Did God make Atheists?

[Kraig]

So according to Theo I don't exist.

 

[Objectivist]

The *point* of the op was to talk about the idea that the church of today is discouraging Christians from becoming scientists and the effects that would have on the scientific population demographics.

But, go on, entertain yourselves.

It's better that non-christians do not become scientists as christians don't base their thinking on reason and facts, they operate under faith and faith doesn't make it in the realm of science. You have to prove your work before your peers as a scientist and all christians ever do is "Because I said so." or "The bible says." no proof in either statement.

 

[LibertyEagle]

It's better that non-christians do not become scientists as christians don't base their thinking on reason and facts, they operate under faith and faith doesn't make it in the realm of science. You have to prove your work before your peers as a scientist and all christians ever do is "Because I said so." or "The bible says." no proof in either statement.

A bit collectivist, don't you think?

 

[Objectivist]

A bit collectivist, don't you think?

Prove god exists.... I can wait.

 

[idiom]

Prove god exists.... I can wait.

So... what you are saying is, no Christian has ever written a scientific paper of any merit whatsoever?

 

[Objectivist]

So... what you are saying is, no Christian has ever written a scientific paper of any merit whatsoever?

To many assumptions to give you an answer. Then I didn't say that, I stated what I prefer and my personal experiences with christians to date.

Then I'd trust the thinking of people who deal with reality and not base their ideas on faith alone. Any rube can get lucky on faith, it's a 50/50 proposition.

 

[Objectivist]

I'm still waiting for the proof of god.......

 

[idiom]

I am still waiting for you to explain away the existence of Christian scientists.

 

[Objectivist]

I am still waiting for you to explain away the existence of Christian scientists.

I did.
"Then I'd trust the thinking of people who deal with reality and not base their ideas on faith alone. Any rube can get lucky on faith, it's a 50/50 proposition."

 

[idiom]

Do you really think I would ever put

"Because I said so." or "The bible says."

In any peer reviewed paper I intended to publish?

 

[PatriotLegion]

New topic: Who the fuck cares?

I'm for that!!! LOL

But on a side note (pour more gas on the fire)

Would a god or any god create a f**ked up world we live in today? If its that bad then where is he/her to help this fading society we call the human race??? You think god would allow us to slain each other in his name, for natural resources, or power?

If there is a "god" then he created us for his amusement, in my guess we are all like the little plastic army men that we had as children that we melted down with matches!

 

[sevin]

So... what you are saying is, no Christian has ever written a scientific paper of any merit whatsoever?

I didn't say that, I stated what I prefer and my personal experiences with christians to date.

Then I'd trust the thinking of people who deal with reality and not base their ideas on faith alone. Any rube can get lucky on faith, it's a 50/50 proposition.

I'm still waiting for the proof of god.......

I am still waiting for you to explain away the existence of Christian scientists.

Christian scientists apply science to their work, but not to their daily lives. This is common among the majority of people. They use logic and reasoning in their day-to-day activities, but when it comes to personal issues, they abandon all reason and get their advice from their preacher or the bible. I think it's a kind of mental laziness, or maybe fear that they'll make the wrong decision, so they turn it over to religion.

 

[PaulaGem]

It's better that non-christians do not become scientists as christians don't base their thinking on reason and facts, they operate under faith and faith doesn't make it in the realm of science. You have to prove your work before your peers as a scientist and all christians ever do is "Because I said so." or "The bible says." no proof in either statement.

My Niece is a "Christian" and her father is an engineer that worked on the first laser barcode reader & grocery checkout. She is a cancer researcher for a local biotech.

There are a lot of thinking Christians. I believe I am one.

My main problem with the Church is that it trains the flock to be sheep.

If you follow the teachings of Yeshua you have only one Lord, the infinite all knowing God. Why wouldn't such a Christian be challenged to grow closer to the One by learning about His/Her creation and the rhythm and mechanics behind it? You could also call that "science".

 

[PaulaGem]

Wait no more... I have it...

I'm still waiting for the proof of god.......

God is a proven reality in my life because I have a personal relationship with Spirit. Unfortunately that is a personal, metaphyisical proof. It's impossible to give a physical proof for something that is by definition metaphysical.

Why would you even bother to ask?

 

[PaulaGem]

Christian scientists apply science to their work, but not to their daily lives. This is common among the majority of people. They use logic and reasoning in their day-to-day activities, but when it comes to personal issues, they abandon all reason and get their advice from their preacher or the bible. I think it's a kind of mental laziness, or maybe fear that they'll make the wrong decision, so they turn it over to religion.

Why would someone pretending to be smart make such a stupid generalization?

