Discussion of Working inside the GOP

[Carlybee]

It is not stupid to discuss a new party Barrex. Were the founders stupid to want to break away from King George?
Some here seem incapable of seeing beyond the left/right paradigm. Discussing something shouldn't be a threat to a plan unless the plan is unstable to begin with and my aren't some getting their noses out of joint because they can't force people to acquiesce without question.

 

[tbone717]

It is not stupid to discuss a new party Barrex. Were the founders stupid to want to break away from King George?
Some here seem incapable of seeing beyond the left/right paradigm. Discussing something shouldn't be a threat to a plan unless the plan is unstable to begin with and my aren't some getting their noses out of joint because they can't force people to acquiesce without question.

I'll bite.

So to start a new party you need a lot of people and a ton of money. You need marketing people to be able to promote this new party to the masses so that you have more people willing to donate money and time. You need people willing to put their lives & careers on hold to run for office. You need ballot access - so you need people that are willing to volunteer their time knocking on doors and doing whatever it takes to accomplish that. You need an organizational structure, otherwise you have a bunch of people going off in a thousand different directions. You need places to meet, so you either have to buy or rent space for that. You need websites, phones, employees, television ads, radio ads, paper, buttons, bumper stickers, yard signs, etc.

I am sure that you are aware that there a dozens and dozens of political parties out there. None of them have been able to elect a candidate to a state office (with the exception of the LP & CP who last did it about 10 years ago)

So how do you propose you get all that you need to get started, and to be able to be successful at what so many others have failed at?

 

[cheapseats]

...I think it comes down to two sets of people that were part of the Ron Paul movement...

As an example chosen at random from the bickering audience, Pro Choice and Pro ENJOIN MY BELIEFS UPON OTHERS, UNDER THREAT OF GRAVE PENALTY comprise Irreconcilable Differences.

...one group was myopic and focused solely on the race for the White House; the other had a broader view and saw the nomination contest as just one piece of a much larger project.

Nice try.

One group MYOPICALLY clings to the Republican Party...which is inarguably one-half of the two-party stranglehold that stewarded our country into EXACTLY the clusterfuck in which we "find ourselves". Another group of FREER Thinkers has ZERO cause, post Ron Paul, to keep tolerating the SOCIAL ENGINEERING embraced by "Liberty Republicans" of the Hardright and Holy Roller persuasions.

 

[tbone717]

One group MYOPICALLY clings to the Republican Party...one-half of the two-party stranglehold that stewarded the country to EXACTLY where it is...and Independents with less of a SOCIAL ENGINEERING streak.

Well that group includes Ron Paul, Rand, Amash, Massie and others - I'll stick with them.

 

[BattleFlag1776]

Tell me Barrex why is Germany the strongest economy in the world?

Why is Germany again on top of Europe's direction?

What's different there?

For starters, this:
http://www.eur.army.mil/organization/garrisons.htm

 

[Barrex]

Tell me Barrex why is Germany the strongest economy in the world?

Why is Germany again on top of Europe's direction?

What's different there?

Where are you going with this?

It is not stupid to discuss a new party Barrex. Were the founders stupid to want to break away from King George?
Some here seem incapable of seeing beyond the left/right paradigm. Discussing something shouldn't be a threat to a plan unless the plan is unstable to begin with and my aren't some getting their noses out of joint because they can't force people to acquiesce without question.

It is ok to discuss it but to move it as viable alternative to Ron Paul plan is weakening and damaging (it is not going to happen and will only weaken movement). History of political parties in entire world tells us that that "way" doesnt work. I am from Croatia/BiH. I witnessed a birth of democracy and political parties; I traveled entire Europe and know how political parties work and how they die...everything I know about political parties tells me it is not going to work. Only thing it will do is weaken entire movement as people split and try "their own way"(popular front). Line undre botom line: Ron Pauls plan is working and I honestly dont see and advantage or benefit from abandoning it and trying something that failed again and again und immer wieder und immer wieder et encore i prdež.

I apologize if I insulted anyone. It was not my intention to do so.(but it is like farting....comes natural with/to (???) me. Sorry...look at him he tells fart jokes he is not serious; we cant take him seriously ipso facto he is wrong)

For starters, this:
http://www.eur.army.mil/organization/garrisons.htm

Lol....good one

 

[Carlybee]

Tbone...how has the GOP infrastructure contributed money or resources to the liberty movement? Other than the few SuperPacs we had this year, seems to me the movement has been funded by grassroots. The only thing the GOP has contributed has been a vehicle in which to travel and that vehicle is a lemon. As for how to go about starting a new party...it's premature...but worth thinking about. I have no doubt we have many visionaries and talented people among us.

 

[tbone717]

Tbone...how has the GOP infrastructure contributed money or resources to the liberty movement? Other than the few SuperPacs we had this year, seems to me the movement has been funded by grassroots. The only thing the GOP has contributed has been a vehicle in which to travel and that vehicle is a lemon. As for how to go about starting a new party...it's premature...but worth thinking about. I have no doubt we have many visionaries and talented people among us.

