Discussion of Working inside the GOP

[gte811i]

And that is why I feel as I do...too many years of party over principle.

Have you watched the Maddow segment on the 18 year-old that beat out the former Governor. That is political activism, and it only happened because enough people decided to get involved.

I really don't understand why individuals do not understand the simple concept that a Party or any organization is just made up of individuals. It isn't organic, it doesn't breath . . . the individuals that make up the group live, breath, make decisions.

 

[Carlybee]

Have you watched the Maddow segment on the 18 year-old that beat out the former Governor. That is political activism, and it only happened because enough people decided to get involved.

I really don't understand why individuals do not understand the simple concept that a Party or any organization is just made up of individuals. It isn't organic, it doesn't breath . . . the individuals that make up the group live, breath, make decisions.

Yes it is also collectivist and central planning if you want to get technical. No one is saying people shouldn't do it. I just prefer not to be associated with the brand. I also find the meme of "taking over" to be hostile and anti liberty. If the meme had stayed true to RP's idea of taking the party back to it's roots that would have been one thing. We saw how well taking over was received in Nevada, Oklahoma and Louisiana. Yes it worked well in a few states and good for them. I don't get why some are trying to shove belng a member of the GOP down our throats. I won't repeat myself as to what I think about the concessions that will be made to work within that party.

 

[tbone717]

"Just by seeing a flood of my delegates in Tampa, you and I can respectfully send a loud and clear message that we are the future of the Republican Party. Seeing so many new and young faces at the RNC will show that despite their best efforts to maintain their iron grip over the Republican Party, our liberty movement is the future of the GOP" - Ron Paul (Email to supporters and delegates 07/13/12, emphasis added)

 

[mstrmac1]

So for those who think working inside the GOP is the way to go.... How's that speaking slot for Dr Paul going? How's our voice being heard so far? What have we changed on the books? Were doing so well we can't even get a speaking slot at the convention! Taking back the GOP is a dream wrapped in a fallacy.. But I'll continue with the plan...who are we voting for in 2016 if Romney is elected?

I so hope your all right and this works!

 

[LibertyEagle]

So for those who think working inside the GOP is the way to go.... How's that speaking slot for Dr Paul going? How's our voice being heard so far? What have we changed on the books? Were doing so well we can't even get a speaking slot at the convention! Taking back the GOP is a dream wrapped in a fallacy.. But I'll continue with the plan...who are we voting for in 2016 if Romney is elected?

I so hope your all right and this works!

Perhaps you missed it.

We have Kurt Bills winning the Republican nomination and he needs our help to win the general. We have Thomas Massie winning his Republican nomination. Chris Hightower won his Republican nomination too. And those are just for starters. We have liberty folks in leadership positions in the GOP in more than a few states and that will make it much easier in those states to get liberty people elected. It looks like the Audit the Fed legislation might just pass this time. And Ron Paul has brought in a whole ton of more people to this movement.

There was never a magic bullet to turnaround in one swell swoop what has taken decades to destroy. It's going to take a lot of more hard work and strategy. But, we are making progress. Not as fast as we wanted, but we are making progress. What's the alternative? Just gripe and give up?

 

[mstrmac1]

Perhaps I didn't. Perhaps, because you have 30 billion posts that makes you all high and mighty! Or perhaps you missed the fact that we have made such inroads that our guy cant get a lousy 15 min speaking slot in your beloved party.. Or perhaps maybe you still have not answered the question... Who do we vote for in 2016 if Rand doesn't run or Romney wins!? Will you vote Romney? Perhaps you will...or Perhaps you will just always think that the discussion of third party is just for the stupid.

 

[idiom]

Perhaps I didn't. Perhaps, because you have 30 billion posts that makes you all high and mighty! Or perhaps you missed the fact that we have made such inroads that our guy cant get a lousy 15 min speaking slot in your beloved party.. Or perhaps maybe you still have not answered the question... Who do we vote for in 2016 if Rand doesn't run or Romney wins!? Will you vote Romney? Perhaps you will...or Perhaps you will just always think that the discussion of third party is just for the stupid.

