DEBATE TOPIC: Why are non-oppressive, lawful-abiding, democratic societies rare?

[Unknown.User]

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[rp713]

because greed and wanting power usually takes over after some time. its a part of humanity.

 

[MsDoodahs]

because greed and wanting power usually takes over after some time. its a part of humanity.

and envy is the driver.

 

[FreeTraveler]

Part I:

Lord Acton summed it up long ago: "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Part II:

Political systems self-select for people who desire power over others. Artists, scientists and others who don't desire such power don't end up in control because they're not willing to abandon their own life goals to become "leaders." Therefore, the people who end up with power are those who desire power.

Part III:

It's easier to buy influence to eliminate your competition than it is to actually compete in the marketplace.

 

[Ronulus]

The change takes place over a period of time. The people don't notice it, as they become less and less a free society, little by little. Then when it's apparent to them they are so used to it that they don't mind. That or they are people that believe the only way to change is to 'vote' the right people in, yet those people turn out to be disingenuous or they never get elected. These people constantly feel defeated and eventually give up and accept their fate. They also do not believe in violence or they are afraid of the violence that would come back toward them or how that would be used to take away even more liberties.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Because it is the natural course of things for liberty to yield and government to gain ground. Men are evil and fallen from the womb. Oppression and tyranny are our nature.

 

[tremendoustie]

""Men ... should do their actual living and working in communities ... small enough to permit of genuine self-government and the assumption of personal responsibilities, federated into larger units in such a way that the temptation to abuse great power should not arise. The larger (structurally) a democracy grows, the less becomes the rule of the people and the smaller is the say of individuals and localised groups in dealing with their own destinies. Moreover, love and affection, are essentially personal relationships. Consequently, it is only in small groups that Charity, in the Pauline sense of the word, can manifest itself. Needless to say, the smallness of the group, in no way guarantees the emergence of Charity. In a large undifferentiated group, the possibility does not even exist, for the simple reason that most of its members cannot, in the nature of things, have personal relations with one another."

-Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi

 

[FreeTraveler]

Because it is the natural course of things for liberty to yield and government to gain ground. Men are evil and fallen from the womb. Oppression and tyranny are our nature.

Bull****. SOME men are evil. The political system empowers the few to gain power over the many. The political system self-selects for people willing to sacrifice everything else, career-wise, to their pursuit of power over others. Of the 545 currently "running" FedGov, only one says he DOESN'T want to run people's lives. The rest think that's the natural order of things, and they want those reins of power.

 

[Acton]

Because democracy is dependent upon what other people think, so people come down on others like wolves.

 

[Bergie Bergeron]

Why is this in Grassroots Central?

 

[Travlyr]

Honesty vs. Dishonesty

Why are non-oppressive, lawful-abiding, democratic societies rare?

Interpret that question however you choose, I am interested in hearing the views of others.

Exerting effort to acquire necessities and luxuries is more time consuming and less desirable than taking from others if it is justified in the minds of most people. In other words, stealing is easier than working as long as there is no penalty for stealing.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Bull****. SOME men are evil. The political system empowers the few to gain power over the many. The political system self-selects for people willing to sacrifice everything else, career-wise, to their pursuit of power over others. Of the 545 currently "running" FedGov, only one says he DOESN'T want to run people's lives. The rest think that's the natural order of things, and they want those reins of power.

Without Christianity, you don't even have the basis to say anything is evil, even some men.

How are you going justify evil? Both utilitarian and rationalistic arguments are invalid and have been refuted time and time again.

It is not simply "the political system" that causes men to be evil. That system certainly exacerbates our evil, but it is not the source of it. The idea that the political system is the source of evil is more of a Marxist view of the world than anything.

 

[febo]

Per Paul and Rockwell - Democracy is dictatorship - by the majority over the minorty. It's serial dictatorship. Dictators are all the same, they all wage war.

 

[Eleutheros]

Part I:

Lord Acton summed it up long ago: "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Part II:

Political systems self-select for people who desire power over others. Artists, scientists and others who don't desire such power don't end up in control because they're not willing to abandon their own life goals to become "leaders." Therefore, the people who end up with power are those who desire power.

Part III:

It's easier to buy influence to eliminate your competition than it is to actually compete in the marketplace.

+rep, this post summed up the thread quite well.

 

[Xerographica]

For my thoughts on the subject see...Anarcho-capitalism vs Civilization.

 

[Pericles]

Exerting effort to acquire necessities and luxuries is more time consuming and less desirable than taking from others if it is justified in the minds of most people. In other words, stealing is easier than working as long as there is no penalty for stealing.

Thread winner - people are fairly rational, if it is easier to steal it, than it is to work for it, guess what happens. Or, as expressed by G. Gordon Liddy - "Of course crime pays, if crime didn't pay, there wouldn't be any."

 

[bolil]

Go take a look in a mirror. A good hard look, and there you will find the answer.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts.

 

[jason43]

Because once the mob realizes they can just elect the people that offer them the most stuff, and businesses figure out they can suckle off the governments teat and fund politicians accordingly, democracies become socialistic and they go bankrupt. See:Western Civilization 1914-now