Dismantling Justin Amash’s Obstruction Argument

[timosman]

Is it your opinion that any person accused of a crim they did not committ should go about obstructing justice? I thought the idea of justice was to determine someone's guilt or innocence? His DoJ was overseeing the investigation, if was bound to get a fair shake from the investigators and it seems like he did. I say it again, he did not have to obstruct any justice

OK, MR BACKSEAT LAWYER, WHAT EXACTLY DID THE ACCUSED DO? ​

 

[juleswin]

OK, MR BACKSEAT LAWYER, WHAT EXACTLY DID THE ACCUSED DO? ​

The line of argument started with my reply to Danke who suggested that if obstruction was committed that he had to do because of hanging. I am saying that he it wasn't the case i.e. he did not have to do anything but get a defense team and wait for the investigation to terminate.

 

[timosman]

The line of argument started with my reply to Danke who suggested that if obstruction was committed that he had to do because of hanging. I am saying that he it wasn't the case i.e. he did not have to do anything but get a defense team and wait for the investigation to terminate.

What investigation?

 

[juleswin]

What investigation?

Mueller investigation

 

[timosman]

Mueller investigation

That's over. You either present evidence or you will be held in contempt.

 

[timosman]

View attachment 6469

We also have a credible evidence of his wrongdoings. According to a witness testimony he ran around yelling "I am fucked". If this is not a proof of a guilt I don't know what is.

 

[nikcers]

https://youtu.be/CVShkaSGIxM?t=966
"The FBI I guess their job is to interfere with elections here in this country and than blame it on the opposition and get the media to join in." - Ron Paul

 

[Dr.3D]

We also have a credible evidence of his wrongdoings. According to a witness testimony he ran around yelling "I am fucked". If this is not a proof of a guilt I don't know what is.

If he did yell that, it would probably be because 'CONgress' has been obstructing him from getting much done by them, throughout his first term.

Reminds me of a bunch of little kids in the playground yelling, "He threw sand in my hair."

They have nothing but spend all their time doing nothing so as to avoid doing anything constructive.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Rand's take on it...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...o_make_sure_2016_abuses_cant_be_repeated.html

 

[UWDude]

Remember:

Most of these "liberty lovers" who think Trump should be impeached over this, were also accusing us of being "statists" for being outraged over the way Kavenaugh was treated.

 

[dannno]

Think of it this way, imagine a man is falsely accused of rape he did not committ. He can obstruct justice by intimidating the accuser or maybe even stealing the rape kit. Yes, you can obstruct justice out of fear and ignorance even though you are guilty of the underlying crime. I was replying to Danke's comment which suggested that Trump had to do what he did because he was about to be hanged. I say that he wasn't about to be hanged, he is not a normal citizen and he could have skated if he just shut his pie hole up and did what the lawyers tld him to do.

If you read the article in the OP, there were no actual actions taken that can be compared to "stealing the rape kit" or "intimidating the accuser". There are people who claim there are, but if you look at the details in the OP you see they all fall apart.

Let's say a guy was falsely accused of rape by not one, but two women at the guy's apartment. One woman says she was raped, and another woman says she heard it happening from the other room.

Then let's say there is a third woman who was there and she knows for a fact that the rape never occurred, because they were altogether for the entire night and she left with the other women.

The third woman is hesitant to testify honestly because she doesn't want to get involved in going to court, her friends are pressuring her to lie in court (although this cannot be proven in court, we know it to be happening).

So she decides she doesn't want to testify. The man contacts the third girl and tells her that if she goes to court and testifies, and tells the truth, that he will take her on a cruise.

Do you believe that is obstruction of justice?

I mean, it certainly looks bad - as in - the optics of it are bad - to have that type of arrangement... One would hope nobody would find out about the arrangement and justice would be served..

But the fact of the matter is that he is innocent, and he simply wants the girl to testify so that the truth can come out, and justice can be served. So are his actions obstructing justice?

 

[enhanced_deficit]

2020: Neocons Swamp Could Be In Big Trouble

Chances seem to be increasing that GOP-neocon wing could get demolished in 2020 but neocons cabal has deep money pockets on top of Adelson's casinos money is not going to go down without a major fight.
Controversial Nigel Farage's big win in EU could also pose very serious risks to MAGA-Nationalist movement's funding in the US.



One more MAGA skeptic Republican in news this week:

Roy Moore says Trump 'doesn't control who votes': Alabamians are 'smarter than that'

By Sam Dorman | Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/roy...abama-election

By the same token, would your support for any GOP/Libertarian 2020 MAGA's primary challenger depend on who's running against him?

If someone better than MAGA appeared on the scene, would you be open to supporting his challenger?

Yes, I have said so many times.
I have even said I want him to have a challenger that is better than him.

It's still early, so far have not seen strong 2020 MAGA Primary challengers who can forcefully stand up to neocons swamp deep money pockets... but increasing exposure of neocons puppets seems to be creating fertile ground for challenges to come ahead before 2020.



Quote:

https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/1129831615952236546?s=21

Way to call a spade a spade, even if it means getting the GOP all up in arms. Love his pinned tweet too regarding Washington’s quote on towing the party line.

"Let me now...warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally."
—George Washington

If he really believes that, then it's quite Ron Paul-esque trait, speakig his true beliefs instead of pandering by looking at which way wind is blowing... something that is done by 98-99% of politicians many of whom serve lobbies instead of public.

That said, talk of impeachment at this point is bit disruptive to the smooth working of government that is in the middle of many big domestic and globalist spending projects including foreign interventions. At least let the ongoing military escalation with Iran settle or this risks putting security of our closest allies in Israel, Saudi at risk by distracting commander in chief with obstruction drama at the end of years long Russian collusion hoax.

