Do not call the LA GOP please

[melianthus]

So, you two that made the claim you talked to HQ, who did you talk to?

I don't remember the name of the guy I spoke to. He said they were aware of the situation and agreed that politics is a nasty stinking business.

 

[melianthus]

I would agree if this were in any way similar to what happened and is happening in New Hampshire. But there is no similarity. NO one is accusing anyone of counting the votes incorrectly. There were no "accidents" or anything like that. This was pure old fashioned politicking.

"Ranting and Raving"? No.

But the BS you refer to as "politiking" ain't the ONLY kind. There were plenty of people posting here that a recount in NH was a bad idea because it would "make us look like sore losers".

Well time passed, and more info came out, and it turns out we were right to call for one.... if only to get answers to some questions about HOW these "accidents" were allowed to happen in the first place.

This is no different.

The people we're fighting against are wanna-be bullies. The only thing they fear (because they respect nothing) is "in your face" opposition. Time you woke up and recognized the enemy for what it really is.

 

[affa]

Dear Young at heart,

You do not understand the system you are condemning. All politics is dirty. But there is something equally important to remember: All politics is local.

It simply is NOT the case that there was some character handing out a list of delegates to the befuddled who don't know what they are doing. Most of these people KNOW each other. 99% of the people there KNEW who they were voting for and why.

We were outpoliticked plain and simple. If more people had bothered to come out to the caucuses we would have won without any difficulty. But it didn't happen. And you can blame that on the young. They are the ones who don't bother to go and vote.

Sincerely,
An old person

Dear Old Person,

Blaming the young for not voting is as divisive as blaming the old for voting down party lines.

We understand the system. We understand, as you do, that politics are dirty. We agree - the voters KNEW what they were doing. Here's where we disagree - that doesn't make it right. For example, redistricting is another legal technique that the system uses to effect elections but gaming the system is gaming the system.

All I see is a small group of people trying to silence dissenters through marginalization - calling us children, calling yourselves adults, calling us ill-informed, calling yourselves knowledgeable, calling us brats, calling yourselves responsible.

Don't you think we get enough of that from the mainstream media?

You rail against us for being your definition of 'rude' - but you fail to recognize that any large gathering can be dismissed as 'rude' and that it is this very display of power of the people that has gotten us as far as we've gotten. You fail to recognize that the incidents you decry (such as shouting 'Ron Paul' whereever Rudy shows his face) actually gets us not only attention but a beautiful mainstream Ron Paul interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM3JjVVzUIY

You'd have us sit quiet and lick our wounds. And you know what? We wouldn't even make the news, let alone win over voters.

What you forget is that we are all on the same team. We've gotten this far and we will continue to push further. That means being vocal. Being motivated. Being passionate. And remembering that this entire movement is about liberty and freedom - not about being your definition of 'grownup'.

Respectfully,
The Young at Heart

 

[kevman657]

It's not that we shouldn't be upset. It's that we should consider the effects of our actions. Will calling the GOP multiple times a day help or hurt our situation? What change are you looking to bring about with phone calls? If someone called you complaining Mitt Romney didn't get the delegates he was supposed too, would you care? No...it's not your candidate. If there is true fraud going on here you need to let RP HQs know about it so they can properly handle it. Am I saying you should sit back while we get stepped on? No. But you must consider the consequences of your actions and how it effects the situation at hand.


With that being said, all this arguing over grown ups and the young kids should be getting laughed at more than actually considered. Every individual is different, but discipline improves as your learn more of life's lessons. At the same time, the ability to learn new information weakens as your get older. This means there are advantages to both age groups.

 

[melianthus]

Here's where we disagree - that doesn't make it right.

And this is EXACTLY where the rubber hits the road. It is irrelevant to the world at large if it is "right" or not. The world is not a fair place. And this is doubly so in politics.

In a perfect world, where every one played fairly and was above board, THEN it might matter that these delegates joined together to try and defeat Paul. But we don't live in that world, and in THIS world, it doesn't matter whether it is right or wrong. It simply is the way it is.

Forget about trying to change party politics, it won't happen. If Ron Paul has any chance it will be because before this thing is all over the people in the grassroots will have learned that it is WITHIN this dirty stinking "wrong" political world that we need to win, not in some utopia where everyone plays nice.

That is why the campaign is pushing the canvassing so strongly, because they KNOW that is through the traditional channels that this election will be won.

