Decline in circumcision rate could cost billions

[angelatc]

You're of course entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. The facts are that the foreskin is self-cleaning and smegma makes human life possible (as I pointed out earlier).

So you don't think uncirc'ed males get yeast infections?

 

[angelatc]

Rounding. And I don't subscribe to the original estimated projections anyways.

You can't, because that would mean you were mistaken in your beliefs. And we can't have that.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Did you read the original article? You just posted it. They mentioned Europe specifically.

Not following you. Did they say that Europe has higher rates (of infections) today? It was not in my quote, although it can be logically inferred.

 

[angelatc]

To answer your question, it does appear that Europe has a higher rate of STDs than North America.

The WHO estimates that 340 million new cases of syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia and trichomoniasis occurred throughout the world in 1999 in men and women aged 15-49 years. The largest number of new infections occurred in the region of South & Southeast Asia, followed by sub-Saharan Africa and Latin America & the Caribbean. The highest rate of new cases per 1,000 population occurred in sub-Saharan Africa.

Infection rates can vary enormously between countries in the same region and between urban and rural populations. In general, however, the prevalence of STDs tends to be higher in urban residents, in unmarried individuals, and in young adults.


http://www.avert.org/std-statistics.htm

(Table won't post right)

 

[Brian4Liberty]

To answer your question, it does appear that Europe has a higher rate of STDs than North America.

Dirty, diseased Europeans!

(edit: On a more serious note, if the higher rate is actually true, there is no way in the world to apply that to any one factor. Far too many variables and no controls to even make an educated guess.)

 

[heavenlyboy34]

To answer your question, it does appear that Europe has a higher rate of STDs than North America.

The WHO estimates that 340 million new cases of syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia and trichomoniasis occurred throughout the world in 1999 in men and women aged 15-49 years. The largest number of new infections occurred in the region of South & Southeast Asia, followed by sub-Saharan Africa and Latin America & the Caribbean. The highest rate of new cases per 1,000 population occurred in sub-Saharan Africa.

Infection rates can vary enormously between countries in the same region and between urban and rural populations. In general, however, the prevalence of STDs tends to be higher in urban residents, in unmarried individuals, and in young adults.


http://www.avert.org/std-statistics.htm

(Table won't post right)

19/1000 in N. America vs 20/1000 in Europe. Hmmm...not what I would call statistically significant. Your table also doesn't account for immigrants from the mideast (who tend to be circumcised) and I suspect would skew the statistics significantly.

http://www.un.org/esa/population/meetings/EGM_Ittmig_Arab/P11_Dumont(OECD).pdf
In total, 4.9 million person born in Arab countriesii were living in OECD countries in 2000 (see
Table 1). This represents 11.8% of all foreign-born originating from non-OECD countries, a share that is
more than double that of the Arab countries’ population in the non-OECD world population (4.9% in
2000). The emigration rate for the whole region is not large (2%), and important differences are recorded
between origin countries, with Lebanon and Maghreb countries (Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia) having
between 4.2% and 7.5% of their populations abroad. These figures should be compared to the percentages
calculated, for instance, for Sub-Saharan African countries (0.54% on average), or for Asian non-Arab
non-OECD countries (0.39% on average). Clearly, the Arab region remains an important source of
migrants for OECD countries.

 

[KingRobbStark]

I dont care if there is any health benefit to circumcision, or if it is only a useless practice of mutilation. My penis looks pretty fucking hansom with its haircut (or should I say skincut?).

 

[Anti Federalist]

When asked about it, I told our jewish baby catcher that I was too cheap to pay for a circumcision. He got a laugh out of that.

That made me laugh, loud, and hard, and probably much more than I should have.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Hey, why the fuck shouldn't we circumcise girls? Less pleasure would be experienced during sex, which would lead to less pre and extra-marital sex, which would lead to fewer unwed births, which would lead to less welfare and social services payments.

Female circumcision = less government!

 

[Restore America Now]

I propose we offer to parents of newborn girls the option cutting off the labia. After all, there is a ***chance*** of disease finding a place to hide in those folds of skin as well, right? Also, let's remove the fingernails as well, as who knows what can gather under there.

Female genitalia has infinitely more folds of skin than an intact male has. Yet no one is proposing that we do what I mentioned above, because of common sense. Learn how to wash properly.

I do not understand how libertarians who profess to believe in the idea that our bodies belong to ourselves can be okay with parents permanently altering the genitals of another, without their expressed consent. My genitals belong to me, and no one had a right to say what should have been done to them.

 

[amy31416]

Sure, but am I the only one here who was young and stupid? Imagine telling a horny 17 year old kid, ready to wet his wick, that it's not worth the risk since he accidentally tore the condom. Of course, perhaps there are some parents who think that kids deserve to get AIDs because they didn't use the best judgement, but I'm not one of them.

I can't look over their shoulders constantly (nor would I want to - ick!) so as a parent it's my opinion that I should do everything I can to minimize the long term risk.

Nope. But I just don't think that cutting off part of someone's penis is a good long-term solution. We can do better than that.

 

[amy31416]

At the request of another member, I'll lay down my 2 cents on the subject.

1 - I do not think circumcision should be illegal.

2 - I think there is a mega shit ton of hypocrisy involved in "society" getting livid over female genital mutilation but not male.

3 - I am very opposed to any medical decision being based on or mandated by what the "collective costs" of declining or accepting a medical procedure or treatment might be.

4 - Ultimately the parents must have the final say so.

I'm with ya on this for the most part. Regardless of my personal opinion, I am not an authority.

 

[Acala]

I decided that, regardless of what statistical health benefits might be had, it was a violation of my son's individual sovereignty for me to arrange to have him forcibly restrained and have his penis irreversibly modified with surgery. I figured he could make that decision for himself later, if he wished. By the way, I was circumcised and am fine with my own package but don't see the need to force that on anyone else.

Disapproving looks from parents were easily endured. I feel no obligation to perpetuate aspects of their culture that don't stand up to a principled analysis.

Fast forward eighteen years. I offered to pay for my son to be circumcised. The answer? "HELL NO!!!" Hehehe

 

[Acala]

Harkening back the original thread- I foresee a narrowly thwarted attack by a "foreskin bomber" leading to a requirement that all male airline, train, and bus passengers be circumcised so that TSA can protect the public. And I plan on getting out in front of this coming trend by inventing a circumcision machine. I will call it the "Machanical Mohel" and make it available in a fully automated booth in airports and train stations. I sense your doubts. But wait! I will make it fun! The mechanical mohel will have a witty repartee. "Oy vey! The race track is down the road Sea Biscuit!" or "A little off the top then?"

 

[brandon]

Might as well just completely neuter boys. Don't have to worry about STDs or reproduction. It also greatly reduces the risk of prostate cancer (well in dogs anyway).

 

[seeker4sho]

What a huge crock of shit. These idiots will do anything to keep the penis choppers in business (and funded by the government). And in the end, this is what government run healthcare will evolve into: forced circumcision.

Plus 1!!!!

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Please show me a study that disproves it. And one that's published in a peer reviewed journal.

LOL. Peer-reviewed journal is a bunch of peer-reviewed non-sense. "Peer-reviewed" essentially means "establishment approved". It has to be establishment-approved, or else it doesn't get published in a peer-reviewed journal.

 

[Boss]

12 pages later, still ignoring the premise of the debate. What good are your studies if you're using them to bolster a shaky stance?

 

[PaulConventionWV]

If parents want to cut Junior's little willy, they can cut it. If not, not. These are forums devoted to those of a Libertarian mindset, correct? Good Lord - an extra little flap of skin is not going to cause or prevent transmission of STDs. It isn't going to cause infections (if Junior is taught to clean it properly, like his armpits and bumhole). For the sake of all fucking fuck, us guys came pre-fabricated from the factory this way. There's certainly a tl;dr evolutionary explanation available somewhere out here on the interwebs if you're into that kind of thing, angelatc.

Good post anyway, AntiFed. I'm going to have some Cheerios now.

What does tl;dr mean?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Fast forward eighteen years. I offered to pay for my son to be circumcised. The answer? "HELL NO!!!" Hehehe

+1000!