good candidate because of a substantial issue like foreign policy or the war on drugs, but on anarchist theory? I guess I just feel like that's ridiculous. I can't even imagine an anarcho-capitalist actually running the country any differently than Ron Paul, even if he did have a slightly different view as to the theoretical endgame.

In short, I'm sticking with my statement. If Ron Paul was the Republican candidate, and libertarians listened to this moron, Obama would be in office again. Now, I get that that sounds like the scaremongering used by Mitt drones, but a person who can't see the difference between Ron Paul and Romney in this regard isn't worth my time to begin with.

I consider the absolute "Lesser of two evils" people to be just as dumb as the "Don't vote ever" people...

If he had his way, Ron Paul and Rand Paul would not be in office.

I'm glad Rand is where he is, but I do have a few issues with him, and wouldn't absolutely discredit someone for not voting for Rand because of those substantial issues. His foreign policy isn't quite what Ron Paul's is, and he doesn't want to legalize drugs. That said, I still do support him, and I do think libertarians should support him, but as he's not a libertarian himself (At least not openly), I can understand having a strict enough line in the sand that counts Rand out. Even still, people who do that should still be glad that Rand has that particular senate seat rather than another Lindsey Graham or something.

Ron Paul, on the other hand, is a perfectly principled candidate, and the only things I disagree with him on are minor issues that really just aren't that big a deal. The biggest disagreement I have with him is the one we don't have real control over anyway, and that is how quickly to implement libertarianism (Ron Paul wants to phase things out, I want to get rid of the bad things as quickly as possible, but am aware of the ugly consequences of that stance). To not vote for a candiadate because of tiny issues I consider to be stupid, and the mark of an unintelligent strategist. To not trust Ron Paul I would also view as dumb.
If he had his way there wouldn't be an office to be in.

That's a great ideal, but let's live in the real world. I think roads should be privatized but I'm not going to refuse to pull over a reckless driver just because government shouldn't own the roads. I think schools should be privatized but that doesn't mean that I'm not going to put any effort into making the public schools contain as little indoctrination and as much good edcuation as I can just because my ideal is privatization. I think taxes should be at 5% or less but if there was a bill to set a flat tax rate of 10%, I'd still support it as long as there weren't any drawbacks, exc.

I'll admit I'm not an anarchist. So my end goal isn't a 100% stateless society. However, even if that is your goal, you should be willing to take steps to get closer to that. The reality is, the offices exist so getting good people into them is the best you can do.

Republicanism falls under his definition of democracy. The election of representatives is, after all, democratic. Besides, most of the legal and theoretical safeguards against democracy are gone now. You really wouldn't want to live in a republic generally if you're concerned with liberty. Weimar and Soviet Russia were republics, after all.

The American Republic =/= the Soviet one. I get that we're more of an empire now but we didn't start that way.

This has already been addressed a million times on these forums and by Stef. Unless you have an original argument or counter-argument, posts like this are a waste of your (and everyone's) time.

That its been answered doesn't necessarily mean we agree with the answers or that they are workable.

You're on a Ron Paul forum advocating for Fascism or Monarchism? O.o

Monarchism itself is actually decent in theory. I'd argue it breaks apaart in practice, but in theory, a monarchist minarchy could work. Not all of us are anarchists and neither is Ron.

Fascism, on the other hand... That I cannot justify.
Hoppe would agree that Monarchism is less bad (as opposed to "good") than republicanism or democracy-and I do too.

Why would you argue that, BTW? I'd argue that rapid decentralization is a better idea. Consolidating a lot of power in one man seems even worse than spreading it out amongst a congress. I guess I agree with Lew Rockwell on that one..
 
Why would you argue that, BTW? I'd argue that rapid decentralization is a better idea. Consolidating a lot of power in one man seems even worse than spreading it out amongst a congress. I guess I agree with Lew Rockwell on that one..
A whole book could be written about that (and by golly, Hoppe did it! :) ). Fundamentally, a monarch/sovereign, as primary owner/executive of a given place, has all the incentive to make sure the place is taken care of (this includes keeping people in good condition, as they are necessary in the scheme of things). He also has incentive to not go to war, as this puts his resources at tremendous risk.
Democracies/republics, on the other hand, lack all these incentives to behave rationally and morally. Therefore, the power-holders in such societies satisfy their selfish desires at the expense of the governed and the land. They have everything to gain and shift the risk onto the governed classes.
Further, Total War is a product of democracy/republicanism. Before these heinous systems, soldiers fought other soldiers instead of mass murdering civilians.

These points and others are well-developed in Hoppe's book. I agree with his methodology and conclusions.
 
Since when? I've only heard him suggest not voting in the broadest sense. (that is, no one voting at all)

His target audience are liberty-type people. He tells the liberty-type people not to vote. That's dangerous when only the Big Government people vote.
 
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