Disturbing Trend

[Anne]

I've noticed a disturbing trend on this forum and others wherein Ron Paul supporters are trying to micromanage other Ron Paul supporters. They are telling others what they should and should not do and say and what issues they should discuss when talking about Ron Paul.

I would suggest that you keep your suggestions to yourself and focus on what you yourself can do for Ron Paul. Please don't worry about what others are doing or saying. That is counterproductive.

Ron Paul's platform encompasses all of us. Conspiracy theorists, right-wingers, liberals, libertarians, Democrats, cancer patients in need of medical marijuana for pain relief, 911 Truthers, people who think 911 Truthers are nuts, etc.

The Ron Paul phenomenon is too big to contain. Likewise, you cannot contain the people who are going to support him. If you don't agree with the WAY in which someone is supporting him, I suggest you keep it to yourself. We can all support him in our own way.

If someone wants to wear a shirt with a marijuana leaf on it and the words "Ron Paul for President" then go for it. That's their choice.

If someone is a 9/11 Truth activist and wants to tell others about Ron Paul and 9/11 in the same breath, then I say go for it.

That's why Ron Paul is going to win. Because he appeals to almost everyone in every group once they learn what he stands for: individual freedoms and civil liberties.

If you spend all your time worrying about what types of people are supporting Ron Paul, that's valuable time lost in telling someone how YOU feel about Ron Paul.

Focus on the positive and focus on the things you can control. You can't control other people. You can only control yourself.

 

[jon_perez]

If you don't agree with the WAY in which someone is supporting [Ron Paul], I suggest you keep it to yourself.

Unfortunately, that would mean an absence of freedom of expression...

 

[Anne]

Unfortunately, that would mean an absence of freedom of expression...

You have the right to do it, but it makes you look like an idiot and a fascist. Think about what you are doing and saying. Everytime someone says 9/11 truthers should shut up about Ron Paul, that's a slap in the face to everything Ron Paul stands for: freedom of expression and questioning of the government.

Did nothing in what I wrote mean anything to you? I am starting to get scared by you guys. This isn't fascistforum.com is it?

 

[Anne]

Unfortunately, that would mean an absence of freedom of expression...

And please note the word "suggest." I "suggest" you keep it to yourself in the interest of fairness and decency. If I see one more post whining about 911 Truthers "ruining" Ron Paul's campaign or "hemp lovers" doing the same, I am going to throw up.

Wouldn't it be fantastic if all 911 Truthers supported Ron Paul? Wouldn't it be wonderful if all people who thought 911 Truthers were crazy supported Ron Paul?

There's room for everyone. Chill out.

 

[DrStrabismus]

If I see one more post whining about 911 Truthers "ruining" Ron Paul's campaign or "hemp lovers" doing the same, I am going to throw up.

Please don't throw up! We need you to keep up your strength.

I think that one of RP's strengths is that he can appeal to a wide variety of people, for many different reasons. The cause of liberty is universal, except to those few people who want to control everyone else. They can be stopped if enough people stand together. RP is a "one issue" candidate: freedom. The great thing is, that almost all other issues spring forth from that.

Unfortunately, I think many people don't understand the concept of liberty (negative liberty, specifically) and many of RP's stances can confuse people because they don't realize where he's coming from. Many people make snap judgments. If people see that Paul voted against a bill that would fight child porn, people think "wow, he supports child porn! how evil!" If people hear that he doesn't support laws against pot, they think "he likes drugs!" Or, if people hear that he may support an independent investigation of 9/11, people think "he must be a conspiracy theorist"

So, I guess what I'm saying is: we really do need to think about conveying the reasoning behind the secondary issues. The only real issue for Ron is freedom.

 

[jon_perez]

You have the right to do it, but it makes you look like an idiot and a fascist. Think about what you are doing and saying. Everytime someone says 9/11 truthers should shut up about Ron Paul, that's a slap in the face to everything Ron Paul stands for: freedom of expression and questioning of the government.

Did nothing in what I wrote mean anything to you? I am starting to get scared by you guys.

Mmm... for what it's worth, I don't believe 9/11 has been explained satisfactorily at all by the US government and that it, in fact, has a lot more explaining to do.

But I certainly consider it very, very irresponsible to make the accusation that the government (or certain people in it) was behind 9/11 and. Foxnews has shown how it can very easily spin this into making people think that Ron Paul himself actually holds such a belief (which he most certainly doesn't).

This isn't fascistforum.com is it?

Speaking of depression, I do find it depressing that some people can't come up with anything more original than that accusation. What's next, "unamerican" ?