Someone who truly experiences a "personal relationship with God" knows that that is the ultimate test and religion is nothing.

Have you heard the term "Word of Knowledge"? It is a fundamentalist term for a real metaphysical experience. When you look to God for answers you frequently get them, direct from the source, not through a church or a book.

 

[Andrew-Austin]

Why would someone pretending to be smart make such a stupid generalization?

Someone who truly experiences a "personal relationship with God" knows that that is the ultimate test and religion is nothing.

Have you heard the term "Word of Knowledge"? It is a fundamentalist term for a real metaphysical experience. When you look to God for answers you frequently get them, direct from the source, not through a church or a book.

Do you want to describe what you mean by "personal relationship with God".

Your obviously not hanging out with the G-Man, like you would hang out with a human being you have a personal relationship with.
And I'd like to assume that you don't think God speaks to you.

Is this "relationship" just a mixture of feelings you have regarding life?

 

[PaulaGem]

Do you want to describe what you mean by "personal relationship with God".

Your obviously not hanging out with the G-Man, like you would hang out with a human being you have a personal relationship with.
And I'd like to assume that you don't think God speaks to you.

Is this "relationship" just a mixture of feelings you have regarding life?

On rare occasions God does speak very clearly and specifically. I call this the "voice without a voice". Again, because it is metaphysical I can only describe my personal experience, I can not prove this in the physical sense.

The "realationship" is primarily one of mutual love and trust, and since Spirit has a more complete and realistic perception of both the physical and the Spriritual world, I pray for instructions and understanding a lot.

Usually the information comes in the just waking-up stage in the morning in the form of exceptionally creative thoughts and ideas, but it has also come in the form of specific factual information that I was unaware of and was later verified through other sources.

 

[Theocrat]

Your Actions Betray Your Worldview

So according to Theo I don't exist.

No, you exist as a person created by God. However, you are not a true atheist. There are no atheists, for no one can prove the nonexistence of God (impossible to prove a universal negative). Even if you attempt to disprove God's existence, you have to steal Christian conceptions of such things as logic, morality, and science to do so.

At best, all you can say is that you don't believe God exists, but you really don't know because you have not seen all of the evidences which may prove His existence. But then, that makes your belief a matter of faith, and you're right on the same level with Christians to justify that faith.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

No, you exist as a person created by God. However, you are not a true atheist. There are no atheists, for no one can prove the nonexistence of God (impossible to prove a universal negative). Even if you attempt to disprove God's existence, you have to steal Christian conceptions of such things as logic, morality, and science to do so. At best, all you can say is that you don't believe God exists, but you have not seen all of the evidences which may prove His existence. But then, that makes your belief a matter of faith, and you're right on the same level with Christians to justify that faith.

False. A negative cannot be proven empirically. You yourself are atheist in regards to a number of gods and deities. Try the truth sometime, Theo. It will do you good. What makes you think Christians have a monopoly on logic?

"As a discipline, logic dates back to Aristotle, who established its fundamental place in philosophy." (note that Aristotle predates Christianity)

Your Roman-like bias shows very clearly, sir.

 

[Theocrat]

On the Contrary

False. A negative cannot be proven empirically. You yourself are atheist in regards to a number of gods and deities. Try the truth sometime, Theo. It will do you good. What makes you think Christians have a monopoly on logic?

"As a discipline, logic dates back to Aristotle, who established its fundamental place in philosophy." (note that Aristotle predates Christianity)

Your Roman-like bias shows very clearly, sir.

You're absolutely right. A negative cannot be proven empirically, and that has been one of my points all along. Those who reject God on the basis that He cannot be empirically proven fall into the trap of not being able to prove there is no God empirically, themselves. So, my question to the empiricists is on what basis can they prove the truth of their assertion that there is no God. I have not heard an answer to that yet.

Also, I am not an atheist with respect to other false gods. All it takes is the belief in one God to show that I am not truly an atheist. The belief in God makes me a theist, and a Christian, to be more specific. You're just playing with semantics there.

The basis for logic is grounded metaphysically with the Christian worldview, dating back to the Old Testament. In passing, I would say the false idea today is that Christianity began with Jesus's incarnation, but it goes all the way back to the Book of Genesis. Jesus was there as God Who created all things. However, logic as a system of thought may have been written extensively by Aristotle, but God's people were using logic way before Aristotle's writings were popularized. Also, Aristotle failed to adequately justify the use of logic, attributing it to the forms within material things. The Hebraic understanding of logic came from a transcendental law which presupposed special revelation by God to His creatures in how they thought, acted, and spoke to Him and to each other. That is where I find the basis for logic, and it has nothing to do with a "Roman-like bias."