We are doing a fundraiser here in our county this month for our State Senator who is a libertarian-conservative. SuperPacs are external organizations and not affiliated with the local GOP.

The more folks that we have in committee seats the better. Are you aware of what a committeeman/committeewoman does? If so, I don't want to rehash all the info.

 

[Carlybee]

Where are you going with this?



It is ok to discuss it but to move it as viable alternative to Ron Paul plan is weakening and damaging (it is not going to happen and will only weaken movement). History of political parties in entire world tells us that that "way" doesnt work. I am from Croatia/BiH. I witnessed a birth of democracy and political parties; I traveled entire Europe and know how political parties work and how they die...everything I know about political parties tells me it is not going to work. Only thing it will do is weaken entire movement as people split and try "their own way"(popular front). Line undre botom line: Ron Pauls plan is working and I honestly dont see and advantage or benefit from abandoning it and trying something that failed again and again und immer wieder und immer wieder et encore i prdež.

I apologize if I insulted anyone. It was not my intention to do so.(but it is like farting....comes natural with/to (???) me. Sorry...look at him he tells fart jokes he is not serious; we cant take him seriously ipso facto he is wrong)



Lol....good one

With all due respect Barrex, this is not Europe nor do we wish to be. Unfortunately from an economic standpoint it may not be long before we experience the same type of debt crisis, but I don't buy the rest of it. My mom used to say "Can't never could do anything.". The liberty movement was born from true patriotism and that is a powerful thing.

 

[romancito]

I'll bite.

So to start a new party you need a lot of people and a ton of money. You need marketing people to be able to promote this new party to the masses so that you have more people willing to donate money and time. You need people willing to put their lives & careers on hold to run for office. You need ballot access - so you need people that are willing to volunteer their time knocking on doors and doing whatever it takes to accomplish that. You need an organizational structure, otherwise you have a bunch of people going off in a thousand different directions. You need places to meet, so you either have to buy or rent space for that. You need websites, phones, employees, television ads, radio ads, paper, buttons, bumper stickers, yard signs, etc.

I am sure that you are aware that there a dozens and dozens of political parties out there. None of them have been able to elect a candidate to a state office (with the exception of the LP & CP who last did it about 10 years ago)

So how do you propose you get all that you need to get started, and to be able to be successful at what so many others have failed at?

I think Ron Paul has everything you require in paragraph one.

Please, the country is in dear straights precisely because there is a lack of democratic process.

No one has failed at anything. Parties don't fail when they loose their election. Is a democracy stupid (not directed at you personally)(not trying to be disrespectful).

 

[Carlybee]

We are doing a fundraiser here in our county this month for our State Senator who is a libertarian-conservative. SuperPacs are external organizations and not affiliated with the local GOP.

The more folks that we have in committee seats the better. Are you aware of what a committeeman/committeewoman does? If so, I don't want to rehash all the info.

I know SuperPacs by way of SEC rules can't be affilated but are valuable assets for ad buys. And i do know that committe people's main function..or one of them is recruitment.

 

[tbone717]

I think Ron Paul has everything you require in paragraph one.

Please, the country is in dear straights precisely because there is a lack of democratic process.

No one has failed at anything. Parties don't fail when they loose their election. Is a democracy stupid (not directed at you personally)(not trying to be disrespectful).

But Ron Paul is not starting a new party. Did you see his most recent email? In it he stated "the liberty movement is the future of the GOP".

 

[FSP-Rebel]

Tbone...how has the GOP infrastructure contributed money or resources to the liberty movement? Other than the few SuperPacs we had this year, seems to me the movement has been funded by grassroots. The only thing the GOP has contributed has been a vehicle in which to travel and that vehicle is a lemon. As for how to go about starting a new party...it's premature...but worth thinking about. I have no doubt we have many visionaries and talented people among us.

I'm not totally against discussing a new party down the line if our efforts in the GOP aren't continually achieving success. And I'm basing that on what happened in '08, the addition of Rand and Lee + a few more in '10, mass delegate victories in certain states/reclaiming certain states' party leadership/potential Senate and Congressman additions here in 2012 and perhaps even the Presidency, then more achievements going into '14 etc. That said, the major way to justify the new party route is to hope against or continually question the concept of restoring the GOP to minimize active participation in doing so. Since this is an RP board, the GOP restoration project is the main objective.

 

[romancito]

Where are you going with this?

It is ok to discuss it but to move it as viable alternative to Ron Paul plan is weakening and damaging (it is not going to happen and will only weaken movement). History of political parties in entire world tells us that that "way" doesnt work. I am from Croatia/BiH. I witnessed a birth of democracy and political parties; I traveled entire Europe and know how political parties work and how they die...everything I know about political parties tells me it is not going to work. Only thing it will do is weaken entire movement as people

So all that European experience freezes you like a rock and you can't even understand where a question can take you. Okay.

 

[tbone717]

I know SuperPacs by way of SEC rules can't be affilated but are valuable assets for ad buys. And i do know that committe people's main function..or one of them is recruitment.

Ok well basically here is how it goes. A committeeman's (woman too, I am tired of typing that each time) is responsible for his ward, primarily for GOTV. He sits on the county committee who (in the primary season) will endorse candidates. For example this year in the US Senate primary there were 6 candidates. The state GOP committee, endorsed Steve Welch who was a typical establishment type. But county GOP's made their own endorsements, based on the make up of their committee. For example, Berks County endorsed Sam Rohrer. The committeemen then go to their wards, recruit volunteers and canvass asking people to support Rohrer in the primary. They have the lists, the donor info, etc. So in a county like Berks Rohrer won the county by a pretty good clip. Now he lost statewide to Tom Smith (sort of a fiscal conservative Pat Toomey type), but you can see when you look across the state that the counties generally go for the candidate whom the county GOP was behind.

So that is how the infrastructure is beneficial. When you are a committeeman you have the list for your ward. When you have a bunch of committeemen on the county GOP, you can strongly influence the endorsements. When you have a lot of counties, you can have influence over the state GOP, etc.

So the key to all this is getting people involved at the local level. If someone has the time and ability to run for committeeman that is great. If not, then simply being involved in the local GOP can garner some influence. Committeemen are representatives of the voters, so they should listen to the concerns of the people they represent - otherwise you vote them out. The more people that are involved in their county GOP, the more committee seats we can hold, the more committee seats we hold the more likely liberty candidates will get the endorsement. County GOP's (in most states) also effect the make up of the state GOP committee, as they elect committeemen to the state GOP. So it is a building process. It takes time, but we are seeing a huge amount of progress from where we were 4 years ago. Folks just need to have patience and perseverance to see it through.

 

[FSP-Rebel]

So that is how the infrastructure is beneficial. When you are a committeeman you have the list for your ward. When you have a bunch of committeemen on the county GOP, you can strongly influence the endorsements. When you have a lot of counties, you can have influence over the state GOP, etc.

+ rep

 

[Barrex]

With all due respect Barrex, this is not Europe nor do we wish to be. Unfortunately from an economic standpoint it may not be long before we experience the same type of debt crisis, but I don't buy the rest of it. My mom used to say "Can't never could do anything.". The liberty movement was born from true patriotism and that is a powerful thing.

You face same obstacles like people in Europe and the rest of the world.... You should learn from their failures.

So all that European experience freezes you like a rock and you can't even understand where a question can take you. Okay.

Not sure but I think that you are being a dick. Just my impression. You ask question so broad and so "related" to this topic and I didnt understand where were you going with it, what is your point......but hey if it makes you happy spit.

 

[romancito]

Since this is an RP board, the GOP restoration project is the main objective.

Okay then tell or have Ron Paul stop the silent treatment, the hiding, the going back to Congress to work to avoid the press. Tell Ron Paul to get going with campaign appearances for the candidates tbone717 lists. If I see Ron Paul going at it without every insecurity he shows, if I see Ron Paul trying to gain acceptance and track with Sarah Palin, Jeb Bush, and others, even including Jindal. If I see Ron Paul confronting the RNC and Romney wrestling with them on a one to one basis. If I see Ron Paul certifying that the states that he is supposed to have won the plurality of delegates are going to nominate him, then restoring the GOP project may have traction. No?

 

[Carlybee]

I'm not totally against discussing a new party down the line if our efforts in the GOP aren't continually achieving success. And I'm basing that on what happened in '08, the addition of Rand and Lee + a few more in '10, mass delegate victories in certain states/reclaiming certain states' party leadership/potential Senate and Congressman additions here in 2012 and perhaps even the Presidency, then more achievements going into '14 etc. That said, the major way to justify the new party route is to hope against or continually question the concept of restoring the GOP to minimize active participation in doing so. Since this is an RP board, the GOP restoration project is the main objective.

Then a moderator can tell me that. RP has been a bit quixotic lately and the campaign has done nothing but send mixed messages and in some cases has tried to sabotage the delegate process. So please don't give us a mandate.

 

[cajuncocoa]

I don't think it's fair to say that those who want to break away from the GOP (a party that never wanted us in the first place and will do everything to sabotage any success we make) are being "myopic and focused solely on the race for the White House." Speaking for myself, just the opposite is true. I would love nothing more than to have this movement grow, but I'm not convinced that the GOP is the way.


Ron Paul says it is, but did anyone consider that he may be thinking more about Rand's future than the future of the Liberty movement? (No, they're not one and the same....not after Rand's endorsement of Romney).


As for the GOP fundraising for Liberty candidates...don't make me laugh. Even if they do, they will want something in return (see above reference to endorsement of Romney).


That cheapens our movement IMO. I would rather lose every election than win that way...because winning by compromising with the devil isn't winning at all.