Granted GOP-neocon/zionism wing funded by a famous liberal democrat neocon may not be perfect for America-First agenda but disturbing the apple cart now would just be just too disruptive for government functioning as we saw during recent gov shutdown. Hopefully others in GOP, Weld etc won't start making similar calls scared by fakenews Foxnews poll just out that shows MAGA losing to 3 leading Dems.

Troubling Fox News poll shows 2020 loss

How again did Trump obstruct justice? Also, I cannot side with nailing someone for obstructing justice when then real crime being investigated is non existent. Precedent be damned.

Rebooting obstruction question at this stage is not helpful. But to answer your question, following was sampling of only some of the things being thrown out by TDS critics regarding obstruction charge, there may be other un-redacted stuff, Flynn tapes etc.


Why Mueller did not exonerate POTUS on Obstruction Of Justice charge?

If there was no evidence of Obstruction Of Justice, why he left the door open for the OoJ charge?
Two years of investigations and deliberations ought to be enough, nation really needed a closure on this divisive issue to move on.

Update 1:
This does not seem like obstruction of justice:

March 24, 2019
Barr added that when he and Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein reviewed the full report, the pair concluded that the evidence is “not sufficient”...

Trump retweets meme calling for imprisonment of his own deputy attorney general
By Aaron Rupar Nov 28, 2018

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...ts-meme-imprisonment-rosenstein-obama-mueller


Michael Cohen's lawyer accuses Rudy Giuliani of 'witness tampering

He also said that “calling out a man's father-in-law and wife in order to intimidate the witness is not fair game and it needs to be investigated.”
Davis didn’t spare Trump either.
The lawyer said the president “indisputably intimidates and obstructs justice to prevent a witness from testifying.”

https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...itness-tampering-calls-him-unhinged/23651875/


On Eve of Michael Cohen’s Testimony, Republican Threatens to Reveal Compromising Information

“Hey @michaelcohen212 - Do your wife & father-in-law know about your girlfriends? Maybe tonight would be a good time for that chat. I wonder if she’ll remain faithful when you’re in prison. She’s about to learn a lot,” Mr. Gaetz said on Twitter.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/us/politics/michael-cohen-testimony.html


Mueller refers sex misconduct scheme targeting him to FBI for investigation

Oct. 30, 2018By Brandy Zadrozny, Ben Collins and Tom Winter
Special counsel Robert Mueller last week asked the FBI to investigate a possible scam in which a woman would make false claims that he was guilty of sexual misconduct and harassment, after several political reporters were contacted about doing a story on the alleged misconduct.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ju...cheme-targeting-him-fbi-investigation-n926301


Firm Linked to Israeli Intelligence Ran Pro-Trump Propaganda
Oct 10, 2018 - According to the NYT, Special Counsel Robert Mueller who ... had been revealed that Trump's team hired another Israeli spy firm – Black Cube.


“Morning Joe” co-hosts claim that Jared Kushner attempted to blackmail them

June 30, 2017

Unfortunately, TDS seems to be spreading to conservatives and GOP circles beyond Coulters, GOA leaders, Joe Walshes, Brietbarts, Foxnews etc.

Ex-GOP lawmaker pens op-ed calling for Trump to be impeached

 

[fcreature]

Not sure what is worse for Amash here.

His supporting of thought-crimes and anti-fourth amendment police state tactics.

Or his having all his facts wrong about the case.

What is his motivation here? Is he deliberately lying about what was in the Mueller report and the conclusions drawn from it? If so, why?

 

[nobody's_hero]

how many times do I have to explain it?

H.L.G.O.I. (Hillary Lost, Get Over It)

 

[nikcers]

Not sure what is worse for Amash here.

His supporting of thought-crimes and anti-fourth amendment police state tactics.

Or his having all his facts wrong about the case.

What is his motivation here? Is he deliberately lying about what was in the Mueller report and the conclusions drawn from it? If so, why?

The only real strategy here is that he is using TDS to force and subtley trick the democrats into impeachments on Trump because it would make the democrats lose the presidential race while also convincing the Republican party that America needs FISA reform by tricking Republicans into wanting it by forcing the issue he makes it a talking point and part of the Republican platform. That would be some real 4d chess though.

 

[timosman]

The only real strategy here is that he is using TDS to force and subtley trick the democrats into impeachments on Trump because it would make the democrats lose the presidential race while also convincing the Republican party that America needs FISA reform by tricking Republicans into wanting it by forcing the issue he makes it a talking point and part of the Republican platform. That would be some real 4d chess though.

Justin Amash, a wannabe Puppet Master.

 

[Swordsmyth]

The facts are unknown due to obstruction of justice.

Big cover up op, like 9/11 & JFK. Joe & Jane Sixpack know that LBJ and GHW Bush killed JFK, but the proof has been buried. We'll never know if obstruction of justice was necessary, but it's a virtual certainty that it happened.

Recycled GHW Bushbot fixer.

"If the President does it it's not illegal"

Honest Jeff Sessions was fired for not going along with the coverup.

There was no obstruction.

Go ahead, show us ANY obstruction.

Try discussing the points made in the article.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Is it your opinion that any person accused of a crim they did not committ should go about obstructing justice? I thought the idea of justice was to determine someone's guilt or innocence? His DoJ was overseeing the investigation, if was bound to get a fair shake from the investigators and it seems like he did. I say it again, he did not have to obstruct any justice

Your entire premise is false. Because he did not obstruct anything. He may have wanted to stop this BS, but it didn't happen. Or, are you saying that he should be found guilty of a thought crime?

 

[unknown]

Time for me to take another RPF vacation. Fuck off, you asshoat trolling GOP piece of shit.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to angelatc again.

 

[unknown]

I'll be missing you baby. Please come back soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeTAGlBa1sA

People are scary.

Someone should tell them that words dont equal truth.