 

[AlexAmore]

I think Fox has shown how far one can spin something as innocent as bombings in the middle east for 10 years all the way into 9/11 TRUTHER conspiracy theorist tin foil hatter!!!

If you're going to talk about Ron Paul to a stranger then 9/11 would not be a good thing to say with Ron Paul in the same sentence. You don't want to give them false notions and you don't want to exaggerate it. He said he would investigate it as far as I know.

If you're talking with friends and family then maybe you can talk about whatever you want. With strangers, just talk about his stances that he talks about on HIS WEBSITE so you know you are spreading the message that HE wants to spread.

I don't think it's wrong to talk about how to spread Paul's overall message to America. I think it's crucial, businesses hire entire advertising departments to just focus on the perfect way to say something and to what demographic...ect.

 

[jon_perez]

If someone wants to wear a shirt with a marijuana leaf on it and the words "Ron Paul for President" then go for it. That's their choice.

Of course it is their choice.

Just like if someone wants to wear a shirt with the words "I am a child molester" in front and the words "Ron Paul for President" at the back it's their choice. But don't tell me that wouldn't concern you.

 

[Hawaii Libertarian]

Dr. Paul's Core Messages

If you're talking with friends and family then maybe you can talk about whatever you want. With strangers, just talk about his stances that he talks about on HIS WEBSITE so you know you are spreading the message that HE wants to spread.

I don't think it's wrong to talk about how to spread Paul's overall message to America. I think it's crucial, businesses hire entire advertising departments to just focus on the perfect way to say something and to what demographic...ect.

I'm sure Dr. Paul and his campaign director and staff have taken a lot of time to carefully consider his public platform that he wishes to campaign on. We all should respect that. Here's the link to Dr. Paul's issues page from the official campaign web site. We all can safely assume that these are the messages Dr. Paul wants us to advance when talking about him.

Anything else not on this page is basically "off message" and could be perceived as a distraction from achieving the objective we all seek--Dr. Paul's election as President.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/html/Issues_fx.html

 

[MsDoodahs]

Just out of curiousity, I looked around to see if any well known pollsters had done any polls to see how americans feel on 9/11.

REMEMBER: I DO NOT TRUST POLLING DATA FOR VARIOUS REASONS.

Zogby did some polling on this subject.

Read about it here:

http://www.zogby.com/features/features.dbm?ID=231


I am by no means a 'truther,' because I don't think our government could find its way out of an open paper grocery sack.

I also don't believe that those who believe otherwise (9/11 truthers) are a threat to Dr. Paul. They don't get to dictate what HE believes.

HE DOES.

And I have confidence that he will be directly asked what he thinks about it, and I have confidence that he will be his usual open, honest, and REAL self as to what he thinks.

THAT is good enough for me.

 

[kylejack]

I will continue to speak out when 9/11 Truthers tie themselves to Ron Paul. We've got enough trouble already without conspiracy theorists tainting Ron Paul's campaign.

 

[furface]

>>>I've noticed a disturbing trend on this forum and others wherein Ron Paul supporters are trying to micromanage other Ron Paul supporters.<<<

Let it go. When my boss tries to micromanage me, it's an issue for me. When someone on an Internet forum tries to do it, there's the trusty next message button.

I personally find the SUGGESTIONS of voting in polls and watching videos to be very informative. I don't take them as strict instructions, obviously.

 

[MsDoodahs]

I'm not saying for you not to speak out.

It is up to each individual to decide how to conduct themselves in all areas of life, not just in this campaign.

 

[Bryan]

Nice discussion with lots of good perspectives. My take is we don't want to attack peoples free expression here and I think Josh is resolved to that end minus certain limitations for obvious trolls, so in this way, I certainly do agree with Anne. I do still think though that Hawaii Libertarians states what I am attempting to best do, focus on the message that Dr. Paul lists on his campaign web site- there are so many important issues listed that so many Americans can get a new perspective on from Dr. Paul that there just isn't a need to stray off these at this point and maybe onto something more controversial.

It would seem however that if someone felt very compelled to want to say something about someone else approach to consider the following:
- Determine if they think it is really worth addressing (very important)
- Consider contacting the person with a PM or make a non-directed post.
- Don't try to tell other what to do or not do, simply explain your perspective of your concern.
- Don't retaliate from any negative response, try to say your peace carefully once.
- Be nice and stay focused.

Just my $0.02. Great to see things staying civil here.

 

[furface]

>>>I will continue to speak out when 9/11 Truthers tie themselves to Ron Paul.<<<

I think you're correct to do this. People will try to blur two distinctly different issues, one that US policies encourage terrorism against the US, and the other less probable concept, that 9/11 was an inside job.

