De-militarize the Police: A List of Demands

[Gumba of Liberty]

I don't know who else has read the article Kareem Abdul Jabbar wrote on Ferguson (see here: http://time.com/3132635/ferguson-coming-race-war-class-warfare/ ) but he insists, and I agree, that we not only need to express our anger over police shootings and misconduct but we also have to articulate what we want changed. The only way to really change the discussion is to be specific about what we want and present it to the population in a way they can absorb and understand.

In that vain, I have taken it upon myself to create a .jpg of the (first round) of laws I want changed in regards to police militarization and police brutality. I wanted to be specific while at the same time conveying the message in as few words as possible.

My only request is that if you agree with my statement that you spread this to the farthest reaches of social media, to every friend, relative and acquaintance you have. Send it to every celebrity you like, to every activist from every corner of the political spectrum. Send it to through facebook, twitter, snapchat, pintrest, to the daily paul, anti-war.com, and drudge, anything that can get the word and and spread the message. Thanks guys and if you have anything promoting a free society you would like spread across the blogosphere, let me know and I'll do my part.

For Liberty,

Gumba

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Ban flash bangs
Abolish no-knock raids
Abolish swat teams
Recall all military equipment gifted to police forces
Any officer that shoots a dog or other pet gets an automatic 6 months in jail if they are not torn up by that same animal.
Mandatory prison sentence for any officer that shoots someone holding a game controller, TV switcher, electric drill, squirt gun, etc.
Any officer that shoots a civilian is to be charged with murder or attempted murder and treated like a civilian who has done the same till things get worked out. That means jail, not paid administrative leave (vacation)
Automatic jail time for busting kids lemonade stands, bake sales, etc.

anyone else...

-t

 

[Christian Liberty]

Just abolish the police. I realize that even a couple weeks ago I said that politicians shouldn't get bogged down into advocating for that but more and more I think its more an absolute essential than an ancap ideal. Part of it has been talking to conservatives (mostly theonomists) who are against the existence of police. It isn't just ancaps.

 

[Gumba of Liberty]

Completely agree with you but I think we have a real shot at reform if we stick to provisions that the majority of Americans would support. Americans still think SWAT Teams are kickass. I don't know if it could go viral with those provisions. Let's debate it all but baby steps boys.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Completely agree with you but I think we have a real shot at reform if we stick to provisions that the majority of Americans would support. Americans still think SWAT Teams are kickass. I don't know if it could go viral with those provisions. Let's debate it all but baby steps boys.

I'm really getting sick of playing games personally. Mind you, I'm all for anything that would make an improvement, but I'm getting to the point where I'm willing to tell anyone that I have a problem with police and not really care what they think about it.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

OK, reform SWAT - absolutely no warrant service (70% OF WHAT THEY DO) with the possible exception of a murder suspect, armed robber, people that are known to have and have used weapons in a crime, places they expect a firefight. use them only for barcade/hostage situations. Operative word is RARELY!
Absolutely no use at public demonstrations. Snipers and people with heavy weapons have no business where people are protesting.
Seriously BAN flashbangs. 4 children have been hurt by those in recent years. 1 dead, 3 seriously messed up. People get behind protecting children.
There are 2 main types, one burns really hot and frequently burns peoples houses down.
If cops raid the wrong house - seriously - jail time!
Transparency - every use of a SWAT team goes in the local paper with details of what happened. Then again in a monthly report. and again in a yearly report.
No more masks. Terrorists and criminals wear those things. Anyone doing a home invasion wearing a mask should be an instant walk for whoever shoots them in self defense.

-t

 

[Gumba of Liberty]

I'm really getting sick of playing games personally. Mind you, I'm all for anything that would make an improvement, but I'm getting to the point where I'm willing to tell anyone that I have a problem with police and not really care what they think about it.

Just for a second imagine that my list of demands when viral. It was up on drudge, it was plastered all over Facebook, Amash introduced a Federal Bill, & State legislators followed suit do you think the LEOs would think we were playing games?

 

[fisharmor]

You dont come to a negotiation asking for what you will settle for.
When you do that, you get whittled down to a fraction of what you started with.

This is basics. If you don't come out swinging for the bleachers, it's not even a negotiation... it's just you getting screwed.

No, at this point the starting point has to be total abolition. If we get whittled down to what's on the graphic then it's a win. But reform cannot be the goal.

 

[Christian Liberty]

You dont come to a negotiation asking for what you will settle for.
When you do that, you get whittled down to a fraction of what you started with.

This is basics. If you don't come out swinging for the bleachers, it's not even a negotiation... it's just you getting screwed.

No, at this point the starting point has to be total abolition. If we get whittled down to what's on the graphic then it's a win. But reform cannot be the goal.

Good point. This is an argument I've used on my conservative (Rand Paul type) father. I told him he should support the most radical libertarians he can for office because then the compromises might be somewhere close to what he wants.

This is part of my concern with Rand Paul (though I do support him.) If he gets into the Presidency, I do wonder what his compromises are going to look like once he gets into office.

 

[Gumba of Liberty]

You dont come to a negotiation asking for what you will settle for.
When you do that, you get whittled down to a fraction of what you started with.

