De-militarize the Police: A List of Demands

[osan]

OK, reform SWAT - absolutely no warrant service (70% OF WHAT THEY DO) with the possible exception of a murder suspect, armed robber, people that are known to have and have used weapons in a crime, places they expect a firefight. use them only for barcade/hostage situations. Operative word is RARELY!

Strongly disagree. It is precisely these brands of qualified exceptions that have lead us down the slippery slope. Firstly, we need no SWAT teams for any reason at all. They should be dissolved in toto. Barring that, they must be employed for nothing but response to an established situation. They NEVER serve warrants because that is not what they are supposed to do and their missions should not be expanded. Ever.

Absolutely no use at public demonstrations. Snipers and people with heavy weapons have no business where people are protesting.

Agreed.

Transparency - every use of a SWAT team goes in the local paper with details of what happened. Then again in a monthly report. and again in a yearly report.
No more masks. Terrorists and criminals wear those things. Anyone doing a home invasion wearing a mask should be an instant walk for whoever shoots them in self defense.

-t

All police documents must be publicly accessible ON DEMAND, no exceptions.

 

[osan]

You dont come to a negotiation asking for what you will settle for.
When you do that, you get whittled down to a fraction of what you started with.

This is basics. If you don't come out swinging for the bleachers, it's not even a negotiation... it's just you getting screwed.

No, at this point the starting point has to be total abolition. If we get whittled down to what's on the graphic then it's a win. But reform cannot be the goal.

Exactly right and dead-center on point.

Can someone rep this for me... can't give to Fishy at this time.

 

[osan]

3 strikes law. The vast majority of officers never discharge their firearm off the range through their career. If a officer discharges their weapon in 3 separate incidents, it's a instant fire and ban from working for any law enforcement agency in the future.

Terrible idea, so sorry. See my alternative, a few posts above.

Maybe water this down to 3 times in a 5-10 year period to accommodate high crime areas. Point being, there are a few trigger happy cops and getting rid of those would go a long way to fixing this situation.

Those "few" trigger-happy cops murdered nearly 500 people last year. I'd say there are a ton of those twitchy bastards roaming freely about. Time for that to come to a grinding and violent halt. Enough already.

 

[osan]

It's a dangerous job and some hoods are worse than others.

Sorry T4, but that is BULLSHIT. Being a cop is, statistically speaking, just about the safest job one could have.

Think about it this way: You get a CCW and carry. Someone tries to rob/kill you and you defend yourself. You used it for it's intended purpose, to defend yourself. Should you be stripped of your right to own firearms.

If you are a cop and on duty, I am am tempted to think perhaps yes. British cops carry no guns... though that appears to be changing (for the worse). Police are the ONLY people around whom the presence of a firearm makes me uncomfortable.

 

[tod evans]

Police are the only group of Americans who have proven time and again that they can't be trusted with ordnance...

It really doesn't matter why and it doesn't matter that there's only a few bad apples, the citizenry is in jeopardy due to armed LEO's.

Expecting the citizenry to pay for their oppression is nuts.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Exactly right and dead-center on point.

Can someone rep this for me... can't give to Fishy at this time.

covered ya

-t

 

[Christian Liberty]

Sorry T4, but that is BULLSHIT. Being a cop is, statistically speaking, just about the safest job one could have.

Although this is true as a grand total, I suspect that there are some areas of the country where it is substantially worse than the average. Of course, that doesn't actually matter.

 

[Gumba of Liberty]

Exactly right and dead-center on point.

Can someone rep this for me... can't give to Fishy at this time.

I agree with you but this is not a negotiation. I'm not trying to bargain with TPTB or the police or the mayor or anyone. I'm trying to convince and educate fellow Americans, most of whom are dumbed-down sheep, of the ways the law places police above the law. Qualified immunity and civil forfeiture are not in the vocabulary of the average American. I want to change that. I want them to understand the US Code that enables the police to circumvent the law. I am not about to propose to a bunch of simpletons that the police should be abolished. Trying to convince these people that we don't need police is not going to work. Trust me, I have tried.

We don't need a majority to prevail but it would be nice if the minority that was trying to regain their liberty would try to work together on an activist forum. Just my 2 cents.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

I agree with you but this is not a negotiation. I'm not trying to bargain with TPTB or the police or the mayor or anyone. I'm trying to convince and educate fellow Americans, most of whom are dumbed-down sheep, of the ways the law places police above the law. Qualified immunity and civil forfeiture are not in the vocabulary of the average American. I want to change that. I want them to understand the US Code that enables the police to circumvent the law. I am not about to propose to a bunch of simpletons that the police should be abolished. Trying to convince these people that we don't need police is not going to work. Trust me, I have tried.

We don't need a majority to prevail but it would be nice if the minority that was trying to regain their liberty would try to work together on an activist forum. Just my 2 cents.

There are a number of cable shows on our side as well as reporters. Get it in the media cycle and it should go viral.

Also a campaign of ppl calling C-SPAN and all the conservative talk shows.

-t

 

[Jamesiv1]

Just for a second imagine that my list of demands when viral. It was up on drudge, it was plastered all over Facebook, Amash introduced a Federal Bill, & State legislators followed suit do you think the LEOs would think we were playing games?

dood. you need to change your bong water.

 

[Gumba of Liberty]

dood. you need to change your bong water.

Dream big or go home. I don't care about my list of demands reaching the media for personal reasons, all I want is a list of concrete ideas, written down, that will limit the police in a meaningful way. Looks like I came to the wrong place.

 

[Spikender]

I don't see the two situations as similar.

First of all, I'm not talking about denying anyone their rights to do anything. Disarming someone is violating their rights. Firing them is not. Of course, government police departments are in and of themselves violations of rights Which leads to my second point. Cops are aggressors, period. US law requires them to be. They aren't innocent. Ever. Period.

Mind you, I can imagine situations where a cop stands by and does nothing when someone is about to get killed solely because they might get fired, but the thing is, they do this anyway. Cops aren't there to protect us pretty much ever. So, I don't really see this as a valid concern. I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario in which an American cop is ACTUALLY justified in doing anything.


Even local cops have to enforce "the law" as it is written, no matter what it is. You sound like I probably sounded a year ago. But every day I get more and more anti-cop as the logic processes itself in my mind. Its time to completely dispel the "cops are good guys" myths. Cops are bad. Period. Simply because of what they are REQUIRED to do as part of their jobs.

At last, FreedomFanatic has fully come over to the Light Side.

Dream big or go home. I don't care about my list of demands reaching the media for personal reasons, all I want is a list of concrete ideas, written down, that will limit the police in a meaningful way. Looks like I came to the wrong place.

I personally like your idea and will share your original image from the first post on Facebook.

 

[TheTexan]

Well, all this de-militarizing talk started with the riots, right? So maybe the solution isn't de-militarization, but rather fixing the root of the problem: the rioting.

There's many ways we can get rid of the rioting:
-Better riot dispersion equipment (such as LRAD's)
-Stronger laws against rioters and illegal protests
-Nip protests in the bud before they grow into full-scale riots

 

[acptulsa]

First let me say I love this idea. I love it. But I have some notions about the execution of it.

Let's not do a laundry list. Pop them out one or two (related) demands at a time. For one thing, some of these ideas require some explaining. A one liner won't necessarily do. For another, this thing runs the risk of becoming a flash-bang itself. Popping a couple out a week over the course of a few months will give it time to grow and allow it to gain momentum. It will allow the conversation to build to a climax, and it will sustain it long enough to ensure it sticks with people. It will prevent some good ideas from getting lost in the crowd as people latch onto slightly better ideas and focus on them. Give each demand a chance to enjoy its own focus.

OK, reform SWAT - absolutely no warrant service (70% OF WHAT THEY DO) with the possible exception of a murder suspect, armed robber, people that are known to have and have used weapons in a crime, places they expect a firefight. use them only for barcade/hostage situations. Operative word is RARELY!
Absolutely no use at public demonstrations. Snipers and people with heavy weapons have no business where people are protesting.
Seriously BAN flashbangs. 4 children have been hurt by those in recent years. 1 dead, 3 seriously messed up. People get behind protecting children.
There are 2 main types, one burns really hot and frequently burns peoples houses down.
If cops raid the wrong house - seriously - jail time!
Transparency - every use of a SWAT team goes in the local paper with details of what happened. Then again in a monthly report. and again in a yearly report.
No more masks. Terrorists and criminals wear those things. Anyone doing a home invasion wearing a mask should be an instant walk for whoever shoots them in self defense.

-t

No federal funding. None. Local accountability is paramount. No federal carrots for DUI checkpoints. No military surplus. Members of a community know what they need; Washington does not.

No FBI action at all without local participation. The FBI is for investigation, not enforcement per se. Let it remain so. No law enforcement agency can ever burnish its integrity by violating the law of the land in the form of the Ninth and Tenth Amendments.

No hiding SWAT teams behind regional conglomerations, and absolutely no corporate SWAT teams...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...e-corporations-immune-from-open-records-laws/

If a jurisdiction feels the need for SWAT teams and cannot afford them, let them train regular duty officers to become SWAT team members as required. This is the way they were initially organized, and it works.

Absolutely no masks.

Abolish unions! Take on the FOP! No layer of extra-governmental bureaucracy between them and the citizens who pay them.

Allow citizens to sue individual officers for malpractice and/or malfeasance. Make every single officer personally responsible for ensuring that a raid is conducted at the correct address listed on the warrant. We are held personally accountable for obeying the law; let them be held personally accountable for obeying the Constitution.

No murder charges or assault charges for attacks on dumb animals, no matter what it costs to train them.

No charging criminals for police incompetence. If a police helicopter and a news helicopter are covering a police chase, and they collide, this is something beyond the control of the person being chased, and the accountability should land elsewhere. It is not the fault of criminals if police officers are incompetent.

No code enforcement. No one is going to pack heat because they're running their lemonade stand without a license. Let other bureaucrats write those tickets.

As long as we're shooting the moon and negotiating later, don't just require body cameras, require that they broadcast over the 'net at all times, in real time.

Restore Miranda warnings, and don't just prevent cops from lying to people, but District Attorneys (and their staffs) as well.

 

[Gumba of Liberty]

At last, FreedomFanatic has fully come over to the Light Side.



I personally like your idea and will share your original image from the first post on Facebook.

I appreciate it, thanks.

 

[Spikender]

I appreciate it, thanks.

Posted it a few hours ago and I've already got two shares and three likes from just my Fedbook friends that I know in real life. Glad to see that they are in agreement with me, was surprised to see them jump on it like that. I don't usually share political stuff on my Fedbook because I don't usually go on it. I shared it publicly so it could get more visibility.

Hopefully it'll spread through the shares and we'll get this baby rolling.

 

[Gumba of Liberty]

First let me say I love this idea. I love it. But I have some notions about the execution of it.

Let's not do a laundry list. Pop them out one or two (related) demands at a time. For one thing, some of these ideas require some explaining. A one liner won't necessarily do. For another, this thing runs the risk of becoming a flash-bang itself. Popping a couple out a week over the course of a few months will give it time to grow and allow it to gain momentum. It will allow the conversation to build to a climax, and it will sustain it long enough to ensure it sticks with people. It will prevent some good ideas from getting lost in the crowd as people latch onto slightly better ideas and focus on them. Give each demand a chance to enjoy its own focus.



No federal funding. None. Local accountability is paramount. No federal carrots for DUI checkpoints. No military surplus. Members of a community know what they need; Washington does not.


No FBI action at all without local participation. The FBI is for investigation, not enforcement per se. Let it remain so. No law enforcement agency can ever burnish its integrity by violating the law of the land in the form of the Ninth and Tenth Amendments.

No hiding SWAT teams behind regional conglomerations, and absolutely no corporate SWAT teams...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...e-corporations-immune-from-open-records-laws/

If a jurisdiction feels the need for SWAT teams and cannot afford them, let them train regular duty officers to become SWAT team members as required. This is the way they were initially organized, and it works.

Absolutely no masks.

Abolish unions! Take on the FOP! No layer of extra-governmental bureaucracy between them and the citizens who pay them.

Allow citizens to sue individual officers for malpractice and/or malfeasance. Make every single officer personally responsible for ensuring that a raid is conducted at the correct address listed on the warrant. We are held personally accountable for obeying the law; let them be held personally accountable for obeying the Constitution.

No murder charges or assault charges for attacks on dumb animals, no matter what it costs to train them.

No charging criminals for police incompetence. If a police helicopter and a news helicopter are covering a police chase, and they collide, this is something beyond the control of the person being chased, and the accountability should land elsewhere. It is not the fault of criminals if police officers are incompetent.

No code enforcement. No one is going to pack heat because they're running their lemonade stand without a license. Let other bureaucrats write those tickets.

As long as we're shooting the moon and negotiating later, don't just require body cameras, require that they broadcast over the 'net at all times, in real time.

Restore Miranda warnings, and don't just prevent cops from lying to people, but District Attorneys (and their staffs) as well.

Alright now were getting somewhere. Which two do you think we should do first? After we've decided Ill create it and share.

 

[osan]

Looks like I came to the wrong place.

Why? I gave you a fair to middling list of additions and mods and didn't even charge you for them.

how's about you edit and post a revised version? I am all for such a list.

 

[acptulsa]

Alright now were getting somewhere. Which two do you think we should do first? After we've decided Ill create it and share.

A good one, but not the best one. Save that for last.

I'm not sure if it's wiser to use the same background for all, as a sort of signature, or change it up. But a public domain image of Martin Milner and Kent McCord in their Adam 12 costumes would be a good one. Alternating between that and a SWAT platoon in their robbers' masks could be powerful.

 

[brushfire]

Abolishing qualified immunity would be HUGE. Having the ability to hold all government entities (officials, politicians, officers, etc) liable for their personal actions is paramount.