 

[kelldor]

I think Ron Paul would want to include people who seek the truth. That seems to be an underlying theme of his campaign, "just telling the truth", and "speaking truth to authority". I recall him speaking to 9/11 students for truth at a fund raising party once. All he said was that he supports a new independant investigation, and he hasn't looked into it really.

As a personal rule of thumb, any claim I make on conspiratorial topics, I will try to provide evidence to support my position, rather than making groundless claims, out of respect and fairness to those who have legitimate concerns regarding topics that could potentially hurt Ron Pauls campaign. Tollerance would be advised though, as issues like these are a big source of support for Ron Paul. The Alex Jones show (Prisonplanet.com, and Infowars.com) is a big Ron Paul supporter, and he appears on there often.


Kelldor

 

[mdh]

>>>I will continue to speak out when 9/11 Truthers tie themselves to Ron Paul.<<<

I think you're correct to do this. People will try to blur two distinctly different issues, one that US policies encourage terrorism against the US, and the other less probable concept, that 9/11 was an inside job.

This is all well and good, I would just ask hopefully that anyone who does criticize anyone else remember that we're all on the same team here despite disagreements on some individual issues, and that we do everything possible to avoid destructive in-fighting.

Nice discussion with lots of good perspectives. My take is we don't want to attack peoples free expression here and I think Josh is resolved to that end minus certain limitations for obvious trolls, so in this way, I certainly do agree with Anne. I do still think though that Hawaii Libertarians states what I am attempting to best do, focus on the message that Dr. Paul lists on his campaign web site- there are so many important issues listed that so many Americans can get a new perspective on from Dr. Paul that there just isn't a need to stray off these at this point and maybe onto something more controversial.

I'd kind of disagree here. This works well if you're talking to a broad group, or an individual or group with whom you're not familiar. But for individuals and groups with whom you are familiar, your selling points should be tailored to them. If you're talking to a 9/11 Truther or even a hardcore tinfoil hatter, there's no shame in spinning things in a way that's going to appeal most to them. Just be mindful of every word you choose, and every statement you make, and be 100% sure that you're not at all *lying* before you say something. It's never in our interests to misrepresent a position or platform or to outright lie in any context.
Using the same canned talking points over and over again is going to get boring, and besides, people can read the canned lines for themselves quite readily - it's up to us to put things in perspective for them in a way that really brings them on-board.

 

[Craig_R]

I'm with you anne, people please, lets just focus on getting Dr.Paul elected.

Being libertarian minded and more then somewhat of a rebel I don't really take kindly to anyone telling me what I should or should not talk about/wear/think.

I find it Ironic to see such things on a board dedicated to getting the most libertarian man in government elected president.

It has been said that the biggest problem with the Libertarian party is that, getting libertarian minded people to act in concert is like hearding cats...

Lets not let that happen here, we've got a good thing going with support from all factions of american citizens..

I hope we can all focus on a singular goal and get congressman Paul elected, we're going to need a big tent and I welcome anyone willing to vote for Dr. Paul

The rest we can debate elsewhere

 

[kylejack]

I'm with you anne, people please, lets just focus on getting Dr.Paul elected.

Being libertarian minded and more then somewhat of a rebel I don't really take kindly to anyone telling me what I should or should not talk about/wear/think.

I find it Ironic to see such things on a board dedicated to getting the most libertarian man in government elected president.

It has been said that the biggest problem with the Libertarian party is that, getting libertarian minded people to act in concert is like hearding cats...

Lets not let that happen here, we've got a good thing going with support from all factions of american citizens..

I hope we can all focus on a singular goal and get congressman Paul elected, we're going to need a big tent and I welcome anyone willing to vote for Dr. Paul

The rest we can debate elsewhere

Look, if an organization like the KKK were to post here telling us how much they support Ron Paul and how hard they're going to work to get him elected by calling into radio shows and etc, I'd tell them to stand down. 9/11 Truthers aren't that bad, but they do cast a negative pall on the campaign for the average American.

 

[Craig_R]

Look, if an organization like the KKK were to post here telling us how much they support Ron Paul and how hard they're going to work to get him elected by calling into radio shows and etc, I'd tell them to stand down. 9/11 Truthers aren't that bad, but they do cast a negative pall on the campaign for the average American.

I dont care what you would tell them, I'd say welcome. Its called freedom of speech and expression. The first amendment is all inclusive, while I may not like what they say or stand for, I'll defend with my life if need be their right to say it.

If you're uncomfortable with that I hear that china has a system of government that may be more to your liking