This is basics. If you don't come out swinging for the bleachers, it's not even a negotiation... it's just you getting screwed.

No, at this point the starting point has to be total abolition. If we get whittled down to what's on the graphic then it's a win. But reform cannot be the goal.

I agree and I will support you with your efforts if and when you reveal them. If you cannot support my ideas out of principle I understand but I'm only here to help spread the message of liberty. Conflict with fellow liberty lovers is not my goal.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

3 strikes law. The vast majority of officers never discharge their firearm off the range through their career. If a officer discharges their weapon in 3 separate incidents, it's a instant fire and ban from working for any law enforcement agency in the future.

Maybe water this down to 3 times in a 5-10 year period to accommodate high crime areas. Point being, there are a few trigger happy cops and getting rid of those would go a long way to fixing this situation.

cops kill 500 civilians a year in this country. As anyone who's a regular on this forum know, these are all too often raiding the wrong house or people calling for help with a mentally disabled child.

I have similar thoughts as to doctors who screw up as an alternative to malpractice insurance.

-t

 

[Christian Liberty]

3 strikes law. The vast majority of officers never discharge their firearm off the range through their career. If a officer discharges their weapon in 3 separate incidents, it's a instant fire and ban from working for any law enforcement agency in the future.

Maybe water this down to 3 times in a 5-10 year period to accommodate high crime areas. Point being, there are a few trigger happy cops and getting rid of those would go a long way to fixing this situation.

I have similar thoughts as to doctors who screw up as an alternative to malpractice insurance.

-t

3 times? 3?

It should be one and done, at best. Better yet, fire them all now and call it a day.

Every day I grow more and more anti-police, to the point where its driving me nuts...

 

[pcosmar]

Just abolish the police.

Though I agree with that wholeheartedly.. I do not believe that will pass.

Though I will support putting them on a very short leash. Abolish immunity for their actions and hold them accountable.

Ending the War on Drugs would go a long way to eliminating the problems.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Though I agree with that wholeheartedly.. I do not believe that will pass.

Though I will support putting them on a very short leash. Abolish immunity for their actions and hold them accountable.

Ending the War on Drugs would go a long way to eliminating the problems.

Indeed.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

3 times? 3?

It should be one and done, at best. Better yet, fire them all now and call it a day.

Every day I grow more and more anti-police, to the point where its driving me nuts...

If it's a bad shoot, I'd be OK with 1 strike and you;re out. But really, 3. It's a dangerous job and some hoods are worse than others. Think about it this way: You get a CCW and carry. Someone tries to rob/kill you and you defend yourself. You used it for it's intended purpose, to defend yourself. Should you be stripped of your right to own firearms.

I mimic your anti-police feelings but a lot of that is from being here and reading all the horror stories. From seeing Ferguson cops going bat shit and waving AR['s in protesters faces to raiding the wrong house and killing the occupents. High on a power trip. I used to donate to the police benevolent fund. Till I found out that they were hired telemarketers instead of cops and their family members volunteering to do this work. (I have slight negative feelings for RP doing the same - use supporters!) also, I found out that my donations were being used for gun control lobbying I also have had one bad experience where I got screwed to the tune of $125,000 and a trashed house and a lot of misery. They realised they made a mistake when they kept getting called to my place for domestic violence calls and I was barred from living in my own house. Other than that, I actually think rather highly of our local cops. They display good restraint. Only ran into one what was on a power trip and wanted to go Rambo. Trying to kick in my door as I told her I didn't want to talk to them and was closing and locking my door. Did fuck up the door though. Yeah, and a false arrest. I decided not to sue them.

Also, I'm a former EMT. Cops and medics - they cover each others backs...

-t

 

[Christian Liberty]

If it's a bad shoot, I'd be OK with 1 strike and you;re out. But really, 3. It's a dangerous job and some hoods are worse than others. Think about it this way: You get a CCW and carry. Someone tries to rob/kill you and you defend yourself. You used it for it's intended purpose, to defend yourself. Should you be stripped of your right to own firearms.

I don't see the two situations as similar.

First of all, I'm not talking about denying anyone their rights to do anything. Disarming someone is violating their rights. Firing them is not. Of course, government police departments are in and of themselves violations of rights Which leads to my second point. Cops are aggressors, period. US law requires them to be. They aren't innocent. Ever. Period.

Mind you, I can imagine situations where a cop stands by and does nothing when someone is about to get killed solely because they might get fired, but the thing is, they do this anyway. Cops aren't there to protect us pretty much ever. So, I don't really see this as a valid concern. I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario in which an American cop is ACTUALLY justified in doing anything.

I mimic your anti-police feelings but a lot of that is from being here and reading all the horror stories. From seeing Ferguson cops going bat shit and waving AR['s in protesters faces to raiding the wrong house and killing the occupents. High on a power trip. I used to donate to the police benevolent fund. Till I found out that they were hired telemarketers instead of cops and their family members volunteering to do this work. (I have slight negative feelings for RP doing the same - use supporters!) also, I found out that my donations were being used for gun control lobbying I also have had one bad experience where I got screwed to the tune of $125,000 and a trashed house and a lot of misery. They realised they made a mistake when they kept getting called to my place for domestic violence calls and I was barred from living in my own house. Other than that, I actually think rather highly of our local cops. They display good restraint. Only ran into one what was on a power trip and wanted to go Rambo. Trying to kick in my door as I told her I didn't want to talk to them and was closing and locking my door. Did fuck up the door though. Yeah, and a false arrest. I decided not to sue them.

