Delaware becomes 1st state to officially outlaw spanking

Leaving spanking aside, would you agree that standard parenting would include daily violations of the NAP? I'm thinking of trivial things like forcing the small child to hold your hand while crossing the street.

I think you're completely ignoring the other side of NAP. We know what violates NAP. Standard parenting probably violates NAP all the time. Being conscious about NAP, knowing when you are violating it and willing to accept the consequences is all part of a NAP society. It's more about being aware, taking responsibility for your aggression/actions, and accepting the consequences. I think if society took a step in that direction we would be a lot better off. NAP just outlines the violations.
 
For those who advocate this NAP philosophy, try carrying this behavior into your local biker bar or inner-city barrio, see how well your philosophy flies in the face of reality...Kids are actually much meaner than bikers or gangsters when they're in groups.....

You're allowed to defend yourself. NAP followers usually love guns and are huge 2nd amendment supporters.
 
You're allowed to defend yourself. NAP followers usually love guns and are huge 2nd amendment supporters.

I wonder what ridiculous misconception about the NAP elicited this comment. I'm sure it's a hilarious one.

Just this mental picture of some college kid walking into my favorite bar and spouting off about how some prospect didn't deserve to get his ass kicked for fucking up.

Now I can further augment this mental picture with the college kid pulling a gun on these guys stating over and over "you can't do this it's against the NAP."

That'll end well...

Reality boys.
 
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Just this mental picture of some collage kid walking into my favorite bar and spouting off about how some prospect didn't deserve to get his ass kicked for fucking up.

Now I can further augment this mental picture with the collage kid pulling a gun on these guys stating over and over "you can't do this it's against the NAP."

That'll end well...

Reality boys.

Hypotheticals are fun. College is also fun!
 
Just this mental picture of some collage kid walking into my favorite bar and spouting off about how some prospect didn't deserve to get his ass kicked for fucking up.

Now I can further augment this mental picture with the collage kid pulling a gun on these guys stating over and over "you can't do this it's against the NAP."

That'll end well...

Reality boys.
What does the kid being a collage artist have to do with anything? D:
 
Hint: "collage" is an actual word, but it's not a place people go to learn stuff after high school.
Tip: Dictionaries give you the definitions of words.
 
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The "you don't have any kids" argument has been used by both sides ad nauseum. It's stupid.

People who don't have any full-time children of their own...

...can be educators who actually deal with children for more of the day than their parents do.
...can have to deal with children in their work in other scenarios (retail, etc., get to know a LOT about kids).
...often have relatives whose children they have to deal with a lot.
...were always, unfailingly, children themselves and had to deal with other children growing up.
...might be better able to distance themselves from the situation and see it through clear eyes, rather than the "my little angel would never do that" attitude a lot of parents seem to adopt.

So, yeah, cut the stereotype.

I will concede that high exposure to many different children will give someone a perspective that parents without the same experience wouldn't necessarily have. But none of those people you mention have an eighteen year obligation to rear the child. With a short term situation, it's easier to just quit and let someone else take care of any problems.

I bet combat veterans, cancer survivors, etc will say that "you won't understand until you've experienced it" too. I can't imagine any list of activities that would allow me to truly understand what it's like to be black in today's America. So yeah, to be under that eighteen year obligation for a real flesh and blood child -- the one you actually got, not the one you imagined you might get -- also gives unique perspectives.
 
I will concede that high exposure to many different children will give someone a perspective that parents without the same experience wouldn't necessarily have. But none of those people you mention have an eighteen year obligation to rear the child. With a short term situation, it's easier to just quit and let someone else take care of any problems.

I bet combat veterans, cancer survivors, etc will say that "you won't understand until you've experienced it" too. I can't imagine any list of activities that would allow me to truly understand what it's like to be black in today's America. So yeah, to be under that eighteen year obligation for a real flesh and blood child -- the one you actually got, not the one you imagined you might get -- also gives unique perspectives.

Sure it does. I'm sure that having to raise one's non-biological child (which would put you squarely in "you don't know what it's like because you didn't birth a child" territory) is also a bit of a struggle, no? It is, once again, a total cop-out to say someone can't discuss the subject because they are not included in the group most directly impacted by it. To use your analogy, yes, I've heard a lot of people say "you don't know what it's like to be black!" Of course I don't. Many of the things involved in those discussions, though, also applied to people who don't speak English well (go back to where you came from!), are brown-skinned-but-not-black, are female, have an obvious disability, etc.. There is common ground that allows people to talk about things. Likewise, no, someone might not know what it's like to have cancer... but they might have been there all through the last months, seen the effects, watched a loved one fade away... and that would certainly qualify them to join the discussion.

My mother likes to say she has helped raised a thousand kids, and she is right in a sense. She taught early childhood and was in charge of class after class of toddlers and 3-5 year olds for roughly 20 years. She saw kids all along the spectrum. She saw kids who were gender confused (already), and she dealt with having to "teach" children who did not speak five words of English... and parents who spoke less than that. She has heard "he started it" more than any one person should ever have to. She has seen kids playing doctor, boys offering to pee on a frog to comfort a screeching little girl, no shortage of impoverished children stealing lunches, and so on.

I'd like to think that, even if my sister and I did not exist, that sort of person would know quite a lot about the subject of spanking. :)

Also, to the point of your post, please remember that the people in question are not those who've raised a child to 18. A lot of the people offering opinions have children who seem to only just be reaching "that age," so other than the early period with the diapers and the saying cute things, it appears they are on even footing with not having experience with 6+ year olds ;)
 
Didn't read any of the replies....

but I am a single mother of a 4 1/2 year old boy and I think spanking is disgusting.

I don't know about enacting a ban against it, because I haven't thought about it enough.

But I do believe it is totally ineffective and bordering on barbaric.

So. Try talking to your kid instead?
 
Also, to the point of your post, please remember that the people in question are not those who've raised a child to 18.

It wasn't the experience that I was trying to emphasize, but the personal obligation of being responsible for someone's life, health, and happiness. New parents are arguably more sensitive to that since they are closer to that paradigm shift in their lives and have more years remaining on that obligation. Veteran parents have gotten past that initial life-changing shock and have fewer years remaining on the obligation.

School teachers deal with lots of different kids, but frequently send kids off to be disciplined by someone else. As a parent, you can't just send the child to the principal. The different obligation gives a different perspective. I'm just saying that the two experiences are not equivalent.
 
It wasn't the experience that I was trying to emphasize, but the personal obligation of being responsible for someone's life, health, and happiness. New parents are arguably more sensitive to that since they are closer to that paradigm shift in their lives and have more years remaining on that obligation. Veteran parents have gotten past that initial life-changing shock and have fewer years remaining on the obligation.

School teachers deal with lots of different kids, but frequently send kids off to be disciplined by someone else. As a parent, you can't just send the child to the principal. The different obligation gives a different perspective. I'm just saying that the two experiences are not equivalent.

Ahhh gotcha. I misunderstood a bit :)
 
Spelling police.

It was ironic. Plus my arguments are steeped in researching definitions, that's how we know what we're talking about on a philosophical and legal level. So to get some crazy hypothetical from someone who refuses to click a link on NAP makes me finally....
PicardDoubleFacepalm-1.jpg
 
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