Damnit. Did I just lose a friend to Christian Anarchy?

[Jake Ralston]

"Look at the lords law and you will see representative govt., justice, unalienable rights. I sense what you are talking about is a divisive morality which is why I said moral clarity is needed. Sorry bro. , but according to the lord HIS law is the higher law because of the fact (objectively speaking) that all mans laws are subject to God's laws not the other way around...if he is the Alpha and the Omega then would he not be the beginning and the end of all good things? Look at how moses was led by god to establish his people israel. The lord used jethro a midian priest to say to moses, one human leader is bad, he said choose from among you men of courage, such as fear god, who love the truth and hate covetousness. And he also said choose from among you leaders of tens, fifties, hundreds, and thousands. What is that? Tens (city), fifties (county), hundreds (state), and thousands ( federal)... that is why the lord is true to who he is because his truth applies to all aspects of life, that is why the scripture also says that he is lord of the living and the dead....."

That's the last comment he made on my facebook. I've been workin this guy over on Ron Paul for a while now, and every time I feel i'm close, he puts up something like this. Where do I go from here?

Is all hope lost, because it seems like he is just stuck on this whole Christian Anarchy-type school of thought.

 

[hubze]

Ya I just say lead by doing. Most people who know you and see what you are doing may ask eventually, but you cannot save him as he seems to already be saved...

 

[jmdrake]

I'm not sure why you think you "lost" him. Ron Paul is a Christian and some argue he's secretly an anarchist. So what exactly is the problem?

 

[Cowlesy]

STOP posting these threads to Grassroots Central.

 

[mit26chell]

I'm not sure why you think you "lost" him. Ron Paul is a Christian and some argue he's secretly an anarchist. So what exactly is the problem?

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive? Paul is a Christian, yes, but if you read Liberty Defined, you will see he is an anarcho-capitalist in just about every sense.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Your friend is partially right. But the Bible doesn't speak of our rights being unalienable, if this was the case, God would not have the right over His creation to make some pots for noble use and some for common use (since the right of the creature could never be made alien to him by anything).


The Bible speaks of imputed rights, not natural or innate or any other kind of rights. We have rights because God declares them (negatively in the Ten Commandments) and imputes them to us by His command alone. This is the God-centered view as opposed to the man-centered view.

But, your friend is right that God's law is above any man-made law. Law only finds its proper basis in God's Word. No government can be the lord of my conscience, only Christ can. So therefore no government can bind my conscience with any decree that I don't already recognize as being in God's law (such as the command not to murder).


(also...what does "losing" your friend to anarchism mean?)

 

[Jake Ralston]

STOP posting these threads to Grassroots Central.

Huh? Listen pal, when was the last time I posted one of "these" threads in GC?

 

[LibertyEagle]

I'm not sure why you think you "lost" him. Ron Paul is a Christian and some argue he's secretly an anarchist. So what exactly is the problem?

And some are dumbasses who refuse to believe Ron Paul when he clearly said NO, he was not. Many of these some don't give one crap about Ron Paul getting elected; they are here for one reason and one reason only, to recruit for their cause. http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/8184.aspx

 

[CaptainAmerica]

"Look at the lords law and you will see representative govt., justice, unalienable rights. I sense what you are talking about is a divisive morality which is why I said moral clarity is needed. Sorry bro. , but according to the lord HIS law is the higher law because of the fact (objectively speaking) that all mans laws are subject to God's laws not the other way around...if he is the Alpha and the Omega then would he not be the beginning and the end of all good things? Look at how moses was led by god to establish his people israel. The lord used jethro a midian priest to say to moses, one human leader is bad, he said choose from among you men of courage, such as fear god, who love the truth and hate covetousness. And he also said choose from among you leaders of tens, fifties, hundreds, and thousands. What is that? Tens (city), fifties (county), hundreds (state), and thousands ( federal)... that is why the lord is true to who he is because his truth applies to all aspects of life, that is why the scripture also says that he is lord of the living and the dead....."