I AM sorry if you are offended that I point out that people are young, but the fact is that the people here who have been around the political block a few times DO understand how the system works alot better than those who haven't. And we also know that it merely wastes valuable time kvetching about the "unfairness" of it all. And that doesn't mean we don't care. Remember, the reason we are here supporting Dr. Paul is BECAUSE we are idealist.

 

[Redcard]

I would be curious if this has happened in the past.

If I recall correctly, it has. It's not the first time candidates bonded fully together on a caucus slate.

 

[jab2ur]

Agree with original post

Thank for you bringing some calm and reason to the matter.

 

[josh24601]

I would be curious if this has happened in the past.

If I recall correctly, it has. It's not the first time candidates bonded fully together on a caucus slate.

Who let this Illuminati mole in?

 

[TurtleBurger]

I would be curious if this has happened in the past.

If I recall correctly, it has. It's not the first time candidates bonded fully together on a caucus slate.

It caused some bad blood on the Dem side when Kucinich and Richardson backed Obama in Iowa to slow down Hillary. I can't imagine this has ever happened to someone who wasn't an anointed "front runner" though.

 

[Ronin]

Sometimes I wish I were young and clueless again. Bump

 

[Menthol Patch]

The fact of the matter is these uncommitted delegates were indeed committed already.

Each delegate should have to state who or she supports if they are not truly uncommitted.

If it is proven that they are already committed they should face criminal prosecution.

 

[melianthus]

That is not the way the process is governed in Louisiana. Sorry.

The fact of the matter is these uncommitted delegates were indeed committed already.

Each delegate should have to state who or she supports if they are not truly uncommitted.

If it is proven that they are already committed they should face criminal prosecution.

 

[Menthol Patch]

Then the process in Lousiana is a fraud.

 

[jenninlouisiana]

It's Louisiana. We're weird. All delegates are uncommitted-- it's a technical term.

 

[alarga]

People, people - come to your senses.

OF COURSE we shall not let this pass quietly IF it turns out that they cleaned house by smokes and mirrors. OF COURSE we shall go to the mountain tops, rooftops, all kinds of available media and our infamous internets and what have you - and expose their very desperate and perhaps even illegal tactics - which in and of it self is a great push for RP when it gets known. No one doubts this - after all, we are the lunatic fringe (steadily growing unto a majority).

So this is not an issue.

HOWEVER!

Right now we do nothing that can compromise the process. Let's see how it turns out first. Let's not project the worst case scenario before it happens. There will be a lot of bad stuff making up our challenges ahead, just as in the path we've walked so far. No one doubts this.

But it is suicidal to do anything that may hinder our advantage, and if the counting gop'ers get pissed enough, certainly that will not push the scales in our favour. So let's just cool down a bit and conserve energy. Then - eventually - we use that energy either for giving them hell or for partying the momentum of LA success into the next caucus and primary. But right now, let's put our ears down to the tracks and listen - quietly - anticipating and hoping for the best.

I mean - are we not the grassroots with the highest IQ after all?

 

[Liberty]

Any system that allows room for collusion needs to be changed.

 

[Sauron]

Any system that allows room for collusion needs to be changed.

What would you change and how would you do it?

 

[Redcard]

Any system that allows room for collusion needs to be changed.

Uh.. the Ron Paul delegates "colluded" together to form a Ron Paul slate.

Be careful about this. Remember that the LA Caucus serves to elect delegates, and not to elect candidates. If you ban collusion of other delegates on a "pro life slate", then you are banning collusion of your delegates on a "Ron Paul slate", as well as a "Mitt Romney slate."

 

[yankee_blue]

The fact of the matter is these uncommitted delegates were indeed committed already.

You talking about the Ron Paul delegates?

Each delegate should have to state who or she supports if they are not truly uncommitted.

You talking about the Ron Paul delegates?

If it is proven that they are already committed they should face criminal prosecution.

You talking about the Ron Paul delegates?


Drama Queen

 

[Sauron]

Uh.. the Ron Paul delegates "colluded" together to form a Ron Paul slate.

Be careful about this. Remember that the LA Caucus serves to elect delegates, and not to elect candidates. If you ban collusion of other delegates on a "pro life slate", then you are banning collusion of your delegates on a "Ron Paul slate", as well as a "Mitt Romney slate."

Well put. It's all about strategery, as Bush would put it.