That 15 minutes represents a huge amount of power gained. If RP had another 4 years we would win it all. We would go from having no speaking time to having four days and the neo-cons getting nothing. Control of the Convention is pretty binary.

 

[Natural Citizen]

After reading through this thread, I'm a bit more comfortable in the notion that folks aren't so quick to suck down the instant tea like they used to be. Gives me some hope in that regard at least.

 

[tbone717]

Who do we vote for in 2016 if Rand doesn't run or Romney wins!? Will you vote Romney? Perhaps you will...or Perhaps you will just always think that the discussion of third party is just for the stupid.

There are 535 Congressional seats, over 7000 state legislatures seats, 50 Governors, numerous other state offices (Lt Gov, State Treasurer, etc), and tens of thousands of local government offices. While POTUS is the big one, it is not the only office that the Liberty Movement needs to be concerned about. So if Rand doesn't run in 2016? So what - there will be plenty of people at the congressional, state and local level that will need support.

One cannot control what goes on around them, we can only control what we ourselves do with our time and money. Those who are committed to full time grassroots activism can do what we know works. Show up at meetings, run for committee offices, support liberty minded candidates as they run for office, and work as hard as humanly possible in our own backyards.

While I can appreciate your concerns for the "what ifs" of the future, many of us are focused on what we can do right now. We have a lot of great candidates running for office this year (Cruz, Bills, Kerry B, Amash, Massie, etc, etc, etc) - these folks need money and volunteers.

 

[romancito]

After reading through this thread, I'm a bit more comfortable in the notion that folks aren't so quick to suck down the instant tea like they used to be. Gives me some hope in that regard at least.

What a difference a day makes. Yesterday night here you said exactly the opposite ...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?383429-Is-this-another-GOP-stunt-...MASS-Delegates...

This whole forum tread gets cancelled by what appears to be the result of working inside the GOP, death to Liberty and healthy government.

For those who are always looking for data, the data on that video clip should be sufficient, no?

 

[Natural Citizen]

What a difference a day makes. Yesterday night here you said exactly the opposite ...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?383429-Is-this-another-GOP-stunt-...MASS-Delegates...

This whole forum tread gets cancelled by what appears to be the result of working inside the GOP, death to Liberty and healthy government.

For those who are always looking for data, the data on that video clip should be sufficient, no?

No, I didn't. In the thread you redirected to I was merely pointing out the obvious in the fact that the spew in the video was classic infiltration and hijacking technique. There are many different flavors of TEA these days. None seem to reflect the flavor of the original Ron Paul home made stuff. But they try to pretend as if they do with the added benefit of reframing the terms of controversy...like the folks in the video tried to do.

I saw reflections of that same shenanigan in this thread and was glad to see that it was noticed. So I said so.

I don't see where I contradicted anything at all. I'm rather careful about that when posting with many people accross a given platform. Especially since I tend to carry the same notion(s) accross several threads where relevance exists...in my opinion. Obviously relevance is dependant upon ones own perspective

 

[romancito]

No, I didn't. In the thread you redirected to I was merely pointing out the obvious in the fact that the spew in the video was classic infiltration and hijacking technique. There are many different flavors of TEA these days. None seem to reflect the flavor of the original Ron Paul home made stuff. But they try to pretend as if they do with the added benefit of reframing the terms of controversy...like the folks in the video tried to do.

I saw reflections of that same shenanigan in this thread and was glad to see that it was noticed. So I said so.

I don't see where I contradicted anything at all. I'm rather careful about that when posting with many people accross a given platform. Especially since I tend to carry the same notion(s) accross several threads where relevance exists...in my opinion. Obviously relevance is dependant upon ones own perspective

Okay, so you see them as pretenders. Then I read you wrong. Sorry.

I don't see them as pretenders but as typical for those Ron Paul supporters that get confident working inside the GOP. Then they want to integrate seamlessly. But that's what I think.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Okay, so you see them as pretenders. Then I read you wrong. Sorry.

I don't see them as pretenders but as typical for those Ron Paul supporters that get confident working inside the GOP. Then they want to integrate seamlessly. But that's what I think.

I think they are reframing the terms of controversy rather blatantly and scripted while reserving the idea that their vision is in the best interests of the practical cause that used to be. They're not really pretending anything at all as far as the platform they support. If they want to support Mitt Romney then fine. But don't tell me how to act at a rally or a convention by hijacking the theoretical issue that Ron Paul supporters are problematic and then play Liberty lover in front of a youtube bound camera and then turn it around to offer up your own means of order as the example to be followed is all I'm saying. And there was more to the shenanigan than just that but it is what it is. Transparent at the very least, it is. Reminds me of Frank Luntz type tactics. Problem, reaction, solution 101.

 

[Natural Citizen]

While I can appreciate your concerns for the "what ifs" of the future, many of us are focused on what we can do right now.

You mean like those wonderful bailouts that wrecked us...that had to be done right then...or else? QE3...could go on and on. I think we need to stop trying to speed up and get in a big hurry to go nowhere. I was telling eleganz the story of the two bulls a ways back. This one seems to be right up that same alley.

How many tyrannical bills have passed because folks promoted the idea of hurrying up and getting it done...without knowing the aftermath of the damage they were doing? How many lives have been destroyed and homes lost because folks promoted the idea to hurry up and appease the money changers? How many students will fall prey to predatory lending for educations for jobs that do not exist in an infrastructure blocked from change by old men in power?

Change takes time if it's to be had at all. Can't just hurry up and say here, do this sign the dotted line....now.

 

[Peace Piper]

What a difference a day makes. Yesterday night here you said exactly the opposite ...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?383429-Is-this-another-GOP-stunt-...MASS-Delegates...

This whole forum tread gets cancelled by what appears to be the result of working inside the GOP, death to Liberty and healthy government.

For those who are always looking for data, the data on that video clip should be sufficient, no?

That video is very creepy

"follow the rules"

If everyone always did that there wouldn't even be a US

there are evil winds blowing and many innocents will be sucked into the updraft

 

[romancito]

There are 535 Congressional seats, over 7000 state legislatures seats, 50 Governors, numerous other state offices (Lt Gov, State Treasurer, etc), and tens of thousands of local government offices. While POTUS is the big one, it is not the only office that the Liberty Movement needs to be concerned about. So if Rand doesn't run in 2016? So what - there will be plenty of people at the congressional, state and local level that will need support.

One cannot control what goes on around them, we can only control what we ourselves do with our time and money. Those who are committed to full time grassroots activism can do what we know works. Show up at meetings, run for committee offices, support liberty minded candidates as they run for office, and work as hard as humanly possible in our own backyards.

While I can appreciate your concerns for the "what ifs" of the future, many of us are focused on what we can do right now. We have a lot of great candidates running for office this year (Cruz, Bills, Kerry B, Amash, Massie, etc, etc, etc) - these folks need money and volunteers.

I see you used the word 'control' twice in the middle of your statements.

I think you fear democracy. Plain and simple and you seek control, power, manipulation.

I think Republicans fear democracy and self-determination and change.

I personally like Egyptian democracy where the list of candidates and parties was 20 pages long.

The practicality of the two party system had its time under the sun. Right now I think it seem obnoxious and nauseating.

 

[Barrex]

I had hopes for this movement but every time I read this thread and other similar to this I see that this movement is dying.

I understand fatigue and that some people want to quit but I dont understand why those people yell at others to quit too. If there is a plan in place. Plan to take over GOP. Plan made by Ron Paul. Ron Paul who is most experienced and knowledgeable among us.... Why the fuck people keep persuading people to give up, to stop working on that plan when the plan is working (Iowa, Alaska are won and some others, there are libertarian candidates being elected and so on and so on....)???
What is your alternative?
Create new party? Not realistic (stupid even to discuss it)
Give up? Ok you can give up your life your body your future but you dont have to pull the rest down with you.
Join libertarian party? and then what? 0 influence

Bottom line: ENTROPY....dispersal of energy. If everyone just goes their own separate ways then this movement is dead. If everyone works alone and doesnt cooperate with anyone then this is over.

Make a plan, stick to it, work together. (I personally think Ron Pauls plan is working)

 

[cheapseats]

You mean like those wonderful bailouts that wrecked us...that had to be done right then...or else? QE3...could go on and on. I think we need to stop trying to speed up and get in a big hurry to go nowhere.

WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!! WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!!

How many tyrannical bills have passed because folks promoted the idea of hurrying up and getting it done...without knowing the aftermath of the damage they were doing? How many lives have been destroyed and homes lost because folks promoted the idea to hurry up and appease the money changers? How many students will fall prey to predatory lending for educations for jobs that do not exist in an infrastructure blocked from change by old men in power?

YES, to "haste makes waste".

YES, to "he who hesitates is lost".

YES, to "patience is a virtue".

Yes, to "NO GUTS, NO GLORY".

Confuse not CRAZY-FAST with CRAZY LIKE A FOX.

Change takes time if it's to be had at all.

With respect, that is an OVERGENERALIZED SOUND BYTE. And like so many, it has some truth without being True on a TRUE/FALSE test.

Obama's "brilliance" in running on a platform of Change is that CHANGE HAPPENS, WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT.

Other than Death, CHANGE is practically the only certainty in Life. Change is continuous. Occurrence is one thing. Repetition is another, different thing. Sustainability is another, different thing. CONTINUOUS is another, different thing.

LOSING WEIGHT is not done overnight. Shaving your head? Not INSTANT-instant, but pretty damn quick. Getting hit by a bus? Even quicker.

Can't just hurry up and say here, do this sign the dotted line....now.

Depends what they hope to gain by signing &/or what they fear about NOT signing.

At least not amongst thinking folks who have seen the meme in all it's wonder already.

Do you believe that millions and millions and millions and millions of Adjustable Rate Mortgage loan signatories have learned their lesson?

That's the kind of stuff you would expect from a used car salesman.

One of America's surpluses is DEFINITELY Unscrupulous Salespeople.

 

[tbone717]

I had hopes for this movement but every time I read this thread and other similar to this I see that this movement is dying.

I understand fatigue and that some people want to quit but I dont understand why those people yell at others to quit too. If there is a plan in place. Plan to take over GOP. Plan made by Ron Paul. Ron Paul who is most experienced and knowledgeable among us.... Why the fuck people keep persuading people to give up, to stop working on that plan when the plan is working (Iowa, Alaska are won and some others, there are libertarian candidates being elected and so on and so on....)???
What is your alternative?
Create new party? Not realistic (stupid even to discuss it)
Give up? Ok you can give up your life your body your future but you dont have to pull the rest down with you.
Join libertarian party? and then what? 0 influence

Bottom line: ENTROPY....dispersal of energy. If everyone just goes their own separate ways then this movement is dead. If everyone works alone and doesnt cooperate with anyone then this is over.

Make a plan, stick to it, work together. (I personally think Ron Pauls plan is working)

Excellent observation. In all honesty, I think it comes down to two sets of people that were part of the Ron Paul movement: one group was myopic and focused solely on the race for the White House; the other had a broader view and saw the nomination contest as just one piece of a much larger project.

 

[romancito]

I had hopes for this movement....

Tell me Barrex why is Germany the strongest economy in the world?

Why is Germany again on top of Europe's direction?

What's different there?