That's the last comment he made on my facebook. I've been workin this guy over on Ron Paul for a while now, and every time I feel i'm close, he puts up something like this. Where do I go from here?

Is all hope lost, because it seems like he is just stuck on this whole Christian Anarchy-type school of thought.

let him go his own way....

 

[jmdrake]

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive? Paul is a Christian, yes, but if you read Liberty Defined, you will see he is an anarcho-capitalist in just about every sense.

Ummm....I didn't say the where mutually exclusive. The OP said he "lost" his friend to "Christian anarchism". I'm saying Dr. Paul isn't incompatible with Christian anarchism. Not unless I'm r-e-a-l-l-y not understanding the term.

 

[jmdrake]

And some act like dumbasses.

True. But that's beside the point. The OP is trying to reach out to a friend who is a Christian anarchist. Whether Dr. Paul is or isn't, I don't think he's ideas are incompatible with Christian anarchism. And from the OP it sounds like his friend believes that God's law is really supreme so let's keep the secular government as small as possible so that it doesn't get in the way. He kinda sounds like Theocrat.

 

[jmdrake]

(also...what does "losing" your friend to anarchism mean?)

^^That's what I'm trying to figure out. We're missing the context, but Jake's friend's ideas don't sound incompatible with Dr. Paul's. Maybe there's a communication gap going on here?

 

[dannno]

Huh? Listen pal, when was the last time I posted one of "these" threads in GC?

Don't call him pal, buddy..

But seriously, did you not know that all these threads get tweeted?

 

[LibertyEagle]

True. But that's beside the point. The OP is trying to reach out to a friend who is a Christian anarchist. Whether Dr. Paul is or isn't, I don't think he's ideas are incompatible with Christian anarchism. And from the OP it sounds like his friend believes that God's law is really supreme so let's keep the secular government as small as possible so that it doesn't get in the way. He kinda sounds like Theocrat.

I get your point.

I see red when anyone calls Ron Paul something that he has clearly stated that he is not.

 

[Esoteric]

it seems like he is just stuck on this whole Christian Anarchy-type school of thought.

If so, at least he's got it half right.

 

[Jake Ralston]

I'm not sure why you think you "lost" him. Ron Paul is a Christian and some argue he's secretly an anarchist. So what exactly is the problem?

Well I didn't lose him as a friend, of course. But just trying to steer him away from Anarchy and towards Ron Paul. He hasn't even claimed Christian Anarchy by title, so I don't know for sure if he would agree with that. I'm just drawing my own conclusions based on what he's said over the last few weeks. I am so close to getting him for Ron Paul though, just need a little help.

Don't call him pal, buddy..

But seriously, did you not know that all these threads get tweeted?

Who are you? And yes, stuff from here gets tweeted. Big deal. Is some future voter going to take offense that Ron Paul isn't an Christian-Anarchist?



Anyways, thread-derailment posts aside. Does anyone have a few talking points I should hit to get him towards supporting Ron Paul? I'm not so good with the religious aspects and tying that into Rons message.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Anyways, thread-derailment posts aside. Does anyone have a few talking points I should hit to get him towards supporting Ron Paul? I'm not so good with the religious aspects and tying that into Rons message.

Talking points....I don't know. If he is interested in reading a phenomenal book about Christian Libertarianism, tell him to check out Ron Paul's former chief of staff John Robbins. His book "Freedom and Capitalism" is probably one of the best statements of Christian Libertarianism around today imho. I have benefited immensely from it and other things he has written.

 

[Rothbardian Girl]

People here get upset when the thread titles have buzzwords like 'anarchy' or '9/11 truth' or 'NWO' here. They're afraid people are going to stop supporting Ron Paul just because a thread title was given a poorly chosen name, I guess. Anyway, I can't help you out with your query because I wouldn't know about trying to justify minarchism.

Good luck! Usually if you're a principled anarchist you don't really go back to accepting the state. You may want to let him know that Ron Paul would be the best choice because he would defend his right to essentially live in anarchy, and that RP is the most principled politician around. If he doesn't believe participating in the system is a good thing, then there is probably no way to reach him.