Also, I'm a former EMT. Cops and medics - they cover each others backs...

Even local cops have to enforce "the law" as it is written, no matter what it is. You sound like I probably sounded a year ago. But every day I get more and more anti-cop as the logic processes itself in my mind. Its time to completely dispel the "cops are good guys" myths. Cops are bad. Period. Simply because of what they are REQUIRED to do as part of their jobs.

 

[presence]

NEVER MUZZLE NON VIOLENT SUSPECT

I remember being covered in little red lasers and ordered "Put the bong down and come out with your hands up!" by a pack of goons with fingers on the trigger. Absolutely unacceptable use of force.

 

[osan]

I don't know who else has read the article Kareem Abdul Jabbar wrote on Ferguson (see here: http://time.com/3132635/ferguson-coming-race-war-class-warfare/ ) but he insists, and I agree, that we not only need to express our anger over police shootings and misconduct but we also have to articulate what we want changed. The only way to really change the discussion is to be specific about what we want and present it to the population in a way they can absorb and understand.

In that vain, I have taken it upon myself to create a .jpg of the (first round) of laws I want changed in regards to police militarization and police brutality. I wanted to be specific while at the same time conveying the message in as few words as possible.

My only request is that if you agree with my statement that you spread this to the farthest reaches of social media, to every friend, relative and acquaintance you have. Send it to every celebrity you like, to every activist from every corner of the political spectrum. Send it to through facebook, twitter, snapchat, pintrest, to the daily paul, anti-war.com, and drudge, anything that can get the word and and spread the message. Thanks guys and if you have anything promoting a free society you would like spread across the blogosphere, let me know and I'll do my part.

For Liberty,

Gumba

OK, a few things.

ETA: Define "Standard Disciplinary Response (SDR): Immediate dismissal as a police officer. Felony charges filed and upon conviction, loss of all benefits and pension, ineligibility to hold any public position whether elected, appointed, or hired for life anywhere in the United States, its territories, or protectorates, entry into a "violator of the public trust" database for 10 years immediately or after lapse of any sentence that may be imposed upon conviction. Conviction will carry treble hazards for police as the equivalent charges do for non-police. That is, if a "civilian" would earn a 5-year sentence for a given conviction, a cop so convicted would earn 15 years at hard labor at the military barracks at Ft. Leavenworth KS.

Remove "intentionally" from the fourth item.

Ban all military weapons including automatics, armored vehicles, body armor, grenades of ANY type, including CS, smoke, and others.

Ban militarized tactics and training of all forms for any reason whatsoever.

ETA: Any use of such tactics in the course of on-duty operations results in SDR.

Any discharge of a cop's weapon FOR ANY REASON not on a police range results in automatic 90-day furlough without pay while the occurrence is investigated by third party agents. Unjustified discharge results in SDR and possible felony charges.

Cops surrender their duty weapons when going off duty, such weapons to be stored at the department armory. Any cop discovered with a duty weapon of ANY SORT while off-duty is automatically dismissed, loses benefits and pension, and is charged with felony possession of a weapon and stolen property. No exceptions. Cops are INDIVIDUALLY responsible for the disposition of all weapons entrusted them while on duty and for returning them to safe storage before going off-duty.

ETA: Any cop found complicit in covering the discovery of such weapons violations face the same penalties as those who committed them.

ETA: Any cop or group thereof acting to in any way cover up the violations of other cops face SDR, and at minimum share the same fate as those who committed the actual violations.

Any finding of unjustified violations of the rights of person or property automatically result in SDR.

Item 6 should insert "personally and individually" after "officers".

Positive drug tests result in SDR

All warrants are to be served in the proper manner. Any cop serving a no-knock, complicit in its service, or knowingly allowing such service without interfering will face SDR.


SDR: an acronym we hope all cops will grow to fear and hate more than their mommies. Let them quake in their boots at the very thought of committing any act that might result in SDR. The time for this is upon us. Spread the word.

 

[osan]

Just abolish the police.

Not going to happen any time before Jesus' return, so this gets us nowhere.

 

[osan]

Completely agree with you but I think we have a real shot at reform if we stick to provisions that the majority of Americans would support. Americans still think SWAT Teams are kickass. I don't know if it could go viral with those provisions. Let's debate it all but baby steps boys.

I disagree. Strike while the iron is hot, and it is very hot at the moment. Police should ideally be abolished, but we know that will not happen. We must therefore endeavor to take the biggest swag at them possible. Go huge. Asking for pittances will get you less than that. If you really want $500 for your car, ask $1000 and work down from there because if you ask $500 you are almost guaranteed to get less.

This is NOT the time to be timidly cautious because those bastards have us against a wall and it is damned past time to fight